Arabs in Medicine

[Spitting Camel]

I have been absolutely astounded at the lack of medical doctors that are of middle eastern descent.
It's sad that when I read all of the information about underrepresented minorities, middle easterners get clumped in the caucasian or "other asian" categories. We're bilingual (often trilingual), and have a wonderful culture, but there's apparently no one to serve the needs of the Arabic-speaking population. I've had most of my exposure in the Southern California area (Fountain Valley, Huntington Beach, and Newport Beach). Please tell me it's not like that everywhere! 🙂

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[Adapt]

Arabs are not considered underrepresented in medicine because there aren't that many Arabs living in the US as compared to Latinos and African Americans.

 

[PapaDosh]

What are you talking about Slickness? They should be considered underrepresented if proportionally there are not as many Arabs in medicine as the average race. It has nothing to do with how many live in the country.

 

[Spitting Camel]

Thanks Papa... In all of your guys' volunteer work, did you come across even 1 arab doctor? Seriously, I have older family members who are probably going to need hospital assistance soon. What will they do then? Get sub-standard care because of a language barrier?

 

[dankev]

I think Slickness is saying the fact that there are few Arab docs doesn't necessarily mean they are underrepresented, because there are so few Arabs in the US. For example, if you only come across 1 in 100 docs who's an Arab, that would be representative if the 1% Arab population (btw, I made those #s up).

 

[Shinken]

Slickness' point is that there are more Latinos and African Americans that need Latino and African American doctors to "relate" to them better.

Not to start yet another AA thread, but the whole point of the underrepresented definition and preferential treatment in Medicine was because (1) some groups have been prevented from entering Medicine in the past because of their race and (2) some *large* minority groups don't have enough doctors of their own race to treat them (this is according to the AAMC, not my opinion).

Remember, underrepresented doesn't mean "minority", and minority doesn't necessarily mean underrepresented.

 

[doc05]

there are plenty of arabs in medicine. perhaps you should visit the east coast.

 

[Adapt]

Originally posted by Shinken
Not to start yet another AA thread, but the whole point of the underrepresented definition and preferential treatment in Medicine was because (1) some groups have been prevented from entering Medicine in the past because of their race and (2) some *large* minority groups don't have enough doctors of their own race to treat them (this is according to the AAMC, not my opinion).

Yes this is what I mean. The number of hispanic and black doctors is a lot less than the number of hispanic and black people living in the US. This is the definition of underrepresented.

If there were an increase in the number of Arabs living in the US, then Arabs in medicine would then become underrepresented.

 

[Shinken]

there are plenty of arabs in medicine. perhaps you should visit the east coast.

If there are indeed plenty of Arabs in medicine then they're not underrepresented in medicine. AlreadyInDebt's argument is that there are not enough Arabs in medicine. I don't know...

 

[exmike]

Underrepresented to the AAMC pretty much means latinos, native americans, and african americans.

 

[Spitting Camel]

doc05... which part of the east coast? I have relatives in Virginia and in New York and I get the same story - tons or arab communities, little representation in all facets of life.

I also think that the numbers of Arabs in the US are drastically understated. I know for a fact that many do not fill out the census forms that the government sends out. My family didn't, thats for sure.

Maybe it is our own fault. As one of many first generation college soon-to-be graduates, I can say that we are more responsible towards our civic duties than our parents. I don't even think my mom and dad have EVER voted.

I forsee a change in the next decade or so... I just hope I can have an active role in that change.

 

[ny skindoc]

"Underrepresented" is a political definition.It applys to certain groups which are said to have poor representation in medicine due to perceived prejudice and historical mistreatment..african americans,native americans and certain hispanic groups.It has nothing whatsoever to do with trying to represent all ethnic groups in America according to their numbers in the population.There are many Arabs and Moslems in US medicine as anyone who has spent time in hospitals in Detroit,Brooklyn and New Jersey can surely attest!

