Are people who go to Ivy League dental schools significantly more likely to get into a specialty?

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artvandelay786

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I am a predental student and wondering whether going to a school like Harvard/Penn/Columbia would provide me with a significant advantage in specializing in something like oral surgery or endodontics compared to a Texas school). I know that it is significantly cheaper to go to school in Texas but does a higher probability of getting into a specialty make it a good investment to go to H/P/C?

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Yup. There are tons of threads with the actual breakdown in case you're interested. Columbia, Harvard, Penn, UNC and i think UOP have high match rates.

Why spend so much money if you're not interested in becoming a specialist?


Although last I checked, some of these schools are way cheaper than others. UNC in-state was the cheapest in the nation back when I was looking at the data, following by GRU.

Harvard was 300k I believe.
 
The problem is often misappropriated "cause and effect" in that the common denominator is the student. The school does not get you into residency, the student does. It is often thought that the Ivys specialize a lot of their students because they attract the kind of student who would want to specialize, regardless of where they went. If you have what it takes to be a student at Harvard, Penn, etc, then you have what it takes to specialize (for the most part). That said, if the student is the deciding factor in whether or not they specialize, why then pay extra for a school? I would go to the Texas school.
 
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The problem is often misappropriated "cause and effect" in that the common denominator is the student. The school does not get you into residency, the student does. It is often thought that the Ivys specialize a lot of their students because they attract the kind of student who would want to specialize, regardless of where they went. If you have what it takes to be a student at Harvard, Penn, etc, then you have what it takes to specialize (for the most part). That said, if the student is the deciding factor in whether or not they specialize, why then pay extra for a school? I would go to the Texas school.

agreed. schools also have different emphasis and appeals. for example, most GRU grads become general dentists (the website emphasizes clinical training), but that does not mean the students there cannot specialize. some do if they want/choose to. on the other hand, there are schools with high specialty % rates, providing the opportunities for the students, but that doesn't mean those student can't be general dentist (ex. 50 graduates from penn class of 2013 are entering private practice). a lot of times in my interviews in the schools known for specializing, some students state that they have no idea what they want to do, but would like to have options just in case.

since you were inquiring about harvard/columbia/penn (also penn is not h/p/c), i got some numbers from the official website.

Penn: "61.5% of 2013 graduates are pursuing postdoctoral studies." 17 students in oral surgery residencies. 50 entering private practice
( page 7/64 in... http://issuu.com/penndentaljournal/docs/pdj-fall-2013-final-aa)

Columbia: "95% in postdoc study" 8 in OMFS. they have smaller class size than Penn I believe. since 2003, 91 - 95% of the students at Columbia have pursued postdoc studies.
(http://dental.columbia.edu/page/post-doctoral-placement)

Harvard: couldn't find much information other than.. "Our experience is that 90 percent of each DMD graduating class continues their education through advanced studies." harvard has the smallest class size of 35 so the school will be super invested in these students.
(http://www.hsdm.harvard.edu/students)

UCSF and UCLA seem to have high specialty % as well. I couldn't find the info on them, but at the UCSF interview, it seemed like a "if you want to specialize, we got your back and can give you a lot for rec/activities. if you don't, you'll still graduate with 3700 clinical hours. do what you wanna do" type of feel. i was interviewed by a student who just wanted to do general dentistry and didn't care for research. Then during lunch, i talked to a D4 who was gonna go out into private practice. however, my second interviewer was an oral surgeon who was also training residents. obviously this is my personal review so take it with a grain of salt.

and since the OP is from Texas (making an educated guess here), i also just looked at Baylor but couldn't find much info which personally implies to me that that post-graduate studies are not the biggest emphasis... same with UNC and GRU website. buut it did tell me that "More than half of all the dentists in the Dallas/Fort Worth area received their dental education at the college, and nearly one-third of all dentists in Texas are TAMBCD graduates." (http://bcd.tamhsc.edu/about/)

well, that's all i got. i'm hungry for some bacon. best of luck!
 
