Ask me anything - Incoming MS1 after an unsuccessful first cycle.

[JackyLin]

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Hi everyone, I would be an incoming MS1 this summer, and as a reapp, I have received invaluable advice from many on this forum, and would like to give back in any way that I can. Ask me any question, and if I can I will answer it.

Some background:

California resident, Chinese Asian

MCAT(s):
2011 - 10/9/10
2011 - 13/10/10
2013 April - 14/13/15

GPA(s)
cGPA: 3.51 (wavy trend, low/high/low/high)
sGPA: 3.45

Research: 3 years, no publications, one submission as 3rd author and a master degree completed just this winter. Total hours 2000+.

Volunteer: three hospitals, ranging duties from waiting room attendant to help families to surgical acute care intern helping with bedside tasks. Ranging from 1-4 years, total hours 300-400.

Shadow: 2 neurosurgeons and 1 cardiothoracic surgeon, total hours 60.

**for more specific and detailed list of my activities please dig up my previous posts 🙂 I can also look them up if anyone has any specific question**

First cycle stat and result:
32 schools (15-20 top 20, 5-10 rank 20-40, 5-10 around mid rank, but most are coast-heavy)
received all screened-secondaries from California (UCSF, UCLA, UCSD, UCD, UCR, UCI)
2 interviews, Duke and Michigan
0 acceptance, 2 waitlists (really only 1, Michigan doesn't reject anyone)

Second cycle stat and result:
30 schools (9 top 20, 11 rank 20-40, 10 mid rank to unranked, mid-states heavy, scattered geographically)
received all screened-secondaries except UCLA (UCSF, UCSD, Iowa, Wake Forest, Loyola)
8 interviews (Duke, Michigan, UCSD, Case Western, Ohio State, SLU, Iowa, UIC)
3 acceptances (Ohio State, Iowa, UIC) 5 waitlists (really 4, again, Michigan.)

Considering I actually have acceptances this year, and many more interviews from a spectrum of schools, I was probably doing something right/better than last cycle. The two biggest things I would bet on are 1) school selections 2) essays (primary and secondaries).

Anyway, just here to help anyway that I can. I can also help with essay reading if anyone wants to send them to me. Thank you again to all the veterans on SDN who've helped me in the process.

 

[Captain Flint]

Considering I actually have acceptances this year, and many more interviews from a spectrum of schools, I was probably doing something right/better than last cycle. The two biggest things I would bet on are 1) school selections 2) essays (primary and secondaries).

Uh no. It was probably your 42 MCAT. No interviews from 26 schools with a 3.5 GPA, 30 MCAT, excellent ECs, and they all said I needed a higher MCAT.

 

[Dro133]

I would like to hear how you went from a 33 to 42 MCAT, if you don't mind sharing.

 

[JackyLin]

Uh no. It was probably your 42 MCAT. No interviews from 26 schools with a 3.5 GPA, 30 MCAT, excellent ECs, and they all said I needed a higher MCAT.

I ruled that out since I had the 42 the first app cycle, yet didn't do well. Just deducing from what changed between the 2 cycles.

I would like to hear how you went from a 33 to 42 MCAT, if you don't mind sharing.

Personally I believe it is the study ethics you put in. When I got the 33 I was taking a princeton review course. I did what the course instructs us to do and not much more, although I know I didn't give it my all (time and effort wise). The 42 was after 4 months of following bloodysurgeon's plan almost to the neck, and pushing myself every day wanting to see how far I can get if I literally give it my all. I would say I studied on average 6+ hours a day, and used up all of the 2 weeks buffer time that I had incorporated since you never keep with plans 100%. It helped that I was in the phase of my graduate program where I finished most of my classes so I could focus on studying. If you want specific tips/impressions PM me.

 

[Captain Flint]

I ruled that out since I had the 42 the first app cycle, yet didn't do well. Just deducing from what changed between the 2 cycles.

Then it doesn't really add up. I'm assuming you sent in that score really late in the last cycle or you sent in your app really late, which technically means that regardless of the score, you wouldn't have made it anyways. Right? Not tryna cramp your style, congrats on getting in. I'm just thinking that applying relatively early with that 42 is what got you in ultimately.

