Applying to both MD and DO simultaneously? Pros/Cons?

[87138]

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Let me just begin by apologizing for the more-than-likely newbie question, but what are the pros/cons to applying to both MD and DO schools at the same time? I will be taking the MCAT for the first time this August and will have pretty much already filled out my AMCAS without knowing my scores. I certainly don't meant to knock DOs, and I definitely don't want this to turn into another MD vs. DO thread, I'm just wondering about the actual process and if this is doable and what the pros and cons may be. I really have no idea at this point how I might do on the MCATs, but I do really want to get into a medical school, and feel like applying to both might help cover all the bases.

 

[MoosePilot]

Pros: increased chance of acceptance
Cons: extra paperwork, greater cost, possibility of being accepted somewhere you don't really want to go (not a problem for me, but some complain of this every year)

 

[S@xplayer]

Pros: already mentioned; just make sure you are 100 percent honest in your reasoning to do both because the interviewers (especially the DO ones) will ask you why both degrees.

Cons: Well, hinted at above, *some* DO schools came off to be as being only set on having applicants who didn't apply to MD schools. This certainly is NOT the case most places. Just be sure you know and can answer why Do or why MD.

Biggest CON: DO schools have an insane fee to hold your spot upon acceptance, and a short time frame to pay this high fee. If you interview early for DO spots before MD spots, you may end up spending 3k or so just to hold spots before you even know where you will go. My advice; decide your favorite schools pre-interview as best as possible. Stretch out the DO interviews as far as you can, if you need to hold off on them for other MD interviews since it is costly to hold spots for a DO school. ******** This is not to suggest holding off DO schools because you would rather go to an MD school, but rather I am suggesting that if one of your higher ranked schools is a MD school, then you will want to interview there before the DO school, because the DO school is likely to get back to you fast and want a payment fast to secure your spot in their upcoming class*********

 

[jbone]

Let me just begin by apologizing for the more-than-likely newbie question, but what are the pros/cons to applying to both MD and DO schools at the same time? I will be taking the MCAT for the first time this August and will have pretty much already filled out my AMCAS without knowing my scores. I certainly don't meant to knock DOs, and I definitely don't want this to turn into another MD vs. DO thread, I'm just wondering about the actual process and if this is doable and what the pros and cons may be. I really have no idea at this point how I might do on the MCATs, but I do really want to get into a medical school, and feel like applying to both might help cover all the bases.

No, this is a great question. 👍 I applied to both DO and MD schools this year and the results have been wonderful 😀 . I really learned a lot about both sides and discovered that many DO and MD schools are great. DO schools were much better than I expected and actually had some really nice facilities and faculty (DMU, AZCOM, CCOM etc). So in a way, I was able to make my own opinions about the allopathic vs. osteopathic approach. It was nice seeing it for myself and not having to listen to someone who has no idea what the hell they are talking about 😕 👎 . Just repeating what they have heard from their brothers-mothers-uncles-mailman 🙄 . It is expensive (cost me a fortune), and time consuming (apps and interviews), but it really helped me develop my own opinions and desires for the future. Good luck. Like I said, (Moose too) if you can afford it, it can't hurt...only help.
And who knows, you might be surprised at what you will find out there.
Keep us posted. 👍

 

[jbone]

Biggest CON: DO schools have an insane fee to hold your spot upon acceptance, and a short time frame to pay this high fee. If you interview early for DO spots before MD spots, you may end up spending 3k or so just to hold spots before you even know where you will go.

While this is true for one school (WVSOM), others were pretty small like DMU, CCOM, AZCOM etc. $250-500 (and they allowed me at least 3 months before this was due).
But yes, some DO schools want a real financial commitment. Sucks. 👎
Good point but not all inclusive. 😀

 

[MoosePilot]

Pros: already mentioned; just make sure you are 100 percent honest in your reasoning to do both because the interviewers (especially the DO ones) will ask you why both degrees.

Cons: Well, hinted at above, *some* DO schools came off to be as being only set on having applicants who didn't apply to MD schools. This certainly is NOT the case most places. Just be sure you know and can answer why Do or why MD.