Yes, it does give you a leg-up. Harvard and UCLA are unranked! Only the top 10% at PENN are ranked. So yeah, it does help you. The question is: is it worth the extra money? I think it's also understood that students at these schools are generally higher performers than those at many other schools. Avg. GPA at PENN/UCLA/Harvard is ~3.7/3.8. Avg. GPA at Western is ~3.3.
 
A lot of the Ivy's and other schools report GRP/AEGD as "specializing." This inflates their numbers. I remember in the Harvard interview that a significant portion of their previous class simply went on to do GPR. Not many went directly into general dentistry, however. Like said above, people who accept admission to those schools generally have their minds made up about bypassing general dentistry. I think that's a bit of a mistake, but to each their own.Go to the cheapest dental school and/or the one that will fulfill your experience most for 4 years. You're getting ahead of yourself for even leaning towards specializing without having actually gotten your hands dirty. Took my first ortho class this semester and absolutely hated it. I don't see the appeal. But maybe when I get into clinic I will. There are 9 dental specialties and a general dentist can dabble in most of them. Why limit yourself unless you absolutely fall in love with something? And if you're doing it just for money and lifestyle, I'd have to ask why you chose this profession. There's a lot more money to be made elsewhere without so much debt and opportunity cost.Texas schools are dirt cheap and provide quality education. You would be crazy to waste money to pursue an opportunity that you already have at any of those schools.
 
In other news, the declining number of worldwide pirates is causing global warming!

I don't dispute the fact that a larger percentage of people from Ivy league school send up specializing, but without a careful examination of the potential factors in play, it's disingenuous to claim that one causes the other. Ivy league schools also have a higher percentage of students who are academically excellent (Obviously, they screen for this).

Previous academic performance is probably the strongest predictor for future academic performance, so it should be wholly unsurprising that if you proverbially stack a whole class full of geniuses, that most of them will be able to amass the academic credentials to specialize.

It's my opinion that if you have the academic credentials to be accepted to an Ivy league program (or their purported "specialty school" correlaries), then you've already passed the benchmark. I think there are far more salient qualities on which to select a dental school (Cost for example?) than a classic correlation vs. causation fallacy cartwheeled into a marketing opportunity.
 
Penn: "61.5% of 2013 graduates are pursuing postdoctoral studies." 17 students in oral surgery residencies. 50 entering private practice
( page 7/64 in... http://issuu.com/penndentaljournal/docs/pdj-fall-2013-final-aa)

Columbia: "95% in postdoc study" 8 in OMFS. they have smaller class size than Penn I believe. since 2003, 91 - 95% of the students at Columbia have pursued postdoc studies.
(http://dental.columbia.edu/page/post-doctoral-placement)

It's cute that Penn includes OMFS non-categorical internships in their figures. Makes you wonder if Columbia does as well. Just remember, these are private schools that are selling a product. What you're reading on these pages is marketing. Caveat emptor.
 
I've been thinking about this lately. With debt at less than 300k in-state and approximately 400k ivy. I might assume there's over a 100k difference between the public school and the ivy (without interest). It goes without saying that one should choose the cheaper school under normal circumstances of public vs private, as both will prepare for a competent general dentist (GPR's are said to blur the lines anyways). But under the circumstances, where the student has worked hard enough to receive acceptances to both in-state and ivy, at what price point does the balance begin tipping to either side of security to specialize vs debt. In other words, I see the main advantage of attending an ivy is for specializing security because I'm sure the accomplishment of being accepted into the school and having it on your application shows adcoms evidence of a history of qualification, but when does the risk of competing for class rank in a public school outweigh the extra debt cost? It may also be helpful to beware that the extra debt difference is adding during dental school and also during the time in residency.

Honestly there's not going to be any perfect answers especially from fellow pre-dents, but maybe a little light can be shed on the topic.
 
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