applying to too competitive a list of schools

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MedRower

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alright, I know I need to add schools. where else should I apply? I have no faith in my ability to 'wow' an adcom.

I think I want to apply to some of the ones below. What do you think about

U Chic?
U Mich?
Feinberg NWern?
UCSD?
Baylor?
USF?
UCLA?
Pittsburgh?

I've already got 10 schools. I feel like applying to more than 13 will be a lot. Should I revise that gut feeling upward? I don't really know how to pick from those schools 3 more to apply to. What do you think?
 
I've already got 10 schools. I feel like applying to more than 13 will be a lot. Should I revise that gut feeling upward? I don't really know how to pick from those schools 3 more to apply to. What do you think?


You are applying MD/PhD, >10x fewer slots, but less applicants. I think you should consider applying to more schools.

I applied to 31. I feel that 20+ is a good number.
 
What? Really?! That's a lot of essay-writing and money...

Can I get a second opinion?

Although at first glance your stats look great (although GPA a tad on the average - low side), remember you're applying to MD/PhD programs. Not only are the programs smaller, they are also more self-selective. Most applicants have stats similar to you. Is there anything you don't have listed on mdapplicants that really makes you stand out? Any research awards? Will your letters of rec be strong?

I think solitude is only applying to about 10 schools but then again he basically has a 40/4.0 plus awesome research and awards and letters and volunteering....That said, you could probably get into one of those 13 schools you have listed already but this whole process can appear a bit random at times. But then again, I'm just another competely neurotic self-doubting applicant and am thus applying to 25 schools....


cheers!

-j
 
Although at first glance your stats look great (although GPA a tad on the average - low side), remember you're applying to MD/PhD programs. Not only are the programs smaller, they are also more self-selective. Most applicants have stats similar to you. Is there anything you don't have listed on mdapplicants that really makes you stand out? Any research awards? Will your letters of rec be strong?

I think solitude is only applying to about 10 schools but then again he basically has a 40/4.0 plus awesome research and awards and letters and volunteering....That said, you could probably get into one of those 13 schools you have listed already but this whole process can appear a bit random at times. But then again, I'm just another competely neurotic self-doubting applicant and am thus applying to 25 schools....


cheers!

-j



To be honest I am a bit scared at how competitive my list of schools is--nothing is a sure thing. I'm still thinking about adding a few somewhat less competitive MSTPs, but I like to think I'll get into at least one or two of the most competitive ones already on my list.

With that said, judging from his Mdapps, the OP and my applications are very similar aside from his GPA being slightly lower and seeming to have fewer of the non-medical, non-research activities (but varsity athletics sucks away time like whoa). There is a very, very good chance that the OP will get into at least one of the schools on his list, but it doesn't hurt to apply to a few more. I disagree about applying to 20+; it seems like a lot of really competitive applicants apply to 20+ as a safety net, but don't end up filling out all of the secondaries, going to all of their interview invites, etc, and thereby waste their time and money. How about 3 to 5 more of the ones you mentioned? They're all going to provide a similarly high quality of education, so I would recommend picking from them based on where you would want to spend the next 8 years of your life. Then again, if you have the money and the time, it wouldn't hurt to apply to ~20 just to be absolutely sure you'll have some choices.

good luck!
 
To be honest I am a bit scared at how competitive my list of schools is--nothing is a sure thing. I'm still thinking about adding a few somewhat less competitive MSTPs, but I like to think I'll get into at least one or two of the most competitive ones already on my list.

With that said, judging from his Mdapps, the OP and my applications are very similar aside from his GPA being slightly lower and seeming to have fewer of the non-medical, non-research activities (but varsity athletics sucks away time like whoa). There is a very, very good chance that the OP will get into at least one of the schools on his list, but it doesn't hurt to apply to a few more. I disagree about applying to 20+; it seems like a lot of really competitive applicants apply to 20+ as a safety net, but don't end up filling out all of the secondaries, going to all of their interview invites, etc, and thereby waste their time and money. How about 3 to 5 more of the ones you mentioned? They're all going to provide a similarly high quality of education, so I would recommend picking from them based on where you would want to spend the next 8 years of your life. Then again, if you have the money and the time, it wouldn't hurt to apply to ~20 just to be absolutely sure you'll have some choices.

good luck!

Yeah all of my professors/advisors/friends and even my parents think I'm absolutely crazy to be applying to 25 schools, but I will NOT go on 25 interviews. My current plan is to 'triage' and hope for an early interview and acceptance somewhere (I'd love to have an October interview at WashU and November acceptance but I don't want to jinx myself) and eliminate 15 schools off my list.....can I just be in somewhere already?

Here's to the next 9 months of waiting!!

p.s. will Duke and UCSF ever give out secondaries?
 
I agree with the above posters; 10 is way too low for MD/PhD. You really should consider increasing that list to 20.

Add whatever other schools you're interested in...the ones you suggested are all great.

Also, your ECs are pretty weak...is a month of shadowing really all of the clinical experience you have? No volunteering or anything?
 