 

[DrMidlife]

I buy it. This is a story about getting a 42 early and getting presentation skills late.

In 2013, the highest MCAT score was 42. There were no 43's or 44's or 45's. The data for 2014 isn't out yet. A 42 was a top 0.1% score. Which is fabulous. And which means that any intended reapplicant lessons from JackyLin boil down to "be in the top 0.1% of MCAT takers" and "yes you can actually blow it even with a 42 so don't screw around, there are no coastal safeties, get good essay review and get interview practice".

Getting Duke & Michigan interviews in that first cycle tells you that the best schools in the country will forgive much and bend over backwards to get you with a 42. And not being successful on a first cycle with a 42, given Duke & Michigan interviews, followed by a successful app cycle with the same stats, tells you exactly what JackyLin is saying: get your presentation right the first time, and don't suicide the coasts.

(...which won't matter much without good numbers, anyway.)

Best of luck to you.

 

[JackyLin]

Then it doesn't really add up. I'm assuming you sent in that score really late in the last cycle or you sent in your app really late, which technically means that regardless of the score, you wouldn't have made it anyways. Right? Not tryna cramp your style, congrats on getting in. I'm just thinking that applying relatively early with that 42 is what got you in ultimately.

I actually completed later in the second cycle, in attempt to spend more time on better and more tailored essays. (not that tailored but def not just changing the school names). Firsr time, I got my mcat score in early May, submitted primary June 5th, verified in mid July, and finished all secondaries before end of August.

This year, I submitted primary mid July, verified Aug 22, and took varying amount of time with each schools and adding some schools at a time so the secondaries don't pile on and I get too long a turn around time. I finished Ohio state and some other schools as late as mid-late September. All in effort to write better essays. I know I could've prepped earlier but anyway I completed later this year, yet I have a better cycle. Sure, the schools I got into I didn't apply last year, so you could still say my essays didn't mattered. But the lesson to apply beyond the coasts still stands.

However, I did get an interview from UCSD this year when I only got the secondary before, which would still point to the value of the essays which is pretty much the biggest change for my file. I by all means did not just wing my essays last year, having had others read for me and all, but this year with a lot more contemplation I had a more thoughtful presentation of my path and goals from prelaw to premed to put it simply, and am absolutely certain that it's significantly improved.

I understand your skepticism when schools have told you the reason is due to your MCAT score, which is a legitimate factor in everyones app. However, as Dr Midlife has noted, I'm trying to pass the messages that 1) if you believe you can do better and improve any part of your app, believe in yourself and go for it. 2) high MCAT score would not make your app alone, and applying coasts without a pretty strong and well rounded application is rather risky 3) a good and strong essay later can be better than a mediocre or even weak ones early.


I'm happy to help with any questions regarding essays, MCAT, school selection process, staying motivated etc if anyone would like, as the new cycle is drawing closer.

 

[JackyLin]

Actually my MCAT was taken in April 2013 not 2014. I applied to 2013-2014 and 2014-2015 cycles.

 

[Captain Flint]

Actually my MCAT was taken in April 2013 not 2014. I applied to 2013-2014 and 2014-2015 cycles.

Ah got it. Thanks for the clarification.

So the biggest question I had is: How'd you answer the "Why this school" questions? This last cycle, I felt that I had the toughest time with those questions because I never visited the school. The best I could do is read about their curriculum, their infrastructure, and location, but had a hard time showing exactly why I wanted to go to their school.

2nd, why the decisions to apply to states like Ohio State and Iowa that accept primarily in-state? It makes me think I should be submitting apps to those schools as well as I am an Asian in California, albeit lower MCAT score than you, similar GPA.

Thanks!

 

[JackyLin]

Rather than "why this school", I think the question you need to answer first is "what am I trying to do with my medical career?". Of course, plans change, goals transform, but I truly believe (and I suspect some of the admissions member also) that having a clear goal and direction in where you are going is better than not. This year I find myself really asking "where do I see myself in 5, 10, 15 years?" What have I done in the past, what am I passionate about? It doesn't have to be something crazy, but you want to have (or at least appear to have) a clear idea of what you are trying to do.