I wouldn't mention you'd also applied MD unless specifically asked. Basically I wouldn't admit to it until I had to be dishonest not to. Then I would emphasize that I primarily wanted to be a physician and specifically, why I wanted to be a DO.

I was interested in either path, because I think who I am is the primary determinant of what kind of doc I'll be.

 

[Rafa]

Yup. TMI (too much information) seems to be one of those things that can sink the proverbial battleship at an interview. We should make a sticky (or at least a list) of things to *not* mention at interviews, unless asked otherwise.

For example:

Information not to volunteer...

"I have already been accepted at X University."

"I am applying to both MD and DO schools."

"I am a re-applicant."

"In the end, my decision will be determined by financial aid."

"I would prefer to stay in/out of state."

"I'm not actually fluent in the languages I marked on the AMCAS."

Etc. etc. I don't want to turn this into the joke thread below (things not to say at interviews), but there are certainly serious things that, while sounding harmless (or even helpful) should not, under any circumstances, be volunteered to the interviewer. Remember: still waters run deep 🙂

 

[Fermata]

Biggest pro: Higher chance of getting accepted

Biggest con: Cost of $Texas

 

[Pewl]

There are times when I really think that DO schools need to accept their role as a backup choice for most of the applicants in today's society. I mean, why the hell should they care if they're a backup?! All that matters is that they train physicians who meet requirements and pass the board.

There's no shame in being a backup. Let's face it, for example, UC Irvine and UC Riverside are backups to UCLA and UC Berkeley. It's simply the way it is. Does this mean that Riverside and Irvine are bad schools? No! Does it mean that the people they accept are terrible quality? ... Not necessarily =D

The point is that DO schools should humbly accept their role and not charge ridiculous sums of money to hold a spot. =P

 

[Fermata]

There are times when I really think that DO schools need to accept their role as a backup choice for most of the applicants in today's society. I mean, why the hell should they care if they're a backup?! All that matters is that they train physicians who meet requirements and pass the board.

There's no shame in being a backup. Let's face it, for example, UC Irvine and UC Riverside are backups to UCLA and UC Berkeley. It's simply the way it is. Does this mean that Riverside and Irvine are bad schools? No! Does it mean that the people they accept are terrible quality? ... Not necessarily =D

The point is that DO schools should humbly accept their role and not charge ridiculous sums of money to hold a spot. =P

I think it's more of a product that most DO schools are private and thus cost more.

If there were more state DO schools the stigma wouldn't be so bad.

 

[Rafa]

No one wants to play second fiddle though. I mean, even if it were true, you wouldn't tell your backup that it was your backup (out of practicality, if not out of grace and humility). I figure the sooner we stop treating (as in "talking about") DO schools as second-class citizens in the medschool community, the sooner we remove the stigma of becoming a DO instead of an MD.

Edit: I was responding to Pewl, btw.

 

[Fermata]

Perception among colleagues and the general public is different though.

I didn't even know what a DO was until I came across this board.

 

[Rafa]

Good point. Neither did I. I suppose it doesn't help that on almost every medical show on television (ER, Chicago Hope, Greg's Anatomy, House MD), the doctors, when identified, are IDd as MDs. Sort of the way when general shows want to imply that someone's really smart, the person invariably graduates from Harvard (Law) or Yale (Law). If they're a whiz at math or science, they're from MIT. If they're a doctor, then it's Johns Hopkins. Nevermind that most of the best people in any of those fields *don't* come from the three or four most commonly mentioned stereotypical "smart schools" on TV 🙂

Sometimes I think television does more to slow social progress than anything else in society.

 

[Law2Doc]

Good point. Neither did I. I suppose it doesn't help that on almost every medical show on television (ER, Chicago Hope, Greg's Anatomy, House MD), the doctors, when identified, are IDd as MDs. Sort of the way when general shows want to imply that someone's really smart, the person invariably graduates from Harvard (Law) or Yale (Law). If they're a whiz at math or science, they're from MIT. If they're a doctor, then it's Johns Hopkins. Nevermind that most of the best people in any of those fields *don't* come from the three or four most commonly mentioned stereotypical "smart schools" on TV 🙂

Sometimes I think television does more to slow social progress than anything else in society.

