At a crossroad!

[Fisherrm30]

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Hello,
I received my bachelors in cell physiology dec 2012 and right before that applied to 6 PA Programs and 1 Direct Entry MSN Program. I unfortunately didn't get selected into any PA programs which was tough for me take on but I did get accepted to the Direct Entry Program (just barely). I only had 2 weeks to decide and I somewhat impulsively accepted the admission and have been in this program for 3 months now. I know people have their reservations about Direct Entry Programs and I am well aware of them (as I have my own) but at the time it seemed like the best move to get me where I wanted to be professionally. Anyways, I was a CNA for 2 years and loved it and I am liking some aspects to my program so far but I am having a huge problem with the lack of in depth science coming from my background. I worked in a research lab during college and I miss that. I worry I jumped into a program too fast and should have figured things out longer...I've wanted to be in healthcare since I was a child and now I'm all confused. With almost $25,000 already spent, I can't back out now. I have thought about reapplying to PA or Optometry but that is crazy. I need to make this work one way or the other! Any thoughts would be great.

Is it realistic for me to chase both of my dreams of being a NP as well as working in a lab (microbiologist for example)?

 

[pamac]

Hello,
I received my bachelors in cell physiology dec 2012 and right before that applied to 6 PA Programs and 1 Direct Entry MSN Program. I unfortunately didn't get selected into any PA programs which was tough for me take on but I did get accepted to the Direct Entry Program (just barely). I only had 2 weeks to decide and I somewhat impulsively accepted the admission and have been in this program for 3 months now. I know people have their reservations about Direct Entry Programs and I am well aware of them (as I have my own) but at the time it seemed like the best move to get me where I wanted to be professionally. Anyways, I was a CNA for 2 years and loved it and I am liking some aspects to my program so far but I am having a huge problem with the lack of in depth science coming from my background. I worked in a research lab during college and I miss that. I worry I jumped into a program too fast and should have figured things out longer...I've wanted to be in healthcare since I was a child and now I'm all confused. With almost $25,000 already spent, I can't back out now. I have thought about reapplying to PA or Optometry but that is crazy. I need to make this work one way or the other! Any thoughts would be great.

Is it realistic for me to chase both of my dreams of being a NP as well as working in a lab (microbiologist for example)?

Optometry won't give you your science fix you need (you'll be fitting folks for contact lenses and glasses.... Probably in a retail facility). It's also extremely focused. I'd be bored. PA school will teach you enough science to be functional and send you out to work in the clinical setting. Your value will be directly tied to the time you spend in front of patients. You could use the science in your head already to help you be a better NP than most of them since they rarely have heavy science backgrounds. since you've already spent 25k, why not stick it out. Then go on and do research in the nursing realm. You can always go on to something else like PA school later on.

You certainly can do both nursing and lab work (I assume you mean research). It's all possible. NP stuff is generally off the path from medical research, but you could probably find a way to leverage the one area to help you in the other. It won't be a fluid path, but I imagine it's possible. But speaking of the near term, why not finish your program and see where you are at that point. If you drop out now, you have to reapply to PA school, then wait a year for the selection process. About the time you would start PA school, you'd be finishing up NP. How do you know you will be more satisfied with the science at PA school, and not want to then go on to med school?

 

[Fisherrm30]

Thank you for the input, I needed to hear someone level headed to give me their two cents. I think you're right that Optometry may get boring after a while whereas there is so many different facets in the NP/PA world. I do hope that prospective employers will look at my scientific background and look at that as a huge plus.

Your words are very encouraging when you say I can probably do both scientific research and be a NP as well. I do think at times if I'm in school for this long why not go to med school but then again who knows if I would get in and the whole application process takes a lot of time and effort. I just don't know why I have such an uneasy feeling lately but I am hoping that will go away as I dive in further in the NP program and find a niche that I love.

 

[AnnoyedByFreud]

I'm surprised you feel you wouldn't be able to pursue an academic or research career in nursing. The nursing department at my university is very active in research, both at the basic and clinical level. Though, if you want to be a PI you will probably need a PhD in nursing or another field.