 

[mosfet]

You people are confusing Arabs for other Asians. Most of the doctors practicing in the east coast, especially in ny, chicago, etc are south asians (for example Indians, pakistanis, bangladeshis, srilankans). And they are not considered to be arabs, and neither am I. I DO think there are less arab doctors in the medical field. But, what if there are not enough Arabs applying to med schools in the first place......did you think about that?

BTW, 'ny skindoc' is right on the money with the definition of 'underrepresented'.

 

[Spitting Camel]

You sound annoyed, ny skindoc... why is that?

 

[DrSal]

How do you guys feel about Arabs who are of African-descent (Egypt and westward) claiming to be African-American?

I've heard arguments to/against it..but i think it would help open some doors for those whom it applies to. There might not be a "historical" prejudice against Arabs..but..well..we all watch the news and the prejudice is there..

 

[Spitting Camel]

Mosfet: great point. I was going to mention the other asians as well and the "moslem" comment (also how it's really spelled muslim), but religion, as I see it, doesn't belong in this discussion. I am an arab, but I'm also Christian. There are tons of catholic, orthodox, byzantine, protestant and jewish arabs as well.

 

[Spitting Camel]

DrSal:

I've heard of people from Egypt applying as African-American and getting turned away when they show up at interviews. When people read African-American, they think, not to be politically incorrect, but black skin. If you are Egyptian, you better look african, not arab. It is viewed as an intentional deception.

 

[calebho501]

On an unrelated note, schools do look for diversity, including diversity in cultural background and experience. Having an arab heritage will at least set you apart from the millions of Caucasian applicants out there (OK White folks, don't flame me for it😀 )

 

[HollyJ]

In Houston, I know several Arab doctors. I don't know how this relates to the rest of the country, but there seem to be at least a few of them here.

If you're very, very good, I'll tell you a story about a young Arab med student, a young volunteer, and a hot summer night. . .😉

 

[chapinsita]

And you've been in FV, HB and Newport? Then you must not be going to the same places that I am. At the UCI med center, there seem to be plenty of arab physicians. In fact, at my interview at UCI, there were lots of arab students as well.

The AAMC changed the definition of URM to "any one determined to be underrepresented in medicine." Basically, it does depend on the US population.

For example, say there are 3 races, green, blue and purple.

# green Dr.s / # greens in US x 100% = small %

# purple Dr.s / # purples in US x 100% = large %

# blue Dr.s / # blues in US x 100% = 100%

Then the greens would be considered underrepresented in medicine. The purples would be underrepresented and the blues would be equally represented. The way I interpret the AAMC definition is that they are striving for all races to be like the "blues" in my example.

Sure there aren't many Slovenians in medical schools, and they may be minorities, but that does not mean they are underrepresented minorities.

 

[Canrenone]

Most of the doctors that I shadow or work with at the hospital are Arab or Persian.

How ironic the largest population of Arabs lives right next to the largest population of Jews.

 

[calebho501]

Los Angeles has a big population of Persian, patients and doctors alike.

Spanish is the most-requested language for interpreters at UCLA Med Center, and Farsi (Persian) comes second. I know this because I work at the Interpreter Office there.

 

[calcrew14]

Originally posted by AlreadyInDebt
I have been absolutely astounded at the lack of medical doctors that are of middle eastern descent.
It's sad that when I read all of the information about underrepresented minorities, middle easterners get clumped in the caucasian or "other asian" categories. We're bilingual (often trilingual), and have a wonderful culture, but there's apparently no one to serve the needs of the Arabic-speaking population. I've had most of my exposure in the Southern California area (Fountain Valley, Huntington Beach, and Newport Beach). Please tell me it's not like that everywhere! 🙂

I have heard of many doctors from middle east countries like Syria, Iran, Iraq etc. They are in both primary care and specialties. I have an Iranian friend whose parent is a surgeon. An Iranian hemato-oncologist is on staff at City of Hope.

There is also a free medical clinic in Davis/Sacramento area run by
students volunteers from UCD.