Want to be the #1 neurosurgeon in the world? Tell schools that you love their faculty, research facility, and neuroscience program, etc. Have a polisci and social sci background, and wanting to play a role in medicine beyond clinical duties? Tell them with confidence (but back up with past experience) that you are passionate about a goal and want to bring that passion to the school. What I realized is that I am very interested in the bigger picture of the delivery system, especially in the integration of volunteers in safety net clinics and expansion of coverage in communities. Sure, its just an idea, but I have supported this interest with activities, political science and social science background in academia, and ties it with my story so it's believable. Then I proceed to apply to schools with programs like MD/MBA and researchers working on healthcare economics/policy/management, curriculum flexibility for me to engage in more interdisiciplinary activities, and campuses that are integrated with other graduate schools for collaboration, etc. It is definitely something that I didn't have in my first cycle because I didn't dig deep enough. I expressed some slight desire, but didn't sound dedicated and somewhat undecided. Passion is attractive. Express it in your app and support it with stories and activities.

What I find is curriculum flexibility plays a role, faculty and available research plays a role, available interest groups and unique programs play a role (which is why I really want to get into Duke, because they got a residency program designed for MD/MBAs. would be closer to getting in if I were there for med school). Anyway last year, I didn't know what to look for other than grading system, curriculum, location, acceptance rate, etc. But if you think about what you want to do in your career, you will find that many more things matter.

I actually did an extensive statistic file on OOS acceptance % and interview % by many schools with my subscription to US news last year. I will attach the file to this post. It helped me select state schools with a reasonable acceptance rate for OOS applicants, for example U Mich, Ohio State, Iowa, etc. Some state schools are more OOS-friendly, while others aren't (texas. Though I still applied to two because the tuition is a big factor...19k OOS tuition?) I think I started with any state schools that has 50% OOS in their interviews/acceptances, then work down from there to a reasonable # of total schools. Know that you will eliminate some later due to "why this school" reasons so you can have more initially. Iowa and OSU both has 50%+ in the OOS in their interview pool and and acceptance pool as you can see.

On the USNews file, you can find all the schools that are on USNews, the # of OOS applicant, that got interviewed, and accepted in 2013. The % shows how many interviewes were OOS, how many acceptees were OOS, and the total acceptance rate % for OOS. I also highlighted in red schools with huge app pools (something like 9500+ or 9000+ I forgot) for risky safeties.

The finalized school list is the one I ended up applying to. You can see some of the data regarding my interviews, their LizzyM score, basically my application tracker. Curiously, I used my LizzyM score as 70 (since LizzyM suggested averaging my MCATs), and set 68-72 as target, below 68 as "safeties", 72-74 as reach, and 74+ as super reach. My record is 3 interviews from 74+ (Duke, UMich, Case), 1 from reach (Ohio state), 3 from target (UCSD, SLU, Iowa), and 1 from safety (UIC). The accepted schools are OSU, Iowa, UIC, so while the interviews span across the board (which I think is a mixture of MCAT and essays), the practical results leans closer to where your LizzyM score averages are (AkA targets).

It's a lot of text and info but I hope this helped.

P.S. moderators, please let me know if any of these files may release data that may infringe on copyrights (USNews?). I will take them off accordingly. Thanks.

 

[Captain Flint]

Wow that was really helpful. Thanks so much! Unfortunately, my MCAT score is 30, with a similar GPA as yours, so I'm basically going to have to rely on getting a great MCAT in three weeks. Congrats again. I would be ecstatic if I were you 🙂

 

[stgt9202]

did you have to get a whole new set of LOR? and what is your opinion on keeping the same PS?

 

[JackyLin]

I renewed my letter from my PI, and got two additional letters from department chair and volunteer coordinator. I rewrote my PS entirely because of the deeper understanding and presentation of my path, it depends on you but I would imagine the last year of app cycle you've done alot more self-reflection that could improve your overall PS also, so I would definitely change it.