Aproaching program about lack of support for conference attendance.

[ssttrrbbk]

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I plan on trying to match into fellowship this year and tried to go to a subspecialty related conference that I was accepted to a few months ago. As I ran into multiple problems telling my program 6 months in advance this year that I was presenting at a conference I decided to tell them 11 months in advance this year (i'm not accepted - just that i'm planning to submit). Ironically I'm on the exact same ICU rotation again next year and I was told I'd again have to use my golden weekend or days off to go and if it wasn't on the weekend that I wouldn't be able to go. (same as this year).


I plan to do academics, I've done research years in med school, being able to present is important to me and I feel really unsupported. I plan on talking to the chiefs and program director and was wondering whats typical for other programs and if anyone had similar issues.

 

[Buzz Me]

You're presenting at a conference - in the field you're interested in - and your program won't give you time off and won't support you?!

 

[SoCuteMD]

Who do you think should cover you while you are at the conference?

 

[Bacchus]

Who do you think should cover you while you are at the conference?

We're covered at a conference if we're presenting. Otherwise, there is no funding except for the 3rd year when the DO AOA residents have to go to the national conference to demonstrate competency in OMM.

 

[SoCuteMD]

We're covered at a conference if we're presenting. Otherwise, there is no funding except for the 3rd year when the DO AOA residents have to go to the national conference to demonstrate competency in OMM.

I'm in EM and we essentially have two major meetings a year. Usually, through creative scheduling, some help from residents who are on elective but aren't going, all the residents who get something accepted get to go. They don't get a shift reduction, though, they are expected to work as much as they would in a normal month and I think that's fair.

 

[Bacchus]

I'm in EM and we essentially have two major meetings a year. Usually, through creative scheduling, some help from residents who are on elective but aren't going, all the residents who get something accepted get to go. They don't get a shift reduction, though, they are expected to work as much as they would in a normal month and I think that's fair.

It seems we're the same then. Either poster presentation or topic presentation.

 

[ssttrrbbk]

You're presenting at a conference - in the field you're interested in - and your program won't give you time off and won't support you?!

Essentially thats the issue. I had this come up this year and I'm again on an ICU rotation next year when the important conference I plan to go into happens next year again. I see how in EM you would get the same number of shifts but our ICU rotations lack flexibility. We have one golden weekend and all of our days off have to be on the weekend so if I get selected for a day other than a weekend I'm told that I can just not go to the conference or if its not my golden weekend its not feasible to fly to another state for a day so then I can't go.

I'm ok with trading but I think it would help if the residency assisted in asking the covering residents or tried to find some way to work the schedule to help out but so far I've got no help.

Additionally there are two main conferences people go to. i've covered for people going to these conferences... but some how if you go to a subspecialty conference it doesn't count. I think if the program provides coverage for some residents it should do so to make other people able to go conferences.

There's only really two of us who apply to other conferences that I know of.

I honestly see it both ways. I understand the issue from the program too.

 

[gutonc]

A friend of mine in Gen Surg traded all of her days off for the month and did 3 solid weeks of Q Night home call on Vascular to be able to go to ATS this month. Sometimes you need to think outside the box and get creative with your colleagues and administration.

I'm also curious what's stopping you from swapping with a colleague since you've got a few months advanced notice.

 

[Buzz Me]

They don't get a shift reduction, though, they are expected to work as much as they would in a normal month and I think that's fair.

That might be a little different on a "wards" or ICU rotation when you're expected to work every single weekday, and leaving on any given day would be hard to make up later. Overnight/home calls, yes, but if you're supposed to work every single day that month except for four weekend days off...that's more difficult.

 

[dragonfly99]

I agree that your program is not being very supportive. This sounds like the program I went to - very "academic" in terms of how the fellows and faculty were treated but not really supportive of IM residents trying to present at conferences, etc. I understand if someone is trying to leave 3 times a year to go to some conference or something, but when it is someone's one shot at presenting something that may help in getting a competitive fellowship, I think the program should try to at least assist.

Here is what I would do at this point - I would go to whoever makes the actual night call schedule for rotations (? chief resident) and given them the dates of the conference, and explain to them what happened last year, that you got accepted to present but could not present due to being on an ICU rotation. Then ask if you can NOT be on call that weekend, and if for some reason you get assigned call that weekend, see if you can trade with someone. If the conference is not on a weekend, that becomes more problematic. It might become an issue of discussing with other residents if they can trade a couple of days with you, but realize that they are doing a big favor for you (if this is even allowed by your program - mine didn't generally allow this).

