Are most applicants qualified?

[Denver89]

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This question may be difficult to answer but whatever..

Say the applicant pool consists of 100 people, what % of that would you say is actually very well prepared for the application process? By that I mean, solid gpa and MCAT, adequate volunteering/research, and all that good stuff.

To say it another way, do med schools get a lot of applicants that may have good gpa and MCAT but look like they just don't know what they're doing, or are the low acceptance rates just low period.

Do some pre-meds just not know what they're doing?

 

[MCATBear]

I don't really have an answer for you but for a sense of how strong applicants that get in are, this website is great http://mdapplicants.com/ . It's especially interesting to pick a good school, see who was accepted, and then see all the schools that rejected them. I would guess a majority of the people applying are qualified, but there is also a good percentage that are almost qualified and hoping to get lucky. I think the % that don't know what they are doing is pretty low. It's a lot of work to even get to a point where you can apply to med school, and most people do some research before they get to that point.

 

[MaryLennox]

This question may be difficult to answer but whatever..

Say the applicant pool consists of 100 people, what % of that would you say is actually very well prepared for the application process? By that I mean, solid gpa and MCAT, adequate volunteering/research, and all that good stuff.

To say it another way, do med schools get a lot of applicants that may have good gpa and MCAT but look like they just don't know what they're doing, or are the low acceptance rates just low period.

Do some pre-meds just not know what they're doing?

i think a big percentage don't know what they are doing. sdn is NOT a representative cross section of the general premed population, IMO. i think there are lots of people who apply with low MCATs, GPAs, no shadowing, etc.

i was also talking to an adcom at a school and he said that something like half the people who submitted a primary to the school did not submit a secondary. the number in the msar is, i believe, the number of people who submitted a primary. so when you look at that number, keep in mind that all those people may not have ever been complete at that school. the true applicants-under-consideration-pool should be a lot smaller.

 

[DrYoda]

To say it another way, do med schools get a lot of applicants that may have good gpa and MCAT but look like they just don't know what they're doing, or are the low acceptance rates just low period.

Are you trying to determine why acceptance rates are low? Because thats just cause spots are limited.

 

[austinap]

I'd say in general it's actually a fairly low number of people. I'd say less than half of applicants are actually qualified to be med students. After that, the problem is just that there are a fairly limited number of seats and a large number of applicants. It'd been said before, but SDN is not a very representative sample of the applicant pool.

 

[CoolWhipp]

Met at lot of students who had great GPA and MCAT scores, but I would not let them be my doctors. Doubt the apps process filters these people. It's just a matter of limited seats like everyone else said.

 

[jtimmer1]

Mdapplicants may also be a skewed view.

 

[dw2158]

i think a big percentage don't know what they are doing. sdn is NOT a representative cross section of the general premed population, IMO. i think there are lots of people who apply with low MCATs, GPAs, no shadowing, etc.

i was also talking to an adcom at a school and he said that something like half the people who submitted a primary to the school did not submit a secondary. the number in the msar is, i believe, the number of people who submitted a primary. so when you look at that number, keep in mind that all those people may not have ever been complete at that school. the true applicants-under-consideration-pool should be a lot smaller.

what kind of school was this? half the applicants didn't submit a secondary?? 😱 jeez.

 

[acridknight]

i think a big percentage don't know what they are doing. sdn is NOT a representative cross section of the general premed population, IMO. i think there are lots of people who apply with low MCATs, GPAs, no shadowing, etc.

i was also talking to an adcom at a school and he said that something like half the people who submitted a primary to the school did not submit a secondary. the number in the msar is, i believe, the number of people who submitted a primary. so when you look at that number, keep in mind that all those people may not have ever been complete at that school. the true applicants-under-consideration-pool should be a lot smaller.

👍

I don't really have an answer for you but for a sense of how strong applicants that get in are, this website is great http://mdapplicants.com/ . It's especially interesting to pick a good school, see who was accepted, and then see all the schools that rejected them. I would guess a majority of the people applying are qualified, but there is also a good percentage that are almost qualified and hoping to get lucky. I think the % that don't know what they are doing is pretty low. It's a lot of work to even get to a point where you can apply to med school, and most people do some research before they get to that point.

👍

Also don't forget that the schools are limited by the amount of students the have seats for. If there truly was a crappy application pool, there would be unfilled seats each year. The fact that all schools fill up easily (with additional wait lists of competitive applications) means that med school applications are REALLY competitive.

 

[merryeller]

Hard to say. Traditionally, less than half of all applicants nationwide actually matriculate. Keep in mind that when you're looking at school averages, i.e. a 3.8 GPA and 35 MCAT, some applicants may have a 3.9 GPA but a 28 MCAT, or a 3.2 GPA and a 40 MCAT. In MSAR, you can find the range of numbers that applicants have applied with.

Needless to say, even if your numbers aren't stellar but you get through primary screening by some will of fate (or luck, God, Buddha, Xenu, Tom Cruise, whatever), then you're one step closer to being a doctor.

GL!

