As promised: my program application list

[average]

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I have stat down with my wife and considered (some very breifly) every program in the US. We have come up with a small list of programs that seem promising.
To rehash, I am looking for a smaller community, with reasonable cost for housing, and perfer warmer weather (although even more importantly -sunshine). I also threw out programs if they didn't have at least a few fellowship programs.

Without further adieu, my list of desired programs. Keep in mind as you read that I know very little about most of these programs and am basing my list mostly on location. Any suggestions are welcome.

1. University of NC (Chapel Hill, NC)- I like the sound of NC for whatever reason, thoughts anyone?
2. Duke (Durham, NC)-
3. Wake Forest (Winston-Salem, NC)-
4. Texas A&M (Temple, TX)- seemingly nice community. Hot
5. University of New Mexico- nice weather, reasonable housing, larger than desired city
6. University of Virginia (Charlottesville, virginia)- smaller college town, very expensive housing considering size of town. 300k for decent house.
7. Pitt County Memorial hospital(Greenville, NC)-good weather, small town, limited fellowship selection
8. University of Florida (Gainesville, florida)- hot and humid but smaller city with what sounds like a nice community
9. University of Oklahoma (Oklahoma City)- 1/2 million people, nice weather?
10. University of Michigan(ann arbor)- cold, smaller college town
11. Mayo (Rochester, MN)- cold!, good size town
12. University of Wisconsin (Madison, WI)- Cold!, 200k people
13. University of Minnesota (Minneapolis, MN)- cold, I've always liked minneapolis
14. Indiana university (Indianapolis, IN)- large city but with affordable housing. Nice area with many parks.
15. Beaumont (Royal Oak, MI)- outskirts of Detroit, nice community.
16. University of Iowa (Iowa City)- cold, small city

Comments and suggestions are appreciated. 😎

 

[mlw03]

I have stat down with my wife and considered (some very breifly) every program in the US. We have come up with a small list of programs that seem promising.
To rehash, I am looking for a smaller community, with reasonable cost for housing, and perfer warmer weather (although even more importantly -sunshine). I also threw out programs if they didn't have at least a few fellowship programs.

Without further adieu, my list of desired programs. Keep in mind as you read that I know very little about most of these programs and am basing my list mostly on location. Any suggestions are welcome.

1. University of NC (Chapel Hill, NC)- I like the sound of NC for whatever reason, thoughts anyone?
2. Duke (Durham, NC)-
3. Wake Forest (Winston-Salem, NC)-
4. Texas A&M (Temple, TX)- seemingly nice community. Hot
5. University of New Mexico- nice weather, reasonable housing, larger than desired city
6. University of Virginia (Charlottesville, virginia)- smaller college town, very expensive housing considering size of town. 300k for decent house.
7. Pitt County Memorial hospital(Greenville, NC)-good weather, small town, limited fellowship selection
8. University of Florida (Gainesville, florida)- hot and humid but smaller city with what sounds like a nice community
9. University of Oklahoma (Oklahoma City)- 1/2 million people, nice weather?
10. University of Michigan(ann arbor)- cold, smaller college town
11. Mayo (Rochester, MN)- cold!, good size town
12. University of Wisconsin (Madison, WI)- Cold!, 200k people
13. University of Minnesota (Minneapolis, MN)- cold, I've always liked minneapolis
14. Indiana university (Indianapolis, IN)- large city but with affordable housing. Nice area with many parks.
15. Beaumont (Royal Oak, MI)- outskirts of Detroit, nice community.
16. University of Iowa (Iowa City)- cold, small city