Also, if you do a paper or case presentation and get accepted to a conference and cannot go to it, I would still use it on your CV/resume, and list it as "accepted to present at conference X". Then if you get asked about it during fellowship interviews just explain that you were not allowed to go (by your program) due to being on ICU rotation. That is not a complaint just explaining factually what happened.

 

[LucidSplash]

I don't have any good advice for the OP but reading this thread makes me even more appreciative of the supportive environment at my program. Here, we have our usual academic funds each year which can be used towards one conference and you are permitted to go to that conference no matter what rotation you are on though we try to avoid going while Trauma Chief or as the Chief on the Chief service as those would be significantly inconvenient for all involved (but we make it work for those people if we have to). Additionally, any conference where one is granted a poster or presentation is an automatic extra conference for the resident and the funds for that come out of a separate pool of funds (the Surgery Foundation) and includes travel expenses, accommodations, and per diem.

Our program seems to understand that residents presenting at conferences makes the program and the attendings look good too. I suppose this thread should be good advice for those who are interviewing for programs - if you are interested in research, do not overlook asking questions to determine what the program's policies and procedures are in that area. If research is important to you, you'll want to look for programs that show their support with both $$ and willingness to adjust the schedule as necessary.

 

[dpmd]

At our program we had funding to attend one conference per year (having nothing to do with us presenting or not). There were some restrictions like interns don't get to go (but can use the money for books instead), and you aren't supposed to go while trauma chief or night float (since it screws with the schedule too much, those are months you can't take vacation either). There are also limits on how many can go to the same conference again due to issues with the schedule (we are a small program).

Now, if you are accepted to present the program will find funds for you to do so (granted if you present at a bunch of conferences you probably would have to use your one conference per year funds for one of them) and the schedule will get worked out somehow (although it might be something really painful like flying out late night before and coming back right after). Plus, if someone knows they are going to be trying to present at certain conferences we would try to make it so they aren't on a rotation that would make it difficult to do so.

With 11 months notice you would think there would be some way to change out your rotation so you aren't on ICU at the time (or you could have planned even more ahead if the schedule was made before that time).

 

[45408]

At our program we had funding to attend one conference per year (having nothing to do with us presenting or not). There were some restrictions like interns don't get to go (but can use the money for books instead), and you aren't supposed to go while trauma chief or night float (since it screws with the schedule too much, those are months you can't take vacation either). There are also limits on how many can go to the same conference again due to issues with the schedule (we are a small program).

Now, if you are accepted to present the program will find funds for you to do so (granted if you present at a bunch of conferences you probably would have to use your one conference per year funds for one of them) and the schedule will get worked out somehow (although it might be something really painful like flying out late night before and coming back right after). Plus, if someone knows they are going to be trying to present at certain conferences we would try to make it so they aren't on a rotation that would make it difficult to do so.

With 11 months notice you would think there would be some way to change out your rotation so you aren't on ICU at the time (or you could have planned even more ahead if the schedule was made before that time).

Our setup is pretty similar, and we pick a conference at the same time as our vacation scheduling, so it's all laid out way in advance. If you got something accepted at a conference, you can get money and time to do that too (which I did).

 

[ssttrrbbk]

Just an update.

I met with my program director with my adviser. We pointed out that the program provides coverage for the residents to go to the one general conference -- which is not helpful to my career. I pointed out that I have provided coverage for others to go to that conference and for some reason my conference was deemed unimportant. I pointed out that I planned farther ahead than anyone else when asking off. the program director stated that actually he never rethought it because that's how it was when he got here and not too many people have looked up or pursued other conferences. He also stated that two years ago there were barely enough residents to cover for the big conference as so many had applied and actually it really doesn't make sense to only assist residents with that conference as it would probably be easier if people spread it out to different conferences.... so in the end nothing is solved yet.

our new chairman is very into research so they think that in the next 10 months they'll come up with something. 🙂

 

[Winged Scapula]

Just an update.

I met with my program director with my adviser. We pointed out that the program provides coverage for the residents to go to the one general conference -- which is not helpful to my career. I pointed out that I have provided coverage for others to go to that conference and for some reason my conference was deemed unimportant. I pointed out that I planned farther ahead than anyone else when asking off. the program director stated that actually he never rethought it because that's how it was when he got here and not too many people have looked up or pursued other conferences. He also stated that two years ago there were barely enough residents to cover for the big conference as so many had applied and actually it really doesn't make sense to only assist residents with that conference as it would probably be easier if people spread it out to different conferences.... so in the end nothing is solved yet.

our new chairman is very into research so they think that in the next 10 months they'll come up with something. 🙂

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