Asking for a friend: the P word

[GypsyHummus]

Hey everyone,

So my friend was applying to schools this year. He has a solid academic record for everything except one issue: on his final paper, he was caught plagerizing. Will does he have to report this on his application and will it affect his chances at DO school? I think he still ended up passing the class because it was his first academic effect.

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[TriagePreMed]

Depends if the school took action on you, I mean "your friend." If it was just the professor that caught him and gave him a zero or something without reporting him, technically the institution didn't take action. If it ever went to a special department and an action was taken, report. If it is a reported offense, his medical school chances are over for at least few years if not forever.

 

[Goro]

If it's not an official institutional action, then he probably will get away with it. If it does end up on his application, however, we take a dim view of cheating of any sort, especially something recent.

There's good evidence that dishonest doctors start out as dishonest students, and we like breaking that chain.

Hey everyone,

So my friend was applying to schools this year. He has a solid academic record for everything except one issue: on his final paper, he was caught plagerizing. Will does he have to report this on his application and will it affect his chances at DO school? I think he still ended up passing the class because it was his first academic effect.

 

[HalfListic]

Hey everyone,

So my friend was applying to schools this year. He has a solid academic record for everything except one issue: on his final paper, he was caught plagerizing. Will does he have to report this on his application and will it affect his chances at DO school? I think he still ended up passing the class because it was his first academic effect.

There's an SDN user who plagiarized her LOI and PS from another SDN user's MDapps (both MDapps still have the stuff published on them. The plagiarizer goes to TCOM). People don't get caught plagiarizing in most cases.

Even if this is true (probably is), when they get caught, its rarely a slap on the wrist thing.

Especially when entering a profession that is held at such esteem, as is medicine, if you are caught lacking integrity/honesty, you will be tossed aside. And rightfully so. Cheaters and slackers have no place in medicine.



Tell your "friend" that law school is only 3 years and the LSAT aint all that bad.





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[HalfListic]

Even if this is true (probably is), when they get caught, its rarely a slap on the wrist thing.

Especially when entering a profession that is held at such esteem, as is medicine, if you are caught lacking integrity/honesty, you will be tossed aside. And rightfully so. Cheaters and slackers have no place in medicine.



Tell your "friend" that law school is only 3 years and the LSAT aint all that bad.





.

http://mdapplicants.com/profile.php?id=6325 Original (2006).
http://mdapplicants.com/profile.php?id=9582 Plagiarized (2010).

I meant, even if it were true that "most who plagiarize don't get caught".

 

[Mr Kenobi]

Tell your "friend" that law school is only 3 years and the LSAT aint all that bad.

 

[GypsyHummus]

So if the incident was reported, but no action was taken, does he still have to list it on the application?

Does that kind of stuff appear on a transcript?

 

[HalfListic]

So if the incident was reported, but no action was taken, does he still have to list it on the application?

Does that kind of stuff appear on a transcript?

 

[GypsyHummus]

I dont understand

 

[TriagePreMed]

So if the incident was reported, but no action was taken, does he still have to list it on the application?

Does that kind of stuff appear on a transcript?

It doesn't matter if it appears or not. It must be listed.

The scenario you present is in a grey zone. AMCAS, for example, says an institutional action must not necessarily result in a suspension. Some schools may have harsher or more lenient definitions. At this point, I'd suggest asking the school directly if this is an institutional action for their purposes. If it is, the honest thing to do is report it. If the medical school were to contact the institution, the institution would answer "yes" to an action.

 

[Mosonik]

It doesn't matter if it appears or not. It must be listed.

The scenario you present is in a grey zone. AMCAS, for example, says an institutional action must not necessarily result in a suspension. Some schools may have harsher or more lenient definitions. At this point, I'd suggest asking the school directly if this is an institutional action for their purposes. If it is, the honest thing to do is report it. If the medical school were to contact the institution, the institution would answer "yes" to an action.

I think this is some sound advice.
Doctor's make a commitment to higher ethical standards in the profession. No one is perfect, myself included, but consider this a perfect opportunity to prove both professionalism and ethical decision making. If you/they can't do the "right" thing in the application process, what chance is there when the same person is an practicing doctor? This is the trend I think Goro was pointing to.

These situations really suck and I feel for the person in the situation. Intelligent people make some pretty dumb choices sometimes and plagiarism is on the top of that list of things I see too many people do. It isn't worth it! Especially with the potential consequences being some severe as in this case.

 

[TriagePreMed]

These situations really suck and I feel for the person in the situation. Intelligent people make some pretty dumb choices sometimes and plagiarism is on the top of that list of things I see too many people do. It isn't worth it! Especially with the potential consequences being some severe as in this case.

Overall, I agree, but sometimes plagiarism charges can be a load of bull****. Say you're a freshman that doesn't know how to cite properly. You put the name of the book but forget the page number. Technically, it is plagiarism, but it's kinda bull**** to expect that level of perfect. Nevertheless, some people fall victim to that.