Yeah all of my professors/advisors/friends and even my parents think I'm absolutely crazy to be applying to 25 schools, but I will NOT go on 25 interviews. My current plan is to 'triage' and hope for an early interview and acceptance somewhere (I'd love to have an October interview at WashU and November acceptance but I don't want to jinx myself) and eliminate 15 schools off my list.....can I just be in somewhere already?

Here's to the next 9 months of waiting!!

p.s. will Duke and UCSF ever give out secondaries?


Yeah that's definitely a good strategy. In addition to WashU, Hopkins and Michigan also notify about acceptance very early, and I would be delighted to get an early acceptance from one of them and then skip out on a few of the interviews.

I heard the UCSF secondary has had no essays in the past (hallelujah), but I'm sure you know that Duke's is going to be a pain in the butt when it finally comes out. How come you didn't apply to Stanford?
 
I must beg to differ with the others here. My pre-health advisor here at Penn (no stranger to sending kids to good med schools) ardently advocates the stance that applying to more than 15 schools is not only unnecessary, but can actually harm you in terms of fatigue, financial strain, and the possibility that the perception of insincerity can come through in applications. Moreover, I work for a higher-up in the Penn MSTP who also says that applying to more than about 15 schools is really a matter of diminishing returns. You just have to pick a smart list of schools to apply to...if you have chosen only 15 top-tier schools then, yes, perhaps you'll be in trouble. But if you make smart choices in your applications, then it should, according to these people who have been through the process for many years, be completely sufficient. Everyone ought to consider: is your goal to become a doctor, or just to go to an impresive med school?

P.S. I don't know why others have impugned your stats...they are quite good, and considering your GPA is from Princeton I think it will hold more weight than from some other places (even though you still are no match for us in basketball 😛).
 
Yeah that's definitely a good strategy. In addition to WashU, Hopkins and Michigan also notify about acceptance very early, and I would be delighted to get an early acceptance from one of them and then skip out on a few of the interviews.

I heard the UCSF secondary has had no essays in the past (hallelujah), but I'm sure you know that Duke's is going to be a pain in the butt when it finally comes out. How come you didn't apply to Stanford?

woops my bad I did apply to Stanford, I just forgot about them due to lack of a secondary or information packet. Does Hopkins really notify that early? I thought January and March were the two times they notify applicants...
 
alright, I know I need to add schools. where else should I apply? I have no faith in my ability to 'wow' an adcom.

I think I want to apply to some of the ones below. What do you think about

U Chic?
U Mich?
Feinberg NWern?
UCSD?
Baylor?
USF?
UCLA?
Pittsburgh?

I've already got 10 schools. I feel like applying to more than 13 will be a lot. Should I revise that gut feeling upward? I don't really know how to pick from those schools 3 more to apply to. What do you think?
I think your biggest problem is less the number of schools that you've picked and more that every single one of them is highly competitive; you should add some less competitive programs to them. Maybe half a dozen or so would be sufficient. Do you care about MSTP versus regular MD/PhD? USF is a great school, but it is a very new program and it is NOT an MSTP. The school is also not particularly research-oriented, although the new dean is moving things more in that direction. I don't know if that will happen soon enough for you though. If you want to apply in FL, I would look at UF instead. It's not an MSTP either, but right now it is still the best research institution in FL IMHO. I'd also suggest that you consider adding some other MSTPs in the South, like Baylor, UAB, Emory, and Vanderbilt. They're all great programs and tend not to attract as many of the folks who live on the Coasts. If you're interested in the Midwest, then Michigan, Chicago, Pitt, Northwestern, and Case are all great research schools to look at. :luck: to you. 🙂
 
I must beg to differ with the others here. My pre-health advisor here at Penn (no stranger to sending kids to good med schools) ardently advocates the stance that applying to more than 15 schools is not only unnecessary, but can actually harm you in terms of fatigue, financial strain, and the possibility that the perception of insincerity can come through in applications. Moreover, I work for a higher-up in the Penn MSTP who also says that applying to more than about 15 schools is really a matter of diminishing returns. You just have to pick a smart list of schools to apply to...if you have chosen only 15 top-tier schools then, yes, perhaps you'll be in trouble. But if you make smart choices in your applications, then it should, according to these people who have been through the process for many years, be completely sufficient. Everyone ought to consider: is your goal to become a doctor, or just to go to an impresive med school?

P.S. I don't know why others have impugned your stats...they are quite good, and considering your GPA is from Princeton I think it will hold more weight than from some other places (even though you still are no match for us in basketball 😛).

PHEW! So glad to hear this, considering I applied to *only* 14 MSTPs - and my schools are split 50/50 reach:slightly-less-of-a-reach, although I still get the sense that ANY MSTP program is a reach, know what I mean?

Good :luck: Everyone!

-MSTPbound
 
If it makes you feel any better, I only applied to 10 schools MD/PhD. There was no way on earth I could afford more than that. In fact, applying to 10 schools is already stretching my budget more than I can handle right now. I would love to apply to more than 10, but then, who pays?

My list of school is also very competitive. I guess again, because money is limited, if I am not 100% serious about the school, I see no point in applying. I am really hoping that I will get into one of these tens. If not, I guess time for Plan B! My advisors are all in agreement about this, so we are hoping something will work out.