 

[deleted6669]

. I do hope that prospective employers will look at my scientific background and look at that as a huge plus.

Once you get into pa or np programs no one will ever care again what your undergrad gpa was or what your major was.
they will care about your grades in pa/np school and mostly whether or not you passed your boards.
I'm guessing most of the folks I work with don't even know what my undergrad degree was in (medical anthro). they know I graduated from PA school, did well on my boards and have been in practice for a long time.

 

[pamac]

Once you get into pa or np programs no one will ever care again what your undergrad gpa was or what your major was.
they will care about your grades in pa/np school and mostly whether or not you passed your boards.
I'm guessing most of the folks I work with don't even know what my undergrad degree was in (medical anthro). they know I graduated from PA school, did well on my boards and have been in practice for a long time.

That's a good point. Those kinds of programs tend to wipe the slate clean in their own view, and figure that they are building you into their own provider. The exception to that might be certain cases where you have some significant experience pertinent to augmenting your practice as a nonphysician provider... ie many years of nursing experience prior to NP school. I had PA programs tell me in person that they didn't care at all what one did before they got ahold of you... Quite proud of that in fact. Just get the grades and show you can hack the academics. And have a diverse background with plenty of service to demonstrate you will work with the underserved. None of my acquaintances of my generation who went on to become PAs spent much time among the "underserved" once they had completed the terms of their education reimbursement agreement and or gained acceptance to a program. They got into PA school giving the impression that they were going to work rural or urban underserved, then took advantage of debt repayment programs, then got the heck out.... On to working in lucrative, "fun" metro areas (and now armed with experience gained on learming from the underserved). Incidentally, the PAs I know that do work in the sticks are always folks with great prior hce... Folks with a track record and a reputation to uphold that keeps them from making promises they don't intend to keep.

 

[deleted6669]

None of my acquaintances of my generation who went on to become PAs spent much time among the "underserved" once they had completed the terms of their education reimbursement agreement and or gained acceptance to a program. They got into PA school giving the impression that they were going to work rural or urban underserved, then took advantage of debt repayment programs, then got the heck out.... On to working in lucrative, "fun" metro areas (and now armed with experience gained on learming from the underserved). Incidentally, the PAs I know that do work in the sticks are always folks with great prior hce... Folks with a track record and a reputation to uphold that keeps them from making promises they don't intend to keep.

the same can be said of most nps. I know lots who said they wanted to work at inner city clinics who now do cosmetic derm in urban areas.
and yes, most of the folks I know who work rural/inner city(like yours truly) had significant prior experience.

 

[pamac]

the same can be said of most nps. I know lots who said they wanted to work at inner city clinics who now do cosmetic derm in urban areas.
and yes, most of the folks I know who work rural/inner city(like yours truly) had significant prior experience.

True, but the dog and pony show is intense in the Pre PA crowd, fueled by demands from many of the direct entry programs trying to find some way to flesh out motivation in an applicant pool of youngsters.

 

[deleted6669]

True, but the dog and pony show is intense in the Pre PA crowd, fueled by demands from many of the direct entry programs trying to find some way to flesh out motivation in an applicant pool of youngsters.

Both direct entry pa and np programs are an affront to the integrity of the medical system.
neither should exist. I will likely never hire a grad of either of these types of program.
true story- I used to work with a 19 yr old pa who could order morphine but not beer. lived with her parents and drove a fancy sports car. graduated high school early as a cna with all prereqs done over summers at community college and did a 2 yr a.s. program, voila, 19 yr old PA.
have met a few really young nps as well. not a fan.

 

[Fisherrm30]

I somewhat agree with you as I'm currently in a direct entry np program (24 yrs old). I'd way rather be in a traditional program and should have just waited and reapplied to PA school. Do you think it would be crazy to apply again while I'm in this program? I'm so worried about the hiring process if I would graduate from this direct entry program. I have a BS in Cell Physiology, I'm not stupid and am very motivated and willing to learn and don't want my intelligence to be judged based on the fact that I'm in this program.

