ASD SSRI Link?

[Chimed]

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I haven't read the paper, but found this to be an interesting article. After what happened with the supposed MMR-ASD link that came out of England, I'm a little skeptical. But...this seems to make sense from a neurological standpoint and I'd like to see more data on this.

http://www.cnn.com/2011/HEALTH/07/04/antidepressant.pregnancy.autism.risk/index.html

 

[whopper]

Haven't read the paper yet myself but here's a link to it. I'm interested as well because this could be one of those papers where I actually dramatically change something I may have to do in practice vs. the several papers where it doesn't do much of anything.

http://archpsyc.ama-assn.org/cgi/content/full/archgenpsychiatry.2011.73

 

[Manicsleep]

@Chimed. Why does it make sense from a neuro standpoint?

RE: the study, only 20 exposures to SSRIs in ASD (not true autism) group is a pretty small sample. I am sure Max Wiznitzer, who already has commented in the CNN article, and Bob Findling at Case Western will be all over this study. I think the reasons why these women were getting SSRIs should be examined. It may be a case of seizures and wellbutrin. I am also curious about substance abuse as well in these mothers.

 

[Ibid]

papers where it doesn't do much of anything.

But they can be interesting as well!! Autism in pigs no less....thats has got to be a game changer....
Characterization of porcine autism susceptibility candidate 2 as a candidate gene for the number of corpora lutea in pigs.

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/21641132

 

[PETRAN]

But they can be interesting as well!! Autism in pigs no less....thats has got to be a game changer....
Characterization of porcine autism susceptibility candidate 2 as a candidate gene for the number of corpora lutea in pigs.

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/21641132

Man, do i love these studies. I wonder if there are any on goat schizophrenia

 

[Ibid]

I wonder if there are any on goat schizophrenia

I think you just might be on to something🙂.....the goat is capricorn so...

 

[Chimed]

@Chimed. Why does it make sense from a neuro standpoint?

RE: the study, only 20 exposures to SSRIs in ASD (not true autism) group is a pretty small sample. I am sure Max Wiznitzer, who already has commented in the CNN article, and Bob Findling at Case Western will be all over this study. I think the reasons why these women were getting SSRIs should be examined. It may be a case of seizures and wellbutrin. I am also curious about substance abuse as well in these mothers.

Just that higher levels of serotonin could alter neurodevelopment. Believe me, it's nothing I'd hang my hat on, but there's some rationale to it. Like I said, I'm skeptical until more evidence/studies emerge.

 

[whopper]

Spent half an hour trying to get the paper, but something' wrong with my library code...

Nuts.

When you're sleep deprived from a crying baby, all of a sudden something like this is a major pain in the butt.

 

[OldPsychDoc]

Spent half an hour trying to get the paper, but something' wrong with my library code...

Nuts.

When you're sleep deprived from a crying baby, all of a sudden something like this is a major pain in the butt.

Assuming it's your crying baby, congratulations. You should announce these things to us!

Not that sleep deprivation from call is any less irritation-producing...

 

[fiatslug]

Assuming it's your crying baby, congratulations. You should announce these things to us!

Not that sleep deprivation from call is any less irritation-producing...

Call irritation is much, much worse. Baby snuggles vs the 2 am ER ham sandwich (anyone remember the On-Call Diaries thread of yore?)--no comparison.

 

[whopper]

Yep, little girl was born a few weeks ago. The darned state job gave me 6 weeks of paternity leave! I was shocked at that. The private practice, unfortunately, nope, no one can cover for me since I'm the only psychiatrist there, same with my Court job. Testifying on 3 hours of sleep, well I tend to stutter a bit.

 

[fiatslug]

Congrats!! You'll be amazed at how little sleep you can function on. 😛

 

[dl2dp2]

Both of the articles in this issue of the Archives are very interesting. It seems that we don't really understand social skills deficit disorders very well. Keep in mind there is literally no longitudinal study of ASD since the rise of incidence in the 80s. ASD is not really even an adult disorder! There's something very odd about that. And the twin study seems contradicting existing evidence, even older twin studies, but they used a new regression model for estimating genetic vs. developmental contributions that might have some caveats.

I'm definitely eager to see follow-ups.

 

[Chimed]

Both of the articles in this issue of the Archives are very interesting. It seems that we don't really understand social skills deficit disorders very well. Keep in mind there is literally no longitudinal study of ASD since the rise of incidence in the 80s. ASD is not really even an adult disorder! There's something very odd about that. And the twin study seems contradicting existing evidence, even older twin studies, but they used a new regression model for estimating genetic vs. developmental contributions that might have some caveats.

I'm definitely eager to see follow-ups.

Not sure what you mean here. You can't outgrow ASD.

 

[OldPsychDoc]

Not sure what you mean here. You can't outgrow ASD.

I think that the point is that there really is very little research into adults with ASDs. In some ways the literature almost assumes that they do "outgrow" it. It amazes me how often we get someone admitted in crisis who really appears to have had a lifelong ASD that was either not recognized or covered up and hidden away by family members--until those parents die or end up in a nursing home and <presto> newly identified autistic adult!

 

[whopper]

I'm of the opinion that autism is currently on an evolution where people are finally, as a society, realizing it's a disorder to the point where there'll be a societal push for more research, kinda of like depression in the 80s.

I'm also wondering if someone with an autism spectrum disorder could benefit from internet social networking because the person's facial expressions are usually not seen. One of those things where I'm interested but haven't kept up with it because of other things taking higher priority....like the guy accused of murder and I bent over backwards to show he was malingering, and all the tests show he is, but the doctor on the other side insists his belief in the "robot religion" is real based on nothing objective other than the person's self-reports.

 

[Chimed]

I think that the point is that there really is very little research into adults with ASDs. In some ways the literature almost assumes that they do "outgrow" it. It amazes me how often we get someone admitted in crisis who really appears to have had a lifelong ASD that was either not recognized or covered up and hidden away by family members--until those parents die or end up in a nursing home and <presto> newly identified autistic adult!

Historically, they used to be diagnosed as Schizophrenic.

 

[PETRAN]

Historically, they used to be diagnosed as Schizophrenic.

I wonder if there is any link, at least to some types of schizophrenia (those with many negative/cognitive symptoms). There are some recent studies that propose a genetic connection


http://www.disabled-world.com/health/neurology/autism/schizophrenia-link.php

and neuropsychologically, both patient groups can fail the same tests on abstract reasoning (making concrete interpretations of stimuli) and social perception/theory-of-mind type tasks. Maybe some forms of schiz/psychosis are late-onset autistic type neural dysfunction with the paranoid ideation being the result of the person's effort to understand his newly-acquired social perception deficits (not a clue about the voices). Well maybe its a crazy idea but who knows 😛

 

[Bernardo_11]

I think that the point is that there really is very little research into adults with ASDs. In some ways the literature almost assumes that they do "outgrow" it. It amazes me how often we get someone admitted in crisis who really appears to have had a lifelong ASD that was either not recognized or covered up and hidden away by family members--until those parents die or end up in a nursing home and <presto> newly identified autistic adult!

This has happened to me once as a Developmental Pediatrician. 23 yr old young man having problems in his community college classes. During the interview had a lot of repetitive "tic-like" movements and almost scripted use of language. Found out he was intensely interested in medieval Chinese history and was able to spout out the various dynasties during certain periods of time, and he was a Filipino/Pacific Islander, not one drop of Chinese in him. Definitely Asperger's. Poor guy went through years of public schooling without proper recognition of his developmental disability.