1. Hopkins
2. Harvard
3. Stanford
4. Yale
5. Duke
6. University of Washington
7. University of Chicago
8. University of Pennsylvania
9. Vanderbilt University
10. Columbia University
 
I think most of the people here are neurotic, and I mean that in the nicest way possible. I've only applied to eight MSTPs, but looking at your list, you probably should add at least one or two less competitive programs. Even with a 40, acceptance is not guaranteed, and by choosing only the most competitive programs, you are hindering yourself.
 
I think most of the people here are neurotic, and I mean that in the nicest way possible.

I'll readily admit I'm neurotic! Maybe we should start a support group of neurotic med. school applicants...
 
I disagree about applying to 20+; it seems like a lot of really competitive applicants apply to 20+ as a safety net, but don't end up filling out all of the secondaries, going to all of their interview invites, etc, and thereby waste their time and money.

You can think about location, you can focus on schools that have a strength in your area of research, and you can consider other factors as well based on hearsay/school profiles and other such things. However, (as is commonly said about undergrad), you can't judge an MSTP without visiting. Nor can you predict who will and will not be interested in your application, regardless of your "stats". I feel pretty strongly that applying to 20+ is not only acceptable, but a good approach.

Here's my story which is one of many and varied experiences people have had with the app process. If I had applied to 10 schools instead of 20, I would probably be at University of Cincinnati's MSTP. Not that this is bad, but I would say I've done pretty well ending up, instead, at WashU.

I had connections with MSTP directors at three schools, I graduated from the undergrad of a 4th, I had alumni consideration (med school, not mstp) at a 5th, and my research mentor knew adcom people at 3 more. Of these schools, I received an interview at 2, and was accepted at one (Univ. Cincinnati). This would have comprised my list of ~10.

I received interviews at two top schools where I would have had no opportunity to pursue a PhD in the field I'm interested in (math modeling). I'm attending WashU, literally the last program I added to my list because their MCAT averages from MSAR were significantly higher than my score, and their math modeling faculty is sparse (according to the internet, and word-of-mouth). Oh, and it's in crappy St. Louis.

And guess what.. while there is no formal biomathematical modeling dept here, there are some very well-recognized and visionary faculty members in this field scattered around the university. I love it, and I dont think there's a better place in the country for me. St. Louis? It rocks. Forget all the rest who say otherwise.

I only interviewed at 8 of 20. I received a bunch more interview offers, but you take them or leave them. It's not a "waste" of time and effort if you don't go to all the interviews. Applying / paying is just part of the game to find where you'll be happiest. It doesnt make any sense to avoid spending an extra $200-1000 when you're applying to fully funded MSTP programs. You'll recover your "losses" in the first month of school. Some schools offer interviews primarily in the fall. Others don't start til january or february. Some have 2 dates, some have 8 dates. There are a few great schools that tell you their decision immediately --off the top of my head, WashU, University of Washington (can be the day after!), U. Wisconsin, U. Michigan.

Conclusions:
1. You may think you know where you want to spend the next 8 years, but you really don't until you get there. So apply to a bunch.
2. App fatigue; after secondary #6, the essays start repeating themselves (EXCEPTION: see Duke, Stanford, USC-Keck). Also, MSTP interviews are a blast, they're very social and the programs generally treat applicants very well. (very different from MD interviews)
3. This is a huge crapshoot. If you want to find the best place for you, apply to lots of schools.
 
And guess what.. while there is no formal biomathematical modeling dept here, there are some very well-recognized and visionary faculty members in this field scattered around the university. I love it, and I dont think there's a better place in the country for me. St. Louis? It rocks. Forget all the rest who say otherwise.

my friend is about to start the WUMP (is that what it's called?) and she knows a lot of MD/PhD kids at WashU and has only the best things to say about you all. You all sound like so much fun - smart and kinda dorky but still really really fun!
 
I'm glad applying to 20+ worked out for you, and it's awesome that you ended up at WashU.

BUT I think your situation is somewhat more unique than many other applicants. To my understanding, the vast majority of MSTP applicants are applying to do basic science research, which is, after all, the staple of MD/PhD programs. For this brand of applicants, there are going to be a significant number of spots available at each school, so the chances are pretty good that they'll get more consideration from a number of schools. On the other hand, MD/PhD applicants interested in math modeling are rare, and I would imagine that the competition for the 0-1 spots/school/yr is a bit more intense.

I agree that you really can't know where you want to go until you see the school, but if you're not actually attending the interview then you have effectively wasted your money applying. There is nothing inherent to filling out a school's secondary and receiving an interview invite that one couldn't glean by simply surfing the web about a particular school. So applying to schools and then declining interviews is really a waste of money--why not just thoroughly research 10-15 schools beforehand and then attend each of the interviews? If you get an early acceptance then I can understand declining interview invites, but if you're a good enough applicant to get an early acceptance at the schools you named, then 20+ schools is overkill in my opinion. Sure the 1000 dollars extra for 10 more secondaries is negligible compared to the stipend, satisfaction of acceptance in one's desired program, etc., but it is still 1000 dollars that probably need not be spent if an appropriate 10-15 schools are selected.