 

[pamac]

I somewhat agree with you as I'm currently in a direct entry np program (24 yrs old). I'd way rather be in a traditional program and should have just waited and reapplied to PA school. Do you think it would be crazy to apply again while I'm in this program? I'm so worried about the hiring process if I would graduate from this direct entry program. I have a BS in Cell Physiology, I'm not stupid and am very motivated and willing to learn and don't want my intelligence to be judged based on the fact that I'm in this program.

I think youd be fine. I wouldn't drop what you had to go to pa school. Both PAs and an NPs graduate and most likely go work for a physician. How would your intelligence be judged when you graduate from the best PA school in the nation and go work for a physician who went to school in the Caribbean because that was the only place they could get into because they had a way worse gpa than you? You'd spend all the money and effort to leave your program, get into another program, then end up making about the same on average as you would as an NP?

 

[RedCole]

I've learned in my extensive research that the vast majority of NP programs are a joke. The standards are far too lax (every program that applies, even for profit diploma mills, is accredited) and the variability is too great. Some NPs graduate without having ever practiced a single suture. The science is a joke as well, you won't go into detail at all on anything. I had a bachelor's in science before going on for my bachelor's in nursing, and I was routinely correcting professors (NPs) on scientific/anatomy related things - and this at a top 10 nursing program. I thought it would be better if I went to graduate school, but turns out the NP students have the EXACT same professors and use the EXACT same textbooks. Um, no thanks.

So at this point I've accepted (as you should too) that NP school will not prepare me in the way I had hoped. I plan to attend outside skills workshops and conferences while I'm in school to ensure I actually learn something, and hope for the best. They do have NP residencies now, and I will apply to one of those when I graduate to ensure I really am prepared. If I still feel incompetent, I'll look into even more training. There's nothing else we can do. I'm attending NP school because I don't have the time to commit to MD/DO school/residency and PA school is too expensive (at least where I am, they run 100K vs 20-30K for NP school). I am attending mainly for the NP title, I expect my training to be quite dubious...sigh.

 

[pamac]

I've learned in my extensive research that the vast majority of NP programs are a joke. The standards are far too lax (every program that applies, even for profit diploma mills, is accredited) and the variability is too great. Some NPs graduate without having ever practiced a single suture. The science is a joke as well, you won't go into detail at all on anything. I had a bachelor's in science before going on for my bachelor's in nursing, and I was routinely correcting professors (NPs) on scientific/anatomy related things - and this at a top 10 nursing program. I thought it would be better if I went to graduate school, but turns out the NP students have the EXACT same professors and use the EXACT same textbooks. Um, no thanks.

So at this point I've accepted (as you should too) that NP school will not prepare me in the way I had hoped. I plan to attend outside skills workshops and conferences while I'm in school to ensure I actually learn something, and hope for the best. They do have NP residencies now, and I will apply to one of those when I graduate to ensure I really am prepared. If I still feel incompetent, I'll look into even more training. There's nothing else we can do. I'm attending NP school because I don't have the time to commit to MD/DO school/residency and PA school is too expensive (at least where I am, they run 100K vs 20-30K for NP school). I am attending mainly for the NP title, I expect my training to be quite dubious...sigh.

If you really feel that way, then what does that say about you for continuing on that path? I don't agree with your blanket assessment of NPs as a whole.... But sure, I will "accept" that NP school will not prepare YOU in the way that you hope. I look around at the NPs that I know and that have mentored me, and I see very competant providers that took the same path you disparage. These folks would disagree with you too. I find it unfortunate that you expected more than what you are getting, and feel like you should go ahead and quit what you are doing. Go to PA school and have material placed before you in the structured manner that they do. Or sit and sigh your way through nursing, correcting all your instructors.

Incidentally, I had two bachelors of science degrees in biology and clinical laboratory science respectively before nursing school, and didn't find that I needed to constantly correct my professors. Nursing school was teaching me nursing, and not doing more than touching upon the subjects I had studied previously. Once or twice I overheard info that was slightly