 

[MaryLennox]

what kind of school was this? half the applicants didn't submit a secondary?? 😱 jeez.

a private school that gets a LOT of apps.

my theory is when you look at the MSAR . . . some schools are like that (private schools that a LOT of people apply to as a fallback/'maybe'.) they get a huge number of apps, like 10K. then, i think what probably happens is that once students start actually filling out secondaries, these are the type of schools they cut from their list when they get overwhelmed. then on the other hand there are schools that the vast majority of people would NOT apply to unless they thought they had a good chance (like Harvard, which according to MSAR gets about 6K apps.) but i bet that a higher percentage of applicants who apply to Harvard complete their app. so the numbers probably even out to be similar- maybe 4000-5000 completed apps at each school.

this is why i think it's smart that schools like Duke have incredibly long secondaries. It's a very effective way to weed people out, and something that's entirely on the student. it's basically like applicant self-screening. the MSAR says Duke gets 5K applications- i bet you anything that the actual number of complete applicants is less than half that. I would totally apply there if it weren't for that damn calculus requirement 😡

 

[Podalarius]

The Duke secondary was absurd - I was ambivalent about going to Duke before I got it, and after seeing the five essay questions I decided it wasn't worth my time. I'd guess a lot of other applicants make the same decision, and it makes sense for Duke, since it probably keeps their yield high.

 

[Podalarius]

Completing the Harvard secondary app is easy. Click "Submit". The essays are for students who have taken time off, applying to HST, or interested in joint programs, so I'd guess close to 100% of people who submitted a primary will submit the secondary, unless they want to save the $75.

 

[dw2158]

The Duke secondary was absurd - I was ambivalent about going to Duke before I got it, and after seeing the five essay questions I decided it wasn't worth my time. I'd guess a lot of other applicants make the same decision, and it makes sense for Duke, since it probably keeps their yield high.

agreed. for some reason, when i read MaryLennox's original post i assumed that meant applicants who didn't know they had to fill out a secondary. that's why i was so surprised at the 50% figure. buuuut i'm all caught up now. guess i needed some more sleep last night 😛

 

[Excelsius]

The Duke secondary was absurd - I was ambivalent about going to Duke before I got it, and after seeing the five essay questions I decided it wasn't worth my time. I'd guess a lot of other applicants make the same decision, and it makes sense for Duke, since it probably keeps their yield high.

I thought of Duke right away too. It almost seems like half of SDN stops short of Duke secondary. In general population the rate would likely be even higher. At least on SDN you know you are going to get a tough secondary. Imagine the shock of an applicant who is running short on time and receives this large secondary.

It is a very interesting point that many students don't submit a secondary, yet MSAR counts them as complete. This is yet another reason added to the long list of why medschool numbers are generally inflated.

 

[bravofleet4]

I would say a very large percentage don't know what they're doing. I go to a premed support group and we get plenty of people who have already applied and when you listen to their stories, it's usually pretty obvious why they didn't get in. One girl hadn't even heard of MSAR when she had applied to medical schools and those she did apply to were mostly in california and new york. Another guy wrote a pretty crappy PS, applied to only tier schools, had a mediocre GPA and MCAT, and took most of his pre-req's at the CC.

I mean it's not like our counselors are much help...You prepare for medical school by taking the pre-req's and studying hard for them, but weren't you already doing that anyway? Honestly, when people say they want to go to medical school it's not like it's the far off path. Pretty much anyone with a strong GPA with a biology or chemistry major can decide in their third year to give medical school a shot and just take up some EC's and study for the MCAT. Honestly, for me, I just pick up things as I go along. Unless you have lots of people around you also applying, it can be pretty hard to know what you need and the deadline for them...

 

[Naijaba]

To say it another way, do med schools get a lot of applicants that may have good gpa and MCAT but look like they just don't know what they're doing, or are the low acceptance rates just low period.

Do some pre-meds just not know what they're doing?

Have you looked at these data:

http://www.aamc.org/data/facts/2008/mcatgpa-grid-3yrs-app-accpt.htm

The data is for 3 years, but it still give you an indication that there are some poorly informed applicants. Just look at the bottom of the first column of applicants:

2,705 applied with 5-14 MCAT scores...and 28 were accepted. Those people must have had zero knowledge of an MCAT score sufficient to get into medical school.

On the flip side, there aren't many people who have 3.6+ GPAs and 30+ MCATs that weren't accepted somewhere (76.8% or higher). This means generally that applicants with good grades and a good MCAT score were prepared enough for the application process to get accepted.

 

[Van Chowder]

Met at lot of students who had great GPA and MCAT scores, but I would not let them be my doctors. Doubt the apps process filters these people. It's just a matter of limited seats like everyone else said.

Sooo.... what are you sayiing? You would let someone with Low GPA and LOW MCAT scores be your doctor?

In other words you would not let just anyone be your doctor..

Duh..

 

[Van Chowder]

I mean it's not like our counselors are much help...You prepare for medical school by taking the pre-req's and studying hard for them, but weren't you already doing that anyway? Honestly, when people say they want to go to medical school it's not like it's the far off path. Pretty much anyone with a strong GPA with a biology or chemistry major can decide in their third year to give medical school a shot and just take up some EC's and study for the MCAT. Honestly, for me, I just pick up things as I go along. Unless you have lots of people around you also applying, it can be pretty hard to know what you need and the deadline for them...