Regarding the lanuage barrier, every ethnic group including the US borned citizens are exposed to this same problem one time or another. There were times when patients had to see doctors who is learning how to speak English. Anyway, the problem is not as bad as you may have thought now, medical center such as City of Hope has many good interpreters. Or you can use interpreters provided by telephone company such as AT&T anytime.

Check the staff rosters at different hospital web sites and you might find a physician who fits your need.

Man, you do have a lot of medical problems. I didn't know that I can do it this long. 😀

 

[Spitting Camel]

Iranians are persian... they speak farsi. They are not arabs. Thanks, though 🙂

 

[indo]

Originally posted by doc05
there are plenty of arabs in medicine. perhaps you should visit the east coast.

Or just leave the rich neighborhoods.

 

[Spitting Camel]

Or just leave the rich neighborhoods.

Come on... what is that supposed to mean?

 

[indo]

Originally posted by AlreadyInDebt
Come on... what is that supposed to mean?

Aren't hunnington beach and newport beach pretty upscale cities? If they are I imagine you might find more diverse doctors in more diverse neighborhoods. well, at least more representative neighborhoods.

 

[Spitting Camel]

Huntington Beach is definitely not upscale. My family owns a business in the more depressed area of Huntington Beach. There are drug addicts, alcoholics, and prostitutes - believe it or not. I live in Fountain Valley, a neighboring city, and I am surrounded by Santa Ana and Costa Mesa (largely hispanic) and Garden Grove and Westminster (largely asian). We are diverse, or at least we have made tremendous progress since I was a child.

I was one colored face in a sea of whitness during elementary and middle school years, and when I went back to my schools to give back, it had completely turned around. I was shocked!!

Anyways... I heard Orange County has a bad reputation all over the U.S. I don't expect anyone to know the truth without experiencing what it's like to live behind the "Orange Curtain." I would never assume anything about other neighborhoods without experiencing them either.

 

[indo]

Originally posted by AlreadyInDebt
Huntington Beach is definitely not upscale. My family owns a business in the more depressed area of Huntington Beach. There are drug addicts, alcoholics, and prostitutes - believe it or not. I live in Fountain Valley, a neighboring city, and I am surrounded by Santa Ana and Costa Mesa (largely hispanic) and Garden Grove and Westminster (largely asian). We are diverse, or at least we have made tremendous progress since I was a child.

I was one colored face in a sea of whitness during elementary and middle school years, and when I went back to my schools to give back, it had completely turned around. I was shocked!!

Anyways... I heard Orange County has a bad reputation all over the U.S. I don't expect anyone to know the truth without experiencing what it's like to live behind the "Orange Curtain." I would never assume anything about other neighborhoods without experiencing them either.

Ahh, i was way off. OC gets a bad rep from tv shows and people who say things like "sick" "brah" "gnarly" etc. You knew who they are.
But check out some med school faculty pages and you'll see that there are quite a few Drs from the middle eastern countries. They may or may not be Arabs though.

 

[Spitting Camel]

Thanks, indo. Yeah, and I HATE that those "sick" and "brah" people represent us in the media. The media doesn't help by interviewing the most ignorant members of the human race either.
Haha

 

[jbing]

Originally posted by Canrenone


How ironic the largest population of Arabs lives right next to the largest population of Jews.

well, it would be ironic if it had evolved that way. unfortunately it's the result of invading palestinian (arab) land.

 

[jnh99]

Originally posted by jbing
well, it would be ironic if it had evolved that way. unfortunately it's the result of invading palestinian (arab) land.

I think Canrenone was referring to the large population of Arabs and Jews that live in close proximity even outside of the Middle East.

What I find ironic is that by just reading the title to this thread, "Arabs in medicine" I knew somehow that Jews would be brought into the discussion. (Though I suspected a different lead in.)

I think this reflects a more fundamental connection between Arabs and Jews.

 

[Naphtali]

Even if Arabs are underrepresented, that's probably changing. Here at Upstate (central NYS), there are quite a few Arab med students. In the area, the Arab population is essentially nil. I assume most of the Arab students are from the NYC area, and will practice there. Also, more than one from CA.