Perhaps, but DOs constitute a very small percentage of physicians out there, so it's not unreasonable in a TV show portraying a group of 10 or fewer doctors to have all of them be an MD, because frankly the percentages work out that way in real life currently.

 

[45408]

Perhaps, but DOs constitute a very small percentage of physicians out there, so it's not unreasonable in a TV show portraying a group of 10 or fewer doctors to have all of them be an MD, because frankly the percentages work out that way in real life currently.

I dunno, there seems to be quite a few out there. Any time I'm at work, I'll run across DOs fairly often. How many do they graduate each year? Anyone?

 

[Law2Doc]

I dunno, there seems to be quite a few out there. Any time I'm at work, I'll run across DOs fairly often. How many do they graduate each year? Anyone?

I don't know. The AACOM site only references about 20 osteo schools, so that is far fewer than the 120+ allo. I know that from allo, about 16,000 allo graduates go into the match each year, and that osteo numbers are far lower. But currently graduating is only part of the story because also DOs have a much shorter history, and a lot more of the schools are newer.

 

[Joseph]

A lot of good information is already posted in this thread. I applied to both DO and MD schools for the entering class of 2006. I learned a lot in the process. If you have qualifications (mcat, gpa, etc) that in any way could fit with MD or DO, the DO schools will give you very early interviews. But the AACOM has a rule that you don't have to pay any deposit until 12/15 so that you have a chance to interview at other schools first. I was really lucky and I didn't end up having to pay deposit fees for the DO schools, which were not refundable. Both of the DO schools that I interviewed at had great facilities, faculty, and students. I think that by applying to both MD and DO, you really end up learning a lot from the process. The real downside, like everyone else has mentioned, is the extra cost and time commitment. 🙂

 

[Messerschmitts]

I dunno, there seems to be quite a few out there. Any time I'm at work, I'll run across DOs fairly often.

Well, like many SDNers I never heard of a D.O. before med school applications. Neither has my family or any of my friends. And unlike you, I have so far never run into a D.O. in the course of my life. They're like this hidden class of characters that are supposed to be in this RPG but are really rare and are hard to find, like the vampires in the game Morrowind (if you play the game you'll know what I'm talking about). I know D.O.s are supposed to be out there, but so far I know them only by reputation. I doubt I'll be coming across one anytime soon unless I on purposely, actively go seek one out.

 

[Law2Doc]

Well, like many SDNers I never heard of a D.O. before med school applications. Neither has my family or any of my friends. And unlike you, I have so far never run into a D.O. in the course of my life. They're like this hidden class of characters that are supposed to be in this RPG but are really rare and are hard to find, like the vampires in the game Morrowind (if you play the game you'll know what I'm talking about). I know D.O.s are supposed to be out there, but so far I know them only by reputation. I doubt I'll be coming across one anytime soon unless I on purposely, actively go seek one out.

I think they're like leprechauns -- if you catch one he has to give you a pot of gold. 🙂

 

[87138]

In terms of being more expensive to apply, how exactly does it break down?

For instance, let's say instead of applying to 16 MD schools, I applied to 8 MD and 8 DO schools. Would that be more expensive?

I have to admit, I'm not quite sure about how the exact money breaks down between AMCAS fees, secondary fees, and what not. If someone could kind of explain that whole break down a little better I'd be really appreciate.

Again, sorry for sounding like a total rookie here🙂.

 

[cfdavid]

Well, like many SDNers I never heard of a D.O. before med school applications. Neither has my family or any of my friends. And unlike you, I have so far never run into a D.O. in the course of my life. They're like this hidden class of characters that are supposed to be in this RPG but are really rare and are hard to find, like the vampires in the game Morrowind (if you play the game you'll know what I'm talking about). I know D.O.s are supposed to be out there, but so far I know them only by reputation. I doubt I'll be coming across one anytime soon unless I on purposely, actively go seek one out.