I'm not trying to pick a fight. I think it's great that you had success with 20+, and I'm sure many applicants do, but I also know many applicants that have done great with ~10 schools. Since this is the strategy I've chosen, I feel compelled to defend it here. In addition to applicants views, I'd love to hear what program directors (e.g., Maebea) have to say about this issue.


You can think about location, you can focus on schools that have a strength in your area of research, and you can consider other factors as well based on hearsay/school profiles and other such things. However, (as is commonly said about undergrad), you can't judge an MSTP without visiting. Nor can you predict who will and will not be interested in your application, regardless of your "stats". I feel pretty strongly that applying to 20+ is not only acceptable, but a good approach.

Here's my story which is one of many and varied experiences people have had with the app process. If I had applied to 10 schools instead of 20, I would probably be at University of Cincinnati's MSTP. Not that this is bad, but I would say I've done pretty well ending up, instead, at WashU.

I had connections with MSTP directors at three schools, I graduated from the undergrad of a 4th, I had alumni consideration (med school, not mstp) at a 5th, and my research mentor knew adcom people at 3 more. Of these schools, I received an interview at 2, and was accepted at one (Univ. Cincinnati). This would have comprised my list of ~10.

I received interviews at two top schools where I would have had no opportunity to pursue a PhD in the field I'm interested in (math modeling). I'm attending WashU, literally the last program I added to my list because their MCAT averages from MSAR were significantly higher than my score, and their math modeling faculty is sparse (according to the internet, and word-of-mouth). Oh, and it's in crappy St. Louis.

And guess what.. while there is no formal biomathematical modeling dept here, there are some very well-recognized and visionary faculty members in this field scattered around the university. I love it, and I dont think there's a better place in the country for me. St. Louis? It rocks. Forget all the rest who say otherwise.

I only interviewed at 8 of 20. I received a bunch more interview offers, but you take them or leave them. It's not a "waste" of time and effort if you don't go to all the interviews. Applying / paying is just part of the game to find where you'll be happiest. It doesnt make any sense to avoid spending an extra $200-1000 when you're applying to fully funded MSTP programs. You'll recover your "losses" in the first month of school. Some schools offer interviews primarily in the fall. Others don't start til january or february. Some have 2 dates, some have 8 dates. There are a few great schools that tell you their decision immediately --off the top of my head, WashU, University of Washington (can be the day after!), U. Wisconsin, U. Michigan.

Conclusions:
1. You may think you know where you want to spend the next 8 years, but you really don't until you get there. So apply to a bunch.
2. App fatigue; after secondary #6, the essays start repeating themselves (EXCEPTION: see Duke, Stanford, USC-Keck). Also, MSTP interviews are a blast, they're very social and the programs generally treat applicants very well. (very different from MD interviews)
3. This is a huge crapshoot. If you want to find the best place for you, apply to lots of schools.
 
woops my bad I did apply to Stanford, I just forgot about them due to lack of a secondary or information packet. Does Hopkins really notify that early? I thought January and March were the two times they notify applicants...


I swear I remember reading on here last year about Hopkins notifying in November, even though their website says January and March. Somebody who has already applied can correct me if I'm wrong (I'm too lazy to do a search of the old acceptance thread).
 
I swear I remember reading on here last year about Hopkins notifying in November, even though their website says January and March. Somebody who has already applied can correct me if I'm wrong (I'm too lazy to do a search of the old acceptance thread).

I think it was one outstanding applicant from Yale with like a 3.9/39 or something who was notified in November and even then, that was a very rare occurrence...but maybe you're right - who knows, i'm looking forward to going out with all of you guys during interviews (granted i get any - i'm becoming strangely superstitious)

as always, amused, bemused, confused

-j
 
I think it was one outstanding applicant from Yale with like a 3.9/39 or something who was notified in November and even then, that was a very rare occurrence...but maybe you're right - who knows, i'm looking forward to going out with all of you guys during interviews (granted i get any - i'm becoming strangely superstitious)

as always, amused, bemused, confused

-j


Well somebody has to get notified in November right? Might as well be you.

Oh, and the first time I read your post I thought you were saying "I'm looking forward to going out with all of you GUYS during interviews (granted I get any...)" and that you weren't referring to getting interviews. I guess you know where my mind is.:laugh:

anyways, I'm sure you'll do great. Hopefully we'll both get H interviews and I'll see you there in September!
 
Well somebody has to get notified in November right? Might as well be you.

Oh, and the first time I read your post I thought you were saying "I'm looking forward to going out with all of you GUYS during interviews (granted I get any...)" and that you weren't referring to getting interviews. I guess you know where my mind is.:laugh:

anyways, I'm sure you'll do great. Hopefully we'll both get H interviews and I'll see you there in September!

one word: sketch. haha, by H do you mean Hopkins? Yeah, I'd love to have a September interview just to get it over, but we'll see....I'd probably benefit from having a few 'practice' interviews before ones that really really matter (or are high stress for a variety of reasons)
 
one word: sketch. haha, by H do you mean Hopkins? Yeah, I'd love to have a September interview just to get it over, but we'll see....I'd probably benefit from having a few 'practice' interviews before ones that really really matter (or are high stress for a variety of reasons)


yeah, sketch; yeah, Hopkins; yeah, I'm hoping for practice interviews but, like you, I really want to get into a school early so I can breathe easy.
 