Naphtali

 

[freesolo]

my freind libyan who looks completely white is african american, sweet deal for him i guess. I dont think anyone from north africa is black, but by definition i guess they are. I wish there was a box labeled arab too on applications! I put white when there is no other, and that stinks for scholarship applications! and yes there still are applications without an other =/. I think i'll be the only arab applying to University of OK maybe that will make me stand out =p.

 

[ndi_amaka]

Can someone please educate me on the difference between Asian, Persian, and Arab??

 

[bullhorn]

Originally posted by ndi_amaka
Can someone please educate me on the difference between Asian, Persian, and Arab??

Good question...

 

[ewing]

I think the OP's question was about the language barrier faced by patients (namely his relatives) when they need medical care. I am white but I speak Pashto, Farsi, Arabic (Egyptian), Bengali, as well as French and Spanish. I think that there are many doctors who learn to speak a few of those and other useful languages. Here in NYC, our city health commissioner is Jewish and speaks Hindi/Urdu and many of the doctors working primary care in Chinatown are white/black/hispanic people who speak Chinese, Korean, or Japanese.

Seriously people, welcome to the 21st Century.

 

[mosfet]

Wow!! Maybe I need to learn another language or two, apart from the 4 that I already know.

 

[freesolo]

differences in culture between a persian and arab and different languages.

 

[mosfet]

Originally posted by ndi_amaka
Can someone please educate me on the difference between Asian, Persian, and Arab??

Asians are everybody that belong to the continent of Asia, not just chinese, japanese, etc. according to popular belief.

Persians are people from the country of Iran.

Arabs are people that stretch from egypt (which BTW is not in Asia) to Iraq. Unlike what most ppl think, not all Arabs are Muslims. Lebanon, for example, has a majority of Arab Christians. There are also Arab Jews that live in Israel. My point is, there are plenty of Arab Christians and Jews also. Afghanistan is NOT an Arab country.

South-Asians are people from the Indian sub-continent. This includes India, Pakistan, Bangladesh, Srilanka, Nepal, Bhutan, etc.. These are the people that traditionally own 711's and motels. And you see plenty of doctors also. (I can say this 'cause I am South-Asian. So don't call me racist or anything.)

Southeast-Asians are people from countries like Thailand, Burma, Vietnam, Laos, Malaysia, Singapore, etc..

East-Asians are people from China, Japan, Korea, Taiwan, Mongolia, etc..

All the above mentioned people come under the category of Asians.

That's it for my Asian studies lecture for today. Now your homework is to memorize it and digest it.

Good luck

 

[Childe]

Originally posted by ny skindoc
"Underrepresented" is a political definition.It applys to certain groups which are said to have poor representation in medicine due to perceived prejudice and historical mistreatment..african americans,native americans and certain hispanic groups.It has nothing whatsoever to do with trying to represent all ethnic groups in America according to their numbers in the population.There are many Arabs and Moslems in US medicine as anyone who has spent time in hospitals in Detroit,Brooklyn and New Jersey can surely attest!

completely incorrect
The point is to have a 'representative' sample from the population in medicine, ie: roughly the same percentage of each race in medicine as that in the population. Hence the name.

 

[Adapt]

Originally posted by mosfet
Asians are everybody that belong to the continent of Asia, not just chinese, japanese, etc. according to popular belief.

Persians are people from the country of Iran.

Arabs are people that stretch from egypt (which BTW is not in Asia) to Iraq. Unlike what most ppl think, not all Arabs are Muslims. Lebanon, for example, has a majority of Arab Christians. There are also Arab Jews that live in Israel. My point is, there are plenty of Arab Christians and Jews also. Afghanistan is NOT an Arab country.

So are Russians Asian because they live on the continent of Asia. My Russian roommate doesn't seem to think so. In addition, I have never heard that Persians are not Arab. That's interesting. I know Armenians are generally not considered Arab.

However I would have to say that Armenians and Persians and most of the people in Arab countries can be considered middle easterners.