Umm right on one count that some people have no clue what they are talking about or what they are doing.

On the flip side, when you say people should be studying hard any way, I believe you are in error. Why would you assume people inherently do well in class just because they 'should'? I know numerous people that simply care about passing their classes, because you know what, at the end of the day, they have the same GPA as those that got straight A's, and probably enjoyed their college experience a bit more.

 

[MaryLennox]

Have you looked at these data:

http://www.aamc.org/data/facts/2008/mcatgpa-grid-3yrs-app-accpt.htm

The data is for 3 years, but it still give you an indication that there are some poorly informed applicants. Just look at the bottom of the first column of applicants:

2,705 applied with 5-14 MCAT scores...and 28 were accepted. Those people must have had zero knowledge of an MCAT score sufficient to get into medical school.

On the flip side, there aren't many people who have 3.6+ GPAs and 30+ MCATs that weren't accepted somewhere (76.8% or higher). This means generally that applicants with good grades and a good MCAT score were prepared enough for the application process to get accepted.

my goodness, where???? does this include DO? (no, right?)

still though this table makes me feel good. even with my low-ish grades, if my MCAT score is within my practice ranges, i'll still have a 50-70% chance. not too shabby.

on the flip side, did you notice that only 93% of people with 3.8+ and 39+ got in?? what is wrong with the other 7%??? i guess nothing is guaranteed . . .

 

[Naijaba]

my goodness, where????

I'm guessing you meant 'who'? It's hard to believe that there were so many people willing to pay the AMCAS fee without knowing the requisite MCAT score for acceptance; but the numbers don't lie.

I only pointed out those with 5-14 MCAT scores. Based on the table 44,350 applicants applied over the past 3 years with MCAT scores in the range 5-26. They had about a 19% overall acceptance rate, with 66% of their acceptances coming from the 24-26 MCAT range with impeccable grades.

I would say that if you receive a 26 on the MCAT and choose to apply, then you are uninformed. With a little study, and definitely with an entire year of study, it is possible to raise your score by 1 or 2 points.

 

[austinap]

my goodness, where???? does this include DO? (no, right?)

still though this table makes me feel good. even with my low-ish grades, if my MCAT score is within my practice ranges, i'll still have a 50-70% chance. not too shabby.

on the flip side, did you notice that only 93% of people with 3.8+ and 39+ got in?? what is wrong with the other 7%??? i guess nothing is guaranteed . . .

No personality or life experience.

 

[muhali3]

No personality or life experience.

Yeah, those loners whose only focus in life is to get good grades and test scores, but they can't interact with people.

 

[YouNeverKnow22]

Yeah, those loners whose only focus in life is to get good grades and test scores, but they can't interact with people.

hate those people get out every once in a while and meet my friend Jack

 

[strummin]

No personality or life experience.

I always thought it was because those other 7% had such great GPA's and MCAT scores, they thought they'd almost definitely get in to the schools they were applying to and did not apply to safety schools. Other factors like applying late, not applying to enough schools or safety schools (as above), taking an year off despite being accepted etc. should also be considered.

I never understood the argument that a person who does not have much of a "personality" is not a good med school candidate. I mean, I personally would rather have a doctor who is somewhat of an introvert but brilliant at what he/she does, than an extrovert who is wonderful to talk to but has no clue about what he/she is doing.

I mean, surely these people with great GPA's/MCAT scores have proved that they are academically brilliant and more than capable of handling medical school. Besides some specialties like pediatrics etc., does having a good personality really matter THAT much?/

Btw, I specifically e-mailed AAMC about that table and was informed that it included only allopathic data, not osteopathic data.

 

[austinap]

I always thought it was because those other 7% had such great GPA's and MCAT scores, they thought they'd almost definitely get in to the schools they were applying to and did not apply to safety schools. Other factors like applying late, not applying to enough schools or safety schools (as above), taking an year off despite being accepted etc. should also be considered.

I never understood the argument that a person who does not have much of a "personality" is not a good med school candidate. I mean, I personally would rather have a doctor who is somewhat of an introvert but brilliant at what he/she does, than an extrovert who is wonderful to talk to but has no clue about what he/she is doing.

I mean, surely these people with great GPA's/MCAT scores have proved that they are academically brilliant and more than capable of handling medical school. Besides some specialties like pediatrics etc., does having a good personality really matter THAT much?/

Btw, I specifically e-mailed AAMC about that table and was informed that it included only allopathic data, not osteopathic data.

I'm sure all of those things factor in, but I think the personality plays a big role as well. I'm not talking about people just failing to be charming, but people who are socially inept and poor at communication. Communication is insanely important, and if you can't get your message across it causes problems all over the place.

There are also a lot of people that have great numbers, but not much else. Little volunteer experience, poor letters and all that jazz. If all you have are two good numbers, you're going to have a hard time. Med schools don't just want someone that will be able to survive the course work, but people that are going to change the world.