BUT I think your situation is somewhat more unique than many other applicants. To my understanding, the vast majority of MSTP applicants are applying to do basic science research, which is, after all, the staple of MD/PhD programs. For this brand of applicants, there are going to be a significant number of spots available at each school, so the chances are pretty good that they'll get more consideration from a number of schools. On the other hand, MD/PhD applicants interested in math modeling are rare, and I would imagine that the competition for the 0-1 spots/school/yr is a bit more intense.

I disagree--there is no quota for "modeling applicants". At some schools I interviewed at, they said "yeah, we have several other MSTPs doing that here", and at others, "what the hell is mathematical modeling??" I was accepted and rejected at both types, with relatively equal frequency (n=12) :laugh: It's true that some schools want to pigeonhole every applicant in a department, and they try to spread the applicants out a little.

All I'm saying is is that you can't sit on a website, as you suggest, and find out about schools. There are just certain key things you can't evaluate: like the administrators, for example, or the happiness of the students (and not just 1 or 2, but a bunch). Lots of other things too.

Also, I have to add another anecdote. The original reason that I applied to a bunch was because my friend (2 years my senior) at my undergrad university applied MSTP with a 3.98 double major biochem/cell&molec bio, 36 MCAT, and was not accepted to any of the 10 (I think?) schools he applied to. He was waitlisted at 5-6 of them though (!).

I agree that you really can't know where you want to go until you see the school, but if you're not actually attending the interview then you have effectively wasted your money applying. There is nothing inherent to filling out a school's secondary and receiving an interview invite that one couldn't glean by simply surfing the web about a particular school. So applying to schools and then declining interviews is really a waste of money--why not just thoroughly research 10-15 schools beforehand and then attend each of the interviews?

Because you're an outstanding applicant solitude 😉 Most people will not get 15 interviews. They'll get 10, or 5, or maybe only 1... If you're confident enough that you'll get a bunch of interviews at those 10-15 schools, by all means apply to no more. I, for one, had no such confidence when I applied. I wasn't sure if I was going to end up at Cincinnati or, say, UPenn. So I applied to every echelon in between. If I hadn't gotten accepted at WashU, I would've accepted 2-3 more interviews later in the process. Again, there was no wasted money in my opinion.

my friend is about to start the WUMP (is that what it's called?) and she knows a lot of MD/PhD kids at WashU and has only the best things to say about you all. You all sound like so much fun - smart and kinda dorky but still really really fun!

I'll be in WUMP (WashU Medical Plunge) 😀
 
I'll be in WUMP (WashU Medical Plunge) 😀

Oh yeah? I thought as MSTP, you guys couldn't do WUMP (public health stuff right?) because it would interfere with lab rotations - how'd you manage to participate?
 
Because you're an outstanding applicant solitude 😉

Yeah, reading Solitude's profile makes me want to tear up all my applications and jump off a cliff for good measure.
 
Yeah, reading Solitude's profile makes me want to tear up all my applications and jump off a cliff for good measure.

I used to think that way, but then I realized that if people like solitude are applying, and the average MCAT scores at my target schools are still about 35-36, then there have got to be matriculants on the other side of the curve; I'm just aiming to be one of those matriculants. :laugh:
 
Oh yeah? I thought as MSTP, you guys couldn't do WUMP (public health stuff right?) because it would interfere with lab rotations - how'd you manage to participate?

I'm 8 weeks into my rotation (2 weeks more than the bare minimum), and lab rotations are way more chill than I thought coming in. I've had more fun this summer than any in recent memory 😉 So I finish up my rotation this week, and start WUMP.

Actually though, my project in lab just took off, so I'll be coming in during the year to finish / submit a few papers 🙂
 
Because you're an outstanding applicant solitude 😉 Most people will not get 15 interviews. They'll get 10, or 5, or maybe only 1... If you're confident enough that you'll get a bunch of interviews at those 10-15 schools, by all means apply to no more. I, for one, had no such confidence when I applied. I wasn't sure if I was going to end up at Cincinnati or, say, UPenn. So I applied to every echelon in between. If I hadn't gotten accepted at WashU, I would've accepted 2-3 more interviews later in the process. Again, there was no wasted money in my opinion.


Thanks 🙂. I suppose our disagreement mostly comes down to the assumption of how likely the applicant is to get interviews at most schools where he/she applies, which is obviously going to depend on how he/she comes across on paper. As an applicant who luckily comes across pretty well on paper, I gravitate towards the "apply to fewer schools, then try to rock the interviews" school of thought. All I'm saying is that there are people on here (like the OP, and your 36/3.98 friend) who come across great on paper and will - in all likelihood, but nothing is guarenteed - get tons of interviews, so their time is probably better spent working on their interview skills to ensure 1-2 early acceptances than applying to even more schools.

Congrats again on WashU! What's WUMP?
 
WUMP is a pre-orientation public health program where we'll visit various clinics, often serving the under-served, and shadow doctors. E.g.: HIV clinic, sexual abuse clinic, obesity clinic, teen pregnancy support, preventive health services etc. As an MSTP applicant I felt like I focused so much on research and so little on volunteering / public health that I look forward to a change of pace.