Comments and suggestions are appreciated. 😎

this isn't far off from the list i've generated for myself for applying to programs (be it in path or another specialty) for the c/o 2008. i'll share some gainesville comments, as that's where i did my undergrad years. it's a cool little college town in the classic sense. life revolves around the university. all the major sports, cultural events, and general activities usually have to do with UF, although their annual medieval fair was a blast and had nothing to do with UF. housing costs quite reasonable (compared to major cities), although most of the nicer housing is a good 20-30 minute drive from campus (in the 'millhopper' part of town). small but not too small in terms of stuff to do: decent bars, coffee shops, parks, shopping (although i do think the one mall stinks). i can't comment about the quality of public schools. you are right about the weather - it's a swamp - tons of bugs in the summer (which lasts at least 6 months), 3 months of winter (which gets colder than you'd think because it's inland, thus no water to mediate the temp), and 3 very pleasant months. i lived there 4 years and that was enough. but it was a fun 4 years for a 20 year old. and shands did seem like a top notch hospital - it's a major referral center for the southeast, and their brain institute is very impressive. from my very limited exposure to their path program (volunteered there a tiny bit), i remember thinking it was a good setup and that i was generally impressed. good luck with your applications and lemme know if there's any other help i can give you. i go to USF now, and would be glad to answer any Qs you have about tampa or USF that I am able to.

 

[elkchaser]

Don't forget about Colorado. I am a first year resident at UCHSC, and my wife and I were looking for many of the same things that you are looking for in a city/program and I interviewed at several of the places you listed. We were able to get into a fairly new (1998) house for around $200, albeit the drive is a little long this year. We live by the new Fitzsimmons campus so the next three years will only be a 5-10 minute commute. Great program, nice people, multiple hospitals (good thing), and several fellowship opportunities. Denver is turning out to be a great match for us, as we have a 2 year old son and there are so many things to do with kids here for not a lot of $$$. Pass to the zoo for the year was about $50 for family! Other stuff is reasonably cheap too, compared to where we came from. No regrets at all, and I would rank them #1 again in a heart-beat if I was putting together my rank list today. Good luck!

this isn't far off from the list i've generated for myself for applying to programs (be it in path or another specialty) for the c/o 2008. i'll share some gainesville comments, as that's where i did my undergrad years. it's a cool little college town in the classic sense. life revolves around the university. all the major sports, cultural events, and general activities usually have to do with UF, although their annual medieval fair was a blast and had nothing to do with UF. housing costs quite reasonable (compared to major cities), although most of the nicer housing is a good 20-30 minute drive from campus (in the 'millhopper' part of town). small but not too small in terms of stuff to do: decent bars, coffee shops, parks, shopping (although i do think the one mall stinks). i can't comment about the quality of public schools. you are right about the weather - it's a swamp - tons of bugs in the summer (which lasts at least 6 months), 3 months of winter (which gets colder than you'd think because it's inland, thus no water to mediate the temp), and 3 very pleasant months. i lived there 4 years and that was enough. but it was a fun 4 years for a 20 year old. and shands did seem like a top notch hospital - it's a major referral center for the southeast, and their brain institute is very impressive. from my very limited exposure to their path program (volunteered there a tiny bit), i remember thinking it was a good setup and that i was generally impressed. good luck with your applications and lemme know if there's any other help i can give you. i go to USF now, and would be glad to answer any Qs you have about tampa or USF that I am able to.

 

[Click Here!]

You may also want to look into University of Arkansas. I've heard it has a decent program and it has a few fellowships (including dermpath, which hasn't been mentioned in this thread yet).

Little Rock is a smaller city, affordable, warm, and sunny. It's also the location of the Clinton presidential library, which IMO looks like a mobile home hanging over the Arkansas river. Quite appropriate, actually. 🙄

 

[average]

Don't forget about Colorado. I am a first year resident at UCHSC, and my wife and I were looking for many of the same things that you are looking for in a city/program and I interviewed at several of the places you listed. We were able to get into a fairly new (1998) house for around $200, albeit the drive is a little long this year. We live by the new Fitzsimmons campus so the next three years will only be a 5-10 minute commute. Great program, nice people, multiple hospitals (good thing), and several fellowship opportunities. Denver is turning out to be a great match for us, as we have a 2 year old son and there are so many things to do with kids here for not a lot of $$$. Pass to the zoo for the year was about $50 for family! Other stuff is reasonably cheap too, compared to where we came from. No regrets at all, and I would rank them #1 again in a heart-beat if I was putting together my rank list today. Good luck!