I think it depends on your state. I'm from Michigan, and most people know about DO's. There are many that practice here.

I've even asked some clueless friends of mine, and when they reflect, it's like "yeah, you know, I think my family doc is a DO". It kind of shows how most people don't even notice the letters after the name.

Believe it or not, since I personally have been paying attention to this stuff, I've heard at least as many "I prefer a DO" as "oh, I only see MD's". But, again, I think Michigan has the largest number of practicing DO's, so this would not be representative everywhere.

 

[Rafa]

In terms of being more expensive to apply, how exactly does it break down?

For instance, let's say instead of applying to 16 MD schools, I applied to 8 MD and 8 DO schools. Would that be more expensive?

I have to admit, I'm not quite sure about how the exact money breaks down between AMCAS fees, secondary fees, and what not. If someone could kind of explain that whole break down a little better I'd be really appreciate.

Again, sorry for sounding like a total rookie here🙂.

I know next to nothing about DO schools, but here's how the MD portion breaks down:

First of all, you have to register for the MCAT. This gets more expensive every year. For 2006, according to AAMC.org, this year's extortion rate is $210. Expect that to rise in time for 2007.

Then there's the actual AMCAS application. That costs $160. Last year, I believe, it was $150. In addition to the $160, you must add $30 for each school you wish to apply to, after the first.

Then, if everything goes well (score well on MCAT, AMCAS designates your application as 'processed'), over the summer, schools interested in you (meaning your bank account) will send you secondary applications. To have the schools *read* your secondary apps, you will need to complete them, writing essays if any, and include an "application fee" (yes, in addition to the initial $30 you already paid to AMCAS and the schools). This "application fee" will vary between $30 and $100 in price, with the med school cabal setting the current extortion rates at $75.

Then, if they receive your secondary app and like what they see, they'll ask you to come in for an interview. You will pay for transportation. You will pay for your suit, dress, and lodging (if you stay in a hotel). This will happen for every college that grants you an interview (pay your own way).

Finally, once you get into a school, you must respond in writing (and, of course, money) within two weeks in order to secure your spot. You aren't obligated to attend the school, but you will need to send in a deposit (haha) typically between $100 and $300 in price. It's allegedly refundable.

Anyway, this is why applying to medical school is expensive. Let's say you apply to 5 schools (haha) and get into three of them.

At this year's rates:

$210
$160
$150 (30x5)
$375 (75x5)
$100 (suit or dress+shoes+stuff)
$600 (round trip tickets for interviews, presuming you interview at 3 schools at $200 a ticket)
$300 (3 deposits, 2 of which are refundable)

That comes out to $1895 - enough to buy yourself a 15" powerbook with room for accessories. And this presumes a few conveniences (like you only applying to 5 schools, like you getting into 3 of them, like each school offering you sanitary lodging).

This is why applicants are urged to set aside at least a couple grand for the application process. 😳

 

[ChaChaDocta]

I'm applying to 7 MD and 6 DO schools. I definitely did my research on both routes before spending my hard earned money. Strictly on Primary Apps and Secondary Apps, I spent $775 on MD schools and $640 on DO schools. That figures out to roughly the same dollar amount per school ($105-110 per school).

Some quick stats for you:
Currently 5-8% of Medical Doctors in the US have a DO (approx. 56,500).
In 2004, 18% of all enrolled Medical Students are were in DO schools (approx. 12,000 students).
Also, DOs are more common in some states than others. Check out your state in the stat sheet below. Higher DO:MD ratios in Michigan, PA, NJ...

Here is a very informative stat sheet on DOs:
http://www.osteopathic.org/pdf/ost_factsheet.pdf

And an article entitled "DO or MD, Which One?":
http://www.studentdoctor.net/do/mdordo.asp

Hope that answers some questions. 🙂

 

[45408]

Well, like many SDNers I never heard of a D.O. before med school applications. Neither has my family or any of my friends. And unlike you, I have so far never run into a D.O. in the course of my life. They're like this hidden class of characters that are supposed to be in this RPG but are really rare and are hard to find, like the vampires in the game Morrowind (if you play the game you'll know what I'm talking about). I know D.O.s are supposed to be out there, but so far I know them only by reputation. I doubt I'll be coming across one anytime soon unless I on purposely, actively go seek one out.