Oh yeah: free breakfast/lunch/dinner on most days, meet ~30 or so of my classmates before orientation starts, go out every night (to bars, musicals, concerts, etc). It will be a blast 🙂
 
I applied to 12, and I would have killed myself if I had to write more than 15 secondaries. I would add a couple more, but not too many more. I think you are going to be getting a lot of interviews.
 
one word: sketch. haha, by H do you mean Hopkins? Yeah, I'd love to have a September interview just to get it over, but we'll see....I'd probably benefit from having a few 'practice' interviews before ones that really really matter (or are high stress for a variety of reasons)

Just to follow up on what people have said:

A number of schools notify before what it says on their official site; off the top of my head, Hopkins let a few people officially know in November, and Yale sends out a "you'll probably get in" email to quite a few applicants as early as February. But these tend to be exceptions to the rule.

Don't quote me on this, but I believe Hopkins had its first committee meeting recently, so get excited, but try not to freak out too much. There are people at every school that didn't interview until March, sometimes when you interview is a reflection of how much they want you, and sometimes its just a reflection on how long your app was stuck on a secretary's desk before anyone on the adcom even got a chance to see it.

Most of the MSTP interviews are really relaxed. If it makes you feel any better, Hopkins was my first interview, I was scared out of my mind, but I feel I did the best there, after a few interviews my answers became to practiced and I wasn't that enthusiastic anymore. Good luck!
 
Don't quote me on this, but I believe Hopkins had its first committee meeting recently, so get excited, but try not to freak out too much. There are people at every school that didn't interview until March, sometimes when you interview is a reflection of how much they want you, and sometimes its just a reflection on how long your app was stuck on a secretary's desk before anyone on the adcom even got a chance to see it.

And sometimes, as in my case when I applied to Hopkins, you're put in a "Hold for interview" list that almost nobody comes off of and not told of your status. They are then rude with you for calling and checking your application status even though you haven't heard anything.
 
And sometimes, as in my case when I applied to Hopkins, you're put in a "Hold for interview" list that almost nobody comes off of and not told of your status. They are then rude with you for calling and checking your application status even though you haven't heard anything.

I'm sorry you had that experience. I had the exact opposite experience, they were great, and most people I've talked to agree that one of the strengths of that program is how organized and nice the MD/PhD administration at Hopkins is.

You probably ended up talking to the MD people more than the MD/PhD office, I've heard they can be rude.

But the administrative assistants at the Hopkins office, Sharon Welling and Bernadine Harper, as well as the program director, Dr. Robert Silicano, are IMHO three of the nicest people you will meet on the interview circuit, should you apply there.
 
Just to follow up on what people have said:

A number of schools notify before what it says on their official site; off the top of my head, Hopkins let a few people officially know in November, and Yale sends out a "you'll probably get in" email to quite a few applicants as early as February. But these tend to be exceptions to the rule.

Don't quote me on this, but I believe Hopkins had its first committee meeting recently, so get excited, but try not to freak out too much. There are people at every school that didn't interview until March, sometimes when you interview is a reflection of how much they want you, and sometimes its just a reflection on how long your app was stuck on a secretary's desk before anyone on the adcom even got a chance to see it.

Most of the MSTP interviews are really relaxed. If it makes you feel any better, Hopkins was my first interview, I was scared out of my mind, but I feel I did the best there, after a few interviews my answers became to practiced and I wasn't that enthusiastic anymore. Good luck!

Yeah, I got an email from Sharon Welling saying my application was complete and was being sent to the first set of reviewers - very very scary. Do you know how far in advance Hopkins tells people about interviews? A few weeks? I'm just wondering because the email also mentioned the first round of interviews occurs at the end of September.
 
After searching through my archived emails in Outlook, I found that when I applied in the 2005-2006 cycle the order went something like this for Hopkins:

1. Submitted online secondary application on 8/9

2. Got an email from the medical school confirming a complete application on 8/25.

3. Got an email from Sharon Welling on 8/30 inviting me to come for an interview.

4. Scheduled my interview for the first interview date (9/21-9/22).

5. Got a call from Dr. Siliciano on 11/1 offering me a spot in the program.

I think Hopkins works on a modified rolling schedule (at least when I applied) and offered some spots in early November, a few in February, and the rest in March.

Feel free to ask any more questions, but I'm not sure how accurate my answers are anymore. Hope this helps, and try to not stress out too much...the interviews are actually a whole lot of fun.
 
Yeah, I got an email from Sharon Welling saying my application was complete and was being sent to the first set of reviewers - very very scary. Do you know how far in advance Hopkins tells people about interviews? A few weeks? I'm just wondering because the email also mentioned the first round of interviews occurs at the end of September.

Sorry, don't really know, and I don't want to throw out idle speculation that'll just confuse everyone.

My only advice is to relax, which I know is impossible. But if you're already worrying about when you're getting your interviews, you'll be a wreck by January, and you might not make it to March. :laugh:

After searching through my archived emails in Outlook, I found that when I applied in the 2005-2006 cycle the order went something like this for Hopkins:

1. Submitted online secondary application on 8/9

2. Got an email from the medical school confirming a complete application on 8/25.

3. Got an email from Sharon Welling on 8/30 inviting me to come for an interview.

4. Scheduled my interview for the first interview date (9/21-9/22).

5. Got a call from Dr. Siliciano on 11/1 offering me a spot in the program.

I think Hopkins works on a modified rolling schedule (at least when I applied) and offered some spots in early November, a few in February, and the rest in March.

