Applying to Derm and IM. Advice please!

[tarpondoc]

Hello everyone,

I am a 4th year US med student getting ready to apply to residency. I am attempting to determine a strategy for applying to dermatology for this year's cycle. I know that I will also be applying to internal medicine programs as well as a plan B. The problem I have with applying to derm is that it is obviously so competitive and I want to end up in an excellent internal medicine program if I don't match into derm. The problem with this is that I want to stay in the Southeast for residency. I feel as though I should apply to the higher ranked IM programs in this region since I probably have a better shot for IM than derm. By doing so, it subsequently decreases my options for derm since I cannot apply to the same university for both departments. Does anyone have any comments on this subject? I have heard that you can possibly apply to the same program for different specialties, but only interview for one of the specialties if you get offers for both. Is this true?

Also, I am wondering what you all think about my chances of matching into derm? I have A's in all preclinical and clinical rotations. Step 1= 242, Step 2 pending. Currently doing an away rotation in derm (no home derm department) and another next month. Co-founder of a geriatric interest group, previous secretary for ethics interest group, multiple poster presentations at national geriatrics/internal medicine meetings, extensive volunteer work with homeless, elderly education, and one derm event. Academic excellence award for first 2 years of med school. Chosen as one of student mentors/tutors for underclassmen. 1 publication 1st author in JAAD Images in Dermatology section. Nominated but not selected for junior AOA. Graduated Summa Cum Laude from undergrad (for what its worth).

Any helpful advice would be greatly appreciated! Thanks!

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[Jemeni]

I'd be very honest with yourself about your true chances.

Your ECs are nice, and so are your preclinical grades. But those don't seem to matter too much, especially preclinical grades (someone correct me if I'm wrong). Your Step I seems to be on the very low end for derm, and iirc the average number of pubs for derm matches last year was like 7-9. But you seem very competitive for IM, although I've heard top programs are a crapshoot.

As for what to do, I'm not entirely sure. It might take a long time to work out which schools to apply to as to not overlap. I'm sure if you focused only on one or another, you'd have a better shot at it.

 

[Slack3r]

I'd be very honest with yourself about your true chances.

Your ECs are nice, and so are your preclinical grades. But those don't seem to matter too much, especially preclinical grades (someone correct me if I'm wrong). Your Step I seems to be on the very low end for derm, and iirc the average number of pubs for derm matches last year was like 7-9. But you seem very competitive for IM, although I've heard top programs are a crapshoot.

As for what to do, I'm not entirely sure. It might take a long time to work out which schools to apply to as to not overlap. I'm sure if you focused only on one or another, you'd have a better shot at it.

You're an MS2. And btw, mean Step 1 for derm is 244

http://www.nrmp.org/data/chartingoutcomes2011.pdf

 

[ijn]

I'd be very honest with yourself about your true chances.

Your ECs are nice, and so are your preclinical grades. But those don't seem to matter too much, especially preclinical grades (someone correct me if I'm wrong). Your Step I seems to be on the very low end for derm, and iirc the average number of pubs for derm matches last year was like 7-9. But you seem very competitive for IM, although I've heard top programs are a crapshoot.

As for what to do, I'm not entirely sure. It might take a long time to work out which schools to apply to as to not overlap. I'm sure if you focused only on one or another, you'd have a better shot at it.

go look up the definition of a mean score. you're talking crazy **** brah.

 

[SilverCat]

I think there's a forum for Dermatology where current residents will give feedback on chances.

 

[rocketbooster]

I'd be very honest with yourself about your true chances.

Your ECs are nice, and so are your preclinical grades. But those don't seem to matter too much, especially preclinical grades (someone correct me if I'm wrong). Your Step I seems to be on the very low end for derm, and iirc the average number of pubs for derm matches last year was like 7-9. But you seem very competitive for IM, although I've heard top programs are a crapshoot.

As for what to do, I'm not entirely sure. It might take a long time to work out which schools to apply to as to not overlap. I'm sure if you focused only on one or another, you'd have a better shot at it.

Terribly wrong.

You're an MS2. And btw, mean Step 1 for derm is 244

http://www.nrmp.org/data/chartingoutcomes2011.pdf

Right.

go look up the definition of a mean score. you're talking crazy **** brah.

Right.