I wasn't nearly as familiar with them before I hit SDN, but I did know one personally, and since then, I see a fair number in the hospital (Midwest).

 

[diosa428]

Random thoughts:

I didn't apply to DO schools, so this could be totally wrong, but don't DO schools require you to shadow a DO before applying?

A someone else already said, please be sure that you would be ok with going to a DO school BEFORE you start applying - don't be one of those trolls who posts something about how they have been accepted to a DO school but don't want to go b/c they want to be an MD. Read about the DO philosophy and research the schools and be sure that you would be happy with that career choice.

Keep in mind that sometimes DOs have a hard time getting into allopathic residencies. This is probably something you should find out about - I can't provide detailed information on what's considered an "allopathic" residency and what isn't, but maybe someone else can help out here?

 

[Lara]

Between PCOM and LECOM, I've seen plenty of ostepathic students and grads here in Pennsylvania. Even coming from Canada with no prior knowledge I'd have learned about them by now without ever reading SDN. 🙂

 

[HoodyHoo]

Random thoughts:

I didn't apply to DO schools, so this could be totally wrong, but don't DO schools require you to shadow a DO before applying?

A someone else already said, please be sure that you would be ok with going to a DO school BEFORE you start applying - don't be one of those trolls who posts something about how they have been accepted to a DO school but don't want to go b/c they want to be an MD. Read about the DO philosophy and research the schools and be sure that you would be happy with that career choice.

Keep in mind that sometimes DOs have a hard time getting into allopathic residencies. This is probably something you should find out about - I can't provide detailed information on what's considered an "allopathic" residency and what isn't, but maybe someone else can help out here?

No, you don't have to shadow a DO prior to applying. It doesn't hurt to get a recommendation from a DO but this is also not a requirement. The application process is almost identical to AMCAS.

I don't remember who said they've never seen a DO. but just wait till you hit rotations and you are working side-by-side with them. you will inevitably run into one of us i'm sure.

 

[docbill]

I would apply to both.. and one does not really need to hide it. If asked at interview.. admit it (depending on the school you are intereviewing at).

At the end a DO becomes a physician just like an MD.

The only "major" difference I see, is how well you did in undergrad and on the MCrAP. For someone like me.. who will have my PhD in medical sciences.. I know and openly admit that I did crap in undergrad and don't have a great MCrAP score. I'm NOT pleasesd about it... but its true. I was a late bloomer.

The DO path will allow me to become a Physician. The MD path will not (because of my poor undergrad performance and cause I am not US resident so can't apply instate etc..)

 

[87138]

Thanks for the info so far guys.

My main reservation is the MCAT, which I will not even have taken until after I've decided where I'm applying to. It's just EXTREMELY unnerving going into the process blindly, throwing tons of money towards a bunch of schools to apply, without even knowing whether I have a chance at all until Mid October.

All things considered, if I rocked the MCAT I would most likely prefer to attend an MD school, for several reasons, including the simple geography of it all and where some of the nearby DO schools would be located compared to MD schools. Honestly though, I have the dream of becoming a physician, and want to pursue whichever path will allow for that. If my MCAT scores aren't too great, I would still like to be able to have a chance at becoming a physician, and I feel like a DO school would be more welcoming to this, especially given the fact that the rest of my application is relatively solid.

 

[Jaider]

My main reservation is the MCAT, which I will not even have taken until after I've decided where I'm applying to. It's just EXTREMELY unnerving going into the process blindly, throwing tons of money towards a bunch of schools to apply, without even knowing whether I have a chance at all until Mid October.