Thankyou for the suggestion. I will have to talk to the wife about this one. Colorado was looked at early and was eliminated due to the cold, but we started looking at cold, sunny cities by the end. Freida doesn't have any info on hours, vacation time, benefits?

 

[yaah]

I am not sure how much to trust the Freida info - sometimes it is outdated or frankly wrong. Especially about duty hours - that is a really subjective thing and varies so much from resident to resident. In my program, we probably have people who are here the minimum amount of time, and others who are here 60-70+ hours a week.

As far as benefits and vacation time, I would hope it would be right, but I don't know if I would trust it that much. Most programs are similar in these regards though, and you can always ask during interviews.

I think all the programs on your list are at least solid training programs - obviously some are better than others but as I have said, it varies from resident to resident what this means. I would evaluate Oklahoma carefully if you go there on an interview, I have heard (hearsay, of course, feel free to correct me) that the teaching is not as good. You have 5-6 programs on your list which are very good and fairly competitive, which I think is good.

 

[Patholog]

I have stat down with my wife and considered (some very breifly) every program in the US. We have come up with a small list of programs that seem promising.
To rehash, I am looking for a smaller community, with reasonable cost for housing, and perfer warmer weather (although even more importantly -sunshine). I also threw out programs if they didn't have at least a few fellowship programs.

Without further adieu, my list of desired programs. Keep in mind as you read that I know very little about most of these programs and am basing my list mostly on location. Any suggestions are welcome.

1. University of NC (Chapel Hill, NC)- I like the sound of NC for whatever reason, thoughts anyone?
2. Duke (Durham, NC)-
3. Wake Forest (Winston-Salem, NC)-
4. Texas A&M (Temple, TX)- seemingly nice community. Hot
5. University of New Mexico- nice weather, reasonable housing, larger than desired city
6. University of Virginia (Charlottesville, virginia)- smaller college town, very expensive housing considering size of town. 300k for decent house.
7. Pitt County Memorial hospital(Greenville, NC)-good weather, small town, limited fellowship selection
8. University of Florida (Gainesville, florida)- hot and humid but smaller city with what sounds like a nice community
9. University of Oklahoma (Oklahoma City)- 1/2 million people, nice weather?
10. University of Michigan(ann arbor)- cold, smaller college town
11. Mayo (Rochester, MN)- cold!, good size town
12. University of Wisconsin (Madison, WI)- Cold!, 200k people
13. University of Minnesota (Minneapolis, MN)- cold, I've always liked minneapolis
14. Indiana university (Indianapolis, IN)- large city but with affordable housing. Nice area with many parks.
15. Beaumont (Royal Oak, MI)- outskirts of Detroit, nice community.
16. University of Iowa (Iowa City)- cold, small city

Comments and suggestions are appreciated. 😎

It's great if you can find a great program in a great location that will take you, but to go to a lesser program because you like the weather may be a little myopic. If you train at a great program for 4 years and get a great fellowship as a result, then you can live the rest of your life in the climate/community of your choice, because chances are you will have attained a level of training that will make you in demand enough that you will be able to pick and choose. I am personally training no where near my version of paradise, but I am confident the places I have chosen for residency and fellowship will get me where I want to go for my career.

I don't know if your list is in your order of preference, but let's assume it is. There are several excellent programs on your list just kind of scattered about and several more that I do not think are very strong anymore. I don't know everything about every program, so take this for what it is worth.

Out of your possible selections, my list would include Duke, Virginia, Iowa, Mayo, UNM and maybe Indiana. Wisconsin is going through a transition now and is weird. Minnesota used to be one of the best, but no longer. Same with Michigan, from what I have heard (I'm not sure they dictate their own cases, but instead sit with staff, but I could be wrong). Don't know much about Oklahoma, UNC, Wake Forest, Beaumont, Pitt County (never even heard of it).

I hope this helps. Anyone else please feel free to tear my argument apart.