 

[chizledfrmstone]

Overall, I agree, but sometimes plagiarism charges can be a load of bull****. Say you're a freshman that doesn't know how to cite properly. You put the name of the book but forget the page number. Technically, it is plagiarism, but it's kinda bull**** to expect that level of perfect. Nevertheless, some people fall victim to that.

Here's one.

I had a class where 2 papers were due on the same day. I had both open and printed out the first paper. Left my desk to grab something in the kitchen and then accidently printed out the same paper when I got back. I was in the rush so I never noticed they had the same exact cover page. Turned the papers in.

A few days later I noticed I got a 0 on both assignments and was accused of cheating. I basically plagiarized from myself by turning in 2 copies. I spoke to the professor and explained the situation but was treated as a criminal. She thought I was trying to turn in the same paper hoping 2 different TAs would grade it so I could get credit for both. Took out my laptop and showed the last date edits were made to the papers was well before the due date. I was finally allowed to turn them in for 80% credit since they were late.

 

[TriagePreMed]

Here's one.

I had a class where 2 papers were due on the same day. I had both open and printed out the first paper. Left my desk to grab something in the kitchen and then accidently printed out the same paper when I got back. I was in the rush so I never noticed they had the same exact cover page. Turned the papers in.

A few days later I noticed I got a 0 on both assignments and was accused of cheating. I basically plagiarized from myself by turning in 2 copies. I spoke to the professor and explained the situation but was treated as a criminal. She thought I was trying to turn in the same paper hoping 2 different TAs would grade it so I could get credit for both. Took out my laptop and showed the last date edits were made to the papers was well before the due date. I was finally allowed to turn them in for 80% credit since they were late.

I guess at that point you have to accept the 80% credit since you're dealing with a crazy, but technically only one paper was late. Some members of academia should really not be allowed to teach. It seems their purpose is to grind students.

 

[Dr.TurkandJD]

Here's one.

I had a class where 2 papers were due on the same day. I had both open and printed out the first paper. Left my desk to grab something in the kitchen and then accidently printed out the same paper when I got back. I was in the rush so I never noticed they had the same exact cover page. Turned the papers in.

A few days later I noticed I got a 0 on both assignments and was accused of cheating. I basically plagiarized from myself by turning in 2 copies. I spoke to the professor and explained the situation but was treated as a criminal. She thought I was trying to turn in the same paper hoping 2 different TAs would grade it so I could get credit for both. Took out my laptop and showed the last date edits were made to the papers was well before the due date. I was finally allowed to turn them in for 80% credit since they were late.

Had a friend during undergrad who sent her lab-report to her lab partner due to get on the same page and share results of the experiment. Her partner copied a big chunk of her lab report, both of them were put on record for cheating. How was it the first persons fault?

 

[Mosonik]

Overall, I agree, but sometimes plagiarism charges can be a load of bull****. Say you're a freshman that doesn't know how to cite properly. You put the name of the book but forget the page number. Technically, it is plagiarism, but it's kinda bull**** to expect that level of perfect. Nevertheless, some people fall victim to that.

Yeah, I understand that. I've heard similar horror stories. This would be a whole different situation, however, with the OP, it sounded like it was too far into this person's academic career (the FINAL paper?!) to make this mistake. It's much harder to justify an error as a graduating senior.

Had a friend during undergrad who sent her lab-report to her lab partner due to get on the same page and share results of the experiment. Her partner copied a big chunk of her lab report, both of them were put on record for cheating. How was it the first persons fault?

I was always paranoid about this which is why I was cautious about who I sent final copies to. It wasn't about being a gunner, it was about not being hung out to dry for someone else's issue.

 

[NontradCA]

 

[GypsyHummus]

What my friend told me is the the incedent was reported, but only at the department level. He said to me that no institutional action was taken, and the Dean of students was not reported.

Would a medical school ever call the department?

 

[TriagePreMed]

What my friend told me is the the incedent was reported, but only at the department level. He said to me that no institutional action was taken, and the Dean of students was not reported.

Would a medical school ever call the department?

I don't think anyone will be able to tell you if it was an IA or not because it's so borderline. It really ends up being up to the applicant to report it or not.

Medical schools don't typically call the department, but the problem is not about "typically." All it takes is being the exception or having someone be a jerk, report them and the school finding out.

In my opinion, honesty and being straight up is the best policy.

 

[GypsyHummus]

I don't think anyone will be able to tell you if it was an IA or not because it's so borderline. It really ends up being up to the applicant to report it or not.

Medical schools don't typically call the department, but the problem is not about "typically." All it takes is being the exception or having someone be a jerk, report them and the school finding out.

In my opinion, honesty and being straight up is the best policy.

Where do schools usually check for the Academic dishonesty stuff? Office of the Registrar?

 

[Dr.TurkandJD]

I think if you had it, you would know.

 

[TriagePreMed]

Where do schools usually check for the Academic dishonesty stuff? Office of the Registrar?

I think schools have special departments for this. I know my undergrad did.

 

[HalfListic]

I dont understand

This was a redundant comment

 

[GypsyHummus]

This was a redundant comment

So was that. Your breakin mah back here Halflistic.