Have you considered the possibility of potentially applying in a second round, if necessary? You could do something similar to what I did:

I took the April '05 MCAT and got a fairly mediocre score, at least by SDN standards. Knowing I wouldn't have time to retake the exam in August and raise my score, I decided to take a risky application strategy. I considered long and hard where I wanted to go to med school. I picked my personal top 12, which aren't exactly easy to get into. So, that's where I applied. I had to accept that I was really only applying to one school where I had a good chance of acceptance (state school) and that the others were practically a crapshoot. But I DEFINITELY didn't want to apply to any school that didn't excite me. Why apply to a school if you're not excited to go? There's always next year!! Rather than spend a fortune applying to a bunch of less-selective schools, I decided that I would apply to my top choices in the first round, then if I wasn't accepted anywhere I would retake the MCAT next April, see my score, and apply early to a greater number of schools (including ones that were ranked lower in my esteem).

Would you consider doing something like that, or are you really concerned about getting in this year? The perfect scenario is to be very prepared for the MCAT, take it in April, see your score, choose your schools, submit your AMCAS in June. If your applications are late and your scores aren't high, you could end up losing a ton of money on applications. 🙁 It just depends what you're comfortable doing.

Good luck with your decision.

 

[Nikki2002]

No, you don't have to shadow a DO prior to applying. It doesn't hurt to get a recommendation from a DO but this is also not a requirement. The application process is almost identical to AMCAS.

I don't remember who said they've never seen a DO. but just wait till you hit rotations and you are working side-by-side with them. you will inevitably run into one of us i'm sure.

Some schools require recommendation letters from D.O.'s before they will consider your application complete.

 

[medhacker]

"In the end, my decision will be determined by financial aid."

I kind of used this in an interview and actually got accepted..

 

[Law2Doc]

Have you considered the possibility of potentially applying in a second round, if necessary? You could do something similar to what I did:

I took the April '05 MCAT and got a fairly mediocre score, at least by SDN standards. Knowing I wouldn't have time to retake the exam in August and raise my score, I decided to take a risky application strategy. I considered long and hard where I wanted to go to med school. I picked my personal top 12, which aren't exactly easy to get into. So, that's where I applied. I had to accept that I was really only applying to one school where I had a good chance of acceptance (state school) and that the others were practically a crapshoot. But I DEFINITELY didn't want to apply to any school that didn't excite me. Why apply to a school if you're not excited to go? There's always next year!! Rather than spend a fortune applying to a bunch of less-selective schools, I decided that I would apply to my top choices in the first round, then if I wasn't accepted anywhere I would retake the MCAT next April, see my score, and apply early to a greater number of schools (including ones that were ranked lower in my esteem).

The problem with this plan is that some of the more competitive schools I've heard consider it a bit of a negative for one to be a reapplicant, and you end up with your application being looked at in a different pile (this, according to an adcom member I know; other schools may view things differently).
This process totally favors those who get all their ducks in a row before they pull the trigger and apply. If you could avoid reapplicant status by either holding off on applications until after the retake, or applying to more schools in the first round, you would have been better off.

 

[Anastasis]

Talking about the prices of applying, remember if you're applying to a Texas school (except Baylor) that they're all on a different system (Is TCOM as well? I think it is but I'm not 100% positive).

 

[ChaChaDocta]

Random thoughts:

I didn't apply to DO schools, so this could be totally wrong, but don't DO schools require you to shadow a DO before applying?

Keep in mind that sometimes DOs have a hard time getting into allopathic residencies.

1) Wrong. A few schools require a DO or MD LOR, though.
2) Very very few residency programs openly discriminate. As long as you took the USMLE, it is *supposed* to be an open playing field. But, realistically we know that a bias exists in some programs.

 

[Doctor Bagel]

1) Wrong. A few schools require a DO or MD LOR, though.
2) Very very few residency programs openly discriminate. As long as you took the USMLE, it is *supposed* to be an open playing field. But, realistically we know that a bias exists in some programs.

True, shadowing is not required, and most schools don't even require a DO letter. However, shadowing really helps you in your interview because it allows to elaborate on what you see as the advantages to the DO approach. I wouldn't worry about it if it's impossible, though.

Most allopathic fields are open to DOs. In fact, the slight majority of DOs these days go into allopathic residencies instead of osteopathic residencies. Apparently, it's very hard if you want something like opthal, derm, radiology and, oddly enough, general surgery.