Go look at the charting outcomes 2011. Just as many ppl have in the 240s as 250s. And the average research of 7-9 is NOT 7-9 pubs. Ppl will use the same research project in multiple ways. Topic 1 can you get a pub, a presentation or two, and and a poster. That one research project just filled up half of the "average research" of derm applicants. Ppl also include all their undergrad research. I personally can fill out 5 things for research and I only concentrated on research over 3rd year and a small thing from college. I was very productive over 3rd year, but you can imagine how much you can get if you start earlier in med school.

That guy above only finished his 1st year, hence he knows nothing about applying to residency. I'm an MS4, along with the others who responded.

 

[rodmichael82]

I'd be very honest with yourself about your true chances.

Your ECs are nice, and so are your preclinical grades. But those don't seem to matter too much, especially preclinical grades (someone correct me if I'm wrong). Your Step I seems to be on the very low end for derm, and iirc the average number of pubs for derm matches last year was like 7-9. But you seem very competitive for IM, although I've heard top programs are a crapshoot.

As for what to do, I'm not entirely sure. It might take a long time to work out which schools to apply to as to not overlap. I'm sure if you focused only on one or another, you'd have a better shot at it.

It's posts like these that make me want to get the hell off SDN.

The crazy part is that you're an M2? wtf?

 

[WaylonS]

Hello everyone,

I am a 4th year US med student getting ready to apply to residency. I am attempting to determine a strategy for applying to dermatology for this year's cycle. I know that I will also be applying to internal medicine programs as well as a plan B. The problem I have with applying to derm is that it is obviously so competitive and I want to end up in an excellent internal medicine program if I don't match into derm. The problem with this is that I want to stay in the Southeast for residency. I feel as though I should apply to the higher ranked IM programs in this region since I probably have a better shot for IM than derm. By doing so, it subsequently decreases my options for derm since I cannot apply to the same university for both departments. Does anyone have any comments on this subject? I have heard that you can possibly apply to the same program for different specialties, but only interview for one of the specialties if you get offers for both. Is this true?

Also, I am wondering what you all think about my chances of matching into derm? I have A's in all preclinical and clinical rotations. Step 1= 242, Step 2 pending. Currently doing an away rotation in derm (no home derm department) and another next month. Co-founder of a geriatric interest group, previous secretary for ethics interest group, multiple poster presentations at national geriatrics/internal medicine meetings, extensive volunteer work with homeless, elderly education, and one derm event. Academic excellence award for first 2 years of med school. Chosen as one of student mentors/tutors for underclassmen. 1 publication 1st author in JAAD Images in Dermatology section. Nominated but not selected for junior AOA. Graduated Summa Cum Laude from undergrad (for what its worth).

Any helpful advice would be greatly appreciated! Thanks!

Every derm applicant goes through this, and it comes down to this: do you want to be sure you match to a complete residency spot, or do you really, really want derm. I've met derm applicants who've applied to IM/rads/peds as a backup in case they didn't match to derm, and I've met many who planned to only do a prelim year if they didn't match, followed by a research fellowship. In derm, no one is a shoe in, and accepting the scary reality that you might not match goes with the territory. Point is, whichever direction you chose, you need to think about a backup. If you apply to a backup specialty, are you positive you won't regret not trying to do a derm fellowship. If you decide to not apply for a second specialty, do you think you can handle the reality that you may not match after a fellowship.

 

[Ronin786]

I know in general people don't recommend applying to different specialties at the same program, but I think that comes more into play when you interview. PDs might compare interviewees or happen across each other, but I doubt they cross reference their applicant list.

You could try applying to these programs for both IM and Derm and then depending on who offers you interviews you can go from there.

 

[evilbooyaa]

I think you need to pick what your #1 priority is.
Is it:
1) Stay in the southeast?
2) Get into (any) derm program?
3) Get into a GOOD IM program?

I believe applying to multiple specialties at the same residency system may be considered non-taboo. However, going on 2 interviews for different specialties at the same hospital (and in case you run into the other PD during your secondary interview) may bite you in the ass.

Know that you are not guaranteed to get into derm, especially if you are limiting yourself geographically, based on your stats. I'm really surprised that you didn't get AOA with straight honors in everything. That alone will hurt you for good IM programs, and (probably) most derm programs.

I would make a post in the dermatology forum under the "what are my chances" thread for better information.

Your step 1 score is fine. Like I said, your biggest hurdle will be if you choose to limit yourself geographically (even if it's not to the Northeast or California). If you REALLY want to do derm, you should be applying to damn near every program in the country (probably).