Feel free to ask any more questions, but I'm not sure how accurate my answers are anymore. Hope this helps, and try to not stress out too much...the interviews are actually a whole lot of fun.

Congrats Titan, you were obviously an awesome candidate. But I would caution people from reading too much into the timeline posted here, many students in the current class weren't interview/accepted until much later.
 
You probably ended up talking to the MD people more than the MD/PhD office, I've heard they can be rude.

But the administrative assistants at the Hopkins office, Sharon Welling and Bernadine Harper, as well as the program director, Dr. Robert Silicano, are IMHO three of the nicest people you will meet on the interview circuit, should you apply there.

Hey, it wasn't my experience and I did only deal with the MD/PhD office. Back when this happened the first time, I posted about my phone call on SDN and one of the very active moderaters at the time was an 8th year there at that time. He said the same thing you did--that everyone there was very nice, etc..

I called back a few months later and had the same experience. Another rude response to my call. I posted again. All he could say was that they are very nice when you're a student there.

In any case, I just wanted everyone to know that Hopkins, as well as other schools, can pass over your file and not tell you until the end of the season. You should call just in case they're missing a LOR for you, but don't be too surprised if they don't want to talk to you/answer your questions because you're on the path to rejection. I've seen this a number of times personally at several schools.
 
Hey, it wasn't my experience and I did only deal with the MD/PhD office. Back when this happened the first time, I posted about my phone call on SDN and one of the very active moderaters at the time was an 8th year there at that time. He said the same thing you did--that everyone there was very nice, etc..

I called back a few months later and had the same experience. Another rude response to my call. I posted again. All he could say was that they are very nice when you're a student there.


They were rude with me as well, and I also only had contact with the MSTP administrators. I never actually got confirmation that they received my complete application until I was rejected. When I called to inquire if it was complete, I was told "it says clearly on the app that we'll contact you when it's complete..." Never heard from them, tried again in January/February-ish, same thing. Then was rejected. So I don't even know if my app was ever completed there 😉

Nicest/coolest administrators I had contact with were the two washingtons: Univ Washington and WashU.
 
They were rude with me as well, and I also only had contact with the MSTP administrators. I never actually got confirmation that they received my complete application until I was rejected. When I called to inquire if it was complete, I was told "it says clearly on the app that we'll contact you when it's complete..." Never heard from them, tried again in January/February-ish, same thing. Then was rejected. So I don't even know if my app was ever completed there 😉

Nicest/coolest administrators I had contact with were the two washingtons: Univ Washington and WashU.

Geez. Maybe calling them to inquire if your application is complete would be a good way to find early if you're accepted or not. :laugh:
 
to the OP:

apply to as many as you can afford that you WOULD go to if they said yes and it was your only option. That's sounds a little drastic, but not everyone makes the list, and the list is different for different people. think maximizing the mixture of location, your research field, is it a great mst program, is it a great med school, do their kids go far, are they supported well during the journey--- these attributes in whatever breakdown you are comfortable with.

I applied to 21 schools in amcas (if my memory serves me right), weeded a couple out at 2ndary stage. I thought the whole time that it was all an investment.

I *will* say that i took a year off after college and i probably could have weeded more out early on, but I thought going on interviews was fun-- meeting, networking, talking science and medicine with great people/ scientists/ physicians at superb institutions.

It doesn't serve you well at all to limit schools just because someone says that's *too many.* Better too many than too few. This is IT.

ESPECIALLY because when you're getting those interviews you'll know how competitive you are and may even be turning down interviews if it gets to be too much. This is a good problem and can cut costs. MUCH easier to take off than add on.

**summary: this is not the cost-cutting stage😉 no one is going to judge you on the number of schools you applied to. fyi: from a lot of applicants i've run into over the years 12-15 has been a minimum. you just never know. looking back you might call yourself 'neurotic', but in the thick of things *i remember* there are no assurances until you get that phone call...

hope this helps the OP or some other applicants
 
First of all, do not worry about how it will look to apply to 25 programs. The AAMC is the only entity that knows how many programs you designate (that is, unless you tell the schools you apply to). Still the cost and fatigue factor cannot be ignored. If you feel that you are marginally competitive for a top 10 med school, why apply to more than one or two schools in that group? If you are pretty sure that you do not want to live in New York for 7 years, that's half a dozen programs you can leave off your list.

At our program, which is fairly competitive, most of the students applied to 8 to 10 MD-PhD programs. The range is 1 to 22.

According to the AAMC, ~1,700 individuals who designated at least one MD-PhD program on their AMCAS application for the 2007 entering class. (This is an 11% increase over last year.) These 1,700 individuals generated a total of ~17,000 applications.

Of the 1,700, ~900 received at least one interview offer. There were probably a total of 2,400+ discrete MD-PhD interviews. Of those that interviewed, ~300 received no MD-PhD acceptances; a similar number received only one admissions offer and ~275 received more than one MD-PhD offer.