 

[average]

It's great if you can find a great program in a great location that will take you, but to go to a lesser program because you like the weather may be a little myopic. If you train at a great program for 4 years and get a great fellowship as a result, then you can live the rest of your life in the climate/community of your choice, because chances are you will have attained a level of training that will make you in demand enough that you will be able to pick and choose. I am personally training no where near my version of paradise, but I am confident the places I have chosen for residency and fellowship will get me where I want to go for my career.

I don't know if your list is in your order of preference, but let's assume it is. There are several excellent programs on your list just kind of scattered about and several more that I do not think are very strong anymore. I don't know everything about every program, so take this for what it is worth.

Out of your possible selections, my list would include Duke, Virginia, Iowa, Mayo, UNM and maybe Indiana. Wisconsin is going through a transition now and is weird. Minnesota used to be one of the best, but no longer. Same with Michigan, from what I have heard (I'm not sure they dictate their own cases, but instead sit with staff, but I could be wrong). Don't know much about Oklahoma, UNC, Wake Forest, Beaumont, Pitt County (never even heard of it).

I hope this helps. Anyone else please feel free to tear my argument apart.

Myopic perhaps. On the other hand, my wife has been putting-off much while I have been in medical school. She (and I) are sick of "putting-off" what we want for the sake of later. Where do you draw the line? Saving for retirement- Good. Putting most of your income into your retirement fund and living like a peasant- Not Good. I don't plan on going to a program, even if it sucks, just to enjoy good weather. However, I am going to make the weather and city a big part of my decision because life is short...

 

[yaah]

Same with Michigan, from what I have heard (I'm not sure they dictate their own cases, but instead sit with staff, but I could be wrong).

Well, the thing is we get the slides the day before signout, so we have as much time as we want to preview. We generally write down our diagnoses and then dictate in the morning, because every attending has different terminology. Many of the attendings will have us dictate prior to signout, and then we just review the dictation and make necessary changes. It sort of depends on whether they trust you or not - I have done it a few times. But our signout is not like other places where you just sit with staff. As I said, the preview time is key - people utilize it to varying extents though - some residents just do a cursory overview, others read about everything and formulate a differential even if they don't need to. Michigan is definitely a great program - especially recently with the addition of a couple of new good surg path attendings. I'm biased but I would put it ahead of most of the programs on your list (both because of the great attendings, rotation organization, location, and sheer amount of variety that we see). I think UVA and Michigan are fairly similar - except for U of M having more surg path type fellowships.

Duke has a lot of detractors - but has a lot of good things to make it a good program. And as has been said, Mayo is not for everyone, best to give it a critical look if one is considering it - for many people it will be the ideal program, but for many it will be the opposite.

Beaumont has a huge volume as well, lots of smart staff, but the education is not as much of a priority from what I hear. Residents do come out well trained.

 

[Patholog]

Well, the thing is we get the slides the day before signout, so we have as much time as we want to preview. We generally write down our diagnoses and then dictate in the morning, because every attending has different terminology. Many of the attendings will have us dictate prior to signout, and then we just review the dictation and make necessary changes. It sort of depends on whether they trust you or not - I have done it a few times. But our signout is not like other places where you just sit with staff. As I said, the preview time is key - people utilize it to varying extents though - some residents just do a cursory overview, others read about everything and formulate a differential even if they don't need to. Michigan is definitely a great program - especially recently with the addition of a couple of new good surg path attendings. I'm biased but I would put it ahead of most of the programs on your list (both because of the great attendings, rotation organization, location, and sheer amount of variety that we see). I think UVA and Michigan are fairly similar - except for U of M having more surg path type fellowships.

Duke has a lot of detractors - but has a lot of good things to make it a good program. And as has been said, Mayo is not for everyone, best to give it a critical look if one is considering it - for many people it will be the ideal program, but for many it will be the opposite.

Beaumont has a huge volume as well, lots of smart staff, but the education is not as much of a priority from what I hear. Residents do come out well trained.

Thanks for the info...I apologize...I was given wrong info...I heard you guys work pretty hard, too.