 

[ma-bas]

Originally posted by AlreadyInDebt
I have been absolutely astounded at the lack of medical doctors that are of middle eastern descent.
It's sad that when I read all of the information about underrepresented minorities, middle easterners get clumped in the caucasian or "other asian" categories. We're bilingual (often trilingual), and have a wonderful culture, but there's apparently no one to serve the needs of the Arabic-speaking population. I've had most of my exposure in the Southern California area (Fountain Valley, Huntington Beach, and Newport Beach). Please tell me it's not like that everywhere! 🙂

I have talked about this before in other threads but I will re-cap.

You are really looking at 2 separate issues:

1) Arabs are not considered underrepresented minorities. This is true. Historically Arab immigrants did not seek minority protection like other groups, because there was a movement to assimilate. This is changing. If you do an internet search you will find incidences in Virginia, Caliornia and elsewhere where Arab-Americans are fighting for minority status to be able to compete for government contracts. It is an issue, that we as Arabs need to get involved with if we do in fact want to be considered minorities. Given the current hostile environment towards Arabs I think we should.

2) I have also read (on one of the Arab professional websites) that compared to the percentage of Arabs in the American population, Physicians and other educated professionals make up a greater percentage of their professions, which is unlike many other minority groups. If you want to learn more about Arab Americans in Medicine check out: http://www.naama.com/about_naama.htm


Moreover, the term Arab is like the term Latino/Hispanic. We share a common language and culture, but we come in all colors and religions. Each country has its own dialects and customs.

 

[lotanna]

There are a lot of Arab physicians here in Michigan, especially in metro Detroit area. This is due to the high ARab-American population here, especially Chaldeans (Christian speaking Lebanese). Infact Dearborn, a suburb of Detroit is like 70% or so Arab-American, and if you go on 7mile and Woodward, everything is in Arabic. Diversity is agreat thing, gotta love it.
That explains why I'm hooked on Middle Eastern cuisine 🙂

 

[GoodMonkey]

dearborn is said to have the highest population density of people of middle eastern /arabian descent in the US.

 

[freesolo]

thats pimp, here in OK there isnt nearly as much as michigan but im my short life time (18 years), ive seen the arab population grow from like 500 to about 8-10,000 not distributed in little communities though spread out between tulsa, okc, edmond.

 

[gary5]

Originally posted by PapaDosh
What are you talking about Slickness? They should be considered underrepresented if proportionally there are not as many Arabs in medicine as the average race. It has nothing to do with how many live in the country.

It's definitely about the racial profile of the country.

 

[Spitting Camel]

Bump... an educational thread that sparked great discussion and clarification...

 

[DrPharaohX]

How do you guys feel about Arabs who are of African-descent (Egypt and westward) claiming to be African-American?

I've heard arguments to/against it..but i think it would help open some doors for those whom it applies to. There might not be a "historical" prejudice against Arabs..but..well..we all watch the news and the prejudice is there..

DrSal:

I've heard of people from Egypt applying as African-American and getting turned away when they show up at interviews. When people read African-American, they think, not to be politically incorrect, but black skin. If you are Egyptian, you better look african, not arab. It is viewed as an intentional deception.

I work with a LOT of African American women and one time they became upset when we were discussing this very matter because they learned I put white down on applications that ask of ethnicity. I'm Egyptian which makes me North African, but I'm nowhere near black, which is of course what the "African American" appellation refers to. I do feel vexed that the Arab community in America, while a minority, is not considered one in political and social institutional affairs. I have to put "white" when I'm not even considered a minority and I'm not even American.

My reservations with using that distinction on applications is precisely because of the fear of intentional deception, as stated by Spitting Camel. Actually when I applied to college after HS, I intentionally drew another box on my paper application, wrote "Egyptian" next to it, and checked it (yes I did get into that school, if you're wondering)

 

[Adapt]

This is such an old thread. I always find it fascinating to read responses that I made ages ago. Sometimes I read it and think, what the heck was I thinking writing that. 🙂