The credentials of the various groups are as follows:

Not interviewed: BCPM 3.5, Other 3.6, MCAT 28
Interviewed: BCPM 3.7, Other 3.8, MCAT 34
Interviewed, but Not Accepted: BCPM 3.7, Other 3.7, MCAT 33
Interviewed, One Acceptance: BCPM 3.7, Other 3.8, MCAT 34
Interviewed, Multiple Acceptances: BCPM 3.8, Other 3.8, MCAT 36
 
First of all, do not worry about how it will look to apply to 25 programs. The AAMC is the only entity that knows how many programs you designate (that is, unless you tell the schools you apply to). Still the cost and fatigue factor cannot be ignored. If you feel that you are marginally competitive for a top 10 med school, why apply to more than one or two schools in that group? If you are pretty sure that you do not want to live in New York for 7 years, that's half a dozen programs you can leave off your list.

At our program, which is fairly competitive, most of the students applied to 8 to 10 MD-PhD programs. The range is 1 to 22.

According to the AAMC, ~1,700 individuals who designated at least one MD-PhD program on their AMCAS application for the 2007 entering class. (This is an 11% increase over last year.) These 1,700 individuals generated a total of ~17,000 applications.

Of the 1,700, ~900 received at least one interview offer. There were probably a total of 2,400+ discrete MD-PhD interviews. Of those that interviewed, ~300 received no MD-PhD acceptances; a similar number received only one admissions offer and ~275 received more than one MD-PhD offer.

The credentials of the various groups are as follows:

Not interviewed: BCPM 3.5, Other 3.6, MCAT 28
Interviewed: BCPM 3.7, Other 3.8, MCAT 34
Interviewed, but Not Accepted: BCPM 3.7, Other 3.7, MCAT 33
Interviewed, One Acceptance: BCPM 3.7, Other 3.8, MCAT 34
Interviewed, Multiple Acceptances: BCPM 3.8, Other 3.8, MCAT 36

this is great info--thanks Maebea!
 
I thought I'd revive this thread a bit after choosing the schools to which I'm applying. I also think my list consists of pretty much all very competitive schools, but do not know how to go about finding less competitive programs to add. I've added all the MSTP programs in areas which I'd like to live and which offered more than seven spots last year and this is what I came up with:

UCSF, UCLA, UCSD, UCI, Stanford, Harvard, Yale, Columbia, Cornell, Mount Sinai, NYU, Virginia, Pitt, Penn, Mich, Chicago, Northwestern, and WaStl.
Anyone have any suggestions on schools I may add?

My main research interests are in genetics and molecular biology, especially pertaining to cancer research. I have a +3.9/35Q from Berkeley and three years research experience. I've also done ~200 hours hospital volunteering and kinda shadowed a surgeon.
 
I thought I'd revive this thread a bit after choosing the schools to which I'm applying. I also think my list consists of pretty much all very competitive schools, but do not know how to go about finding less competitive programs to add. I've added all the MSTP programs in areas which I'd like to live and which offered more than seven spots last year and this is what I came up with:

UCSF, UCLA, UCSD, UCI, Stanford, Harvard, Yale, Columbia, Cornell, Mount Sinai, NYU, Virginia, Pitt, Penn, Mich, Chicago, Northwestern, and WaStl.
Anyone have any suggestions on schools I may add?

My main research interests are in genetics and molecular biology, especially pertaining to cancer research. I have a +3.9/35Q from Berkeley and three year's research experience. I've also done ~200 hours hospital volunteering and kinda shadowed a surgeon.

I think you're fine having included schools such as UCI, NYU, Mount Sinai and Virgina - all very good schools but not as competitive as the rest on your list...

best of luck!

-j
 
I thought I'd revive this thread a bit after choosing the schools to which I'm applying. I also think my list consists of pretty much all very competitive schools, but do not know how to go about finding less competitive programs to add. I've added all the MSTP programs in areas which I'd like to live and which offered more than seven spots last year and this is what I came up with:

UCSF, UCLA, UCSD, UCI, Stanford, Harvard, Yale, Columbia, Cornell, Mount Sinai, NYU, Virginia, Pitt, Penn, Mich, Chicago, Northwestern, and WaStl.
Anyone have any suggestions on schools I may add?

My main research interests are in genetics and molecular biology, especially pertaining to cancer research. I have a +3.9/35Q from Berkeley and three year's research experience. I've also done ~200 hours hospital volunteering and kinda shadowed a surgeon.

This seems sort of a catch-22. You want to apply to programs with a larger number of students, but at the same time the larger programs tend to be those at the top schools, since they receive the NIH (or other) funding to support such large programs. As a result, it is actually the lower (that sounds snobbish...I should say, the more moderately high) ranked schools (in terms of funding) that have the smaller programs and, as a result, themselves have an added dimension of difficulty for admission.

That said, I would also consider Albert Einstein at Yeshiva, and just slightly smaller programs at SUNY Stony Brook and Boston University (non-MSTP). They're excellent programs, and seem to be in your target areas.
 
Thanks for the advice guys. I'll definitely check out those schools you suggested penn.
 
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