 

[WaylonS]

If you REALLY want to do derm, you should be applying to damn near every program in the country (probably).

👍

 

[alpinism]

I think you need to pick what your #1 priority is.
Is it:
1) Stay in the southeast?
2) Get into (any) derm program?
3) Get into a GOOD IM program?

I believe applying to multiple specialties at the same residency system may be considered non-taboo. However, going on 2 interviews for different specialties at the same hospital (and in case you run into the other PD during your secondary interview) may bite you in the ass.

Know that you are not guaranteed to get into derm, especially if you are limiting yourself geographically, based on your stats. I'm really surprised that you didn't get AOA with straight honors in everything. That alone will hurt you for good IM programs, and (probably) most derm programs.

I would make a post in the dermatology forum under the "what are my chances" thread for better information.

Your step 1 score is fine. Like I said, your biggest hurdle will be if you choose to limit yourself geographically (even if it's not to the Northeast or California). If you REALLY want to do derm, you should be applying to damn near every program in the country (probably).

Best advice ITT.

OP, you can apply to both, but you need to decide what's more important to you: staying in the SE or becoming a dermatologist.

Depending on your definition of "SE programs" you're going to be severely limiting yourself come match day. I would at least consider some Midwest and Mid Atlantic programs if you really want a good shot.

 

[tarpondoc]

Best advice ITT.

OP, you can apply to both, but you need to decide what's more important to you: staying in the SE or becoming a dermatologist.

Depending on your definition of "SE programs" you're going to be severely limiting yourself come match day. I would at least consider some Midwest and Mid Atlantic programs if you really want a good shot.

I am definitely planning on applying to the derm programs outside of the SE. In terms of AOA, I was just as surprised as you are. If I submit ERAS in September but am not elected to AOA until October, will some programs rule me out right away or do they tend to wait to see updates for senior AOA elections? Thanks for the responses!

 

[HalladayWeekend]

I had very similar stats to you and unfortunately didn't match to derm (currently in a prelim program and reapplying this cycle. Granted, there were too many people applying in my class, with a few taking research years, PhD's etc.). With your stats, your best bet is matching at your away (as you don't have a home program). It is very hard with "average" stats to get many derm interviews without any other connection (as sad as that sounds- derm is nuts). If you really want derm though, your best bet is probably to apply to academic prelims as a backup and then try to reapply after that and if that fails, doing a research fellowship. There is certainly a chance that you will match this cycle (I think around 75-80 percent match with Step scores between 240-250), but nothing is guaranteed in derm.

 

[reidmike]

Is it bad to apply to the same university for IM and derm? Obviously, I would only go to one or the other interview, but just trying to maximize my shot.

 

[rodmichael82]

Is it bad to apply to the same university for IM and derm? Obviously, I would only go to one or the other interview, but just trying to maximize my shot.

Lol I don't know if that's a good idea especially since the program directors might know each other.

 

[WaylonS]

Lol I don't know if that's a good idea especially since the program directors might know each other.

How often do you think program directors compare their list of applicants/interviewed students, and how often do you think they talk about applicants, let alone talking about applicants and remembering their names? Also, would it be a match violation for a PD to share the names of applicants with another PD regardless if they are or aren't in the same discipline?

 

[Instatewaiter]

How often do you think program directors compare their list of applicants/interviewed students, and how often do you think they talk about applicants, let alone talking about applicants and remembering their names? Also, would it be a match violation for a PD to share the names of applicants with another PD regardless if they are or aren't in the same discipline?

It wouldn't be a match violation. This happens all the time during couples match. The OB people will call the surgery people and be like, "we love Mrs Doctor Smith, could you take Mr Doctor Smith?"

 

[Instatewaiter]

How often do you think program directors compare their list of applicants/interviewed students, and how often do you think they talk about applicants, let alone talking about applicants and remembering their names? Also, would it be a match violation for a PD to share the names of applicants with another PD regardless if they are or aren't in the same discipline?

It wouldn't be a match violation. This happens all the time during couples match. The OB people will call the surgery people and be like, "we love Mrs Doctor Smith, could you take Mr Doctor Smith?"

 

[evilbooyaa]

Lol I don't know if that's a good idea especially since the program directors might know each other.

It will be unlikely that PDs will talk to each other about people that are applying for interviews. As I stated above, the bigger concern is if you go to both interviews and see your other PD. That will get you dropped off the rank list for both specialties probably.