 

[Cabbage Head]

Beaumont has a huge volume as well, lots of smart staff, but the education is not as much of a priority from what I hear. Residents do come out well trained.

I've heard the opposite, but my n is 1.

edit: I mean I've heard they have smart staff who like to teach. Not *****s who like to teach.

 

[yaah]

I've heard the opposite, but my n is 1.

edit: I mean I've heard they have smart staff who like to teach. Not *****s who like to teach.

You might be right too. I know Goldstein is there and he is pretty focused - and I know there are a couple of other attendings who are not the most enthused about teaching, but that's probably true many places. I think, as with many programs, it depends on the resident. An enthusiastic, smart resident will get good teaching experience. A lame-o will get less of an effort in return.

 

[LADoc00]

Out of your possible selections, my list would include Duke, Virginia, Iowa, Mayo, UNM and maybe Indiana. Wisconsin is going through a transition now and is weird. Minnesota used to be one of the best, but no longer. Same with Michigan, from what I have heard (I'm not sure they dictate their own cases, but instead sit with staff, but I could be wrong). Don't know much about Oklahoma, UNC, Wake Forest, Beaumont, Pitt County (never even heard of it).

I hope this helps. Anyone else please feel free to tear my argument apart.

My list DID include: Brigham, MGH, Hopkins, Stanford and UCSF. And I only seriously considered 2 of those and turned down the Hopkins interview. And I declined to enter the match (I guess that was the good ol' days) Point: Everyone's "list" is going to be different, which is why I hate threads like this. If Pitt County is this guy's safety, then Pitt County it is, who the hell really cares. Go to the best you can get into and as for what the "best" is I have no idea. But buying a house simply for a write off on your shiatty resident salary makes no sense and buying a short-term house in the current face of a house bust also makes no sense.

 

[anencephalic]

My situation is somewhat similar to average's...trying to balance quality of education with economic and family concerns. Here's my top 15 in no particular order:

1. Indiana U
2. UNC
3. U of Iowa
4. U of Louisville, KY
5. U of Michigan
6. Wayne State, MI
7. Creighton, NE
8. Summa/NEOUCOM, OH
9. Ball U, IN
10. Brown
11. Emory
12. Medical College of Georgia
13. Medical U of South Carolina
14. Vanderbilt
15. U of Minnesota

Another key factor in my selections was whether or not programs had/have any IMGs. While I'm not naive to presume that programs that have IMG's = IMG "friendly" programs, I'm sure it doesn't hurt to be familiar with them.

 

[yaah]

There are two types of programs that take IMGs though, so be careful. Some programs take IMGs but only because they are strong researchers.

 

[LoaLoa]

Duke has a lot of detractors - but has a lot of good things to make it a good program. And as has been said, Mayo is not for everyone, best to give it a critical look if one is considering it - for many people it will be the ideal program, but for many it will be the opposite.

I'm a Duke resident (early 2nd year) and I am very happy here. We have a great bunch of residents who really get along well together. I have no second thoughts about having come here to train. Every one of our recent graduates has gotten a great fellowship spot or job offer (last year's placements: assistant professor in neuropath department at a solid academic medical center, hemepath fellowship, dermpath fellowship, cytopath fellowship) and next year's senior residents have similar prospects. There are plentiful opportunities for research (if you're into that) and faculty are happy to have residents helping with projects. Durham is a nice place to live, overall. I'd be happy to answer any questions people might have about Duke.

 

[deschutes]

For those who are interested, the UMN program combined with the Hennepin County Med Ctr - Abbott Northwestern program some years ago.

One of our grads last year is doing a fellowship out of state but will return to a paycheque from Abbott-Northwestern to the sweet tune of 160K first year, 190K second year and 260K with partnership 3rd year.

 

[anencephalic]

One of our grads last year is doing a fellowship out of state but will return to a paycheque from Abbott-Northwestern to the sweet tune of 160K first year, 190K second year and 260K with partnership 3rd year.

Yeah...I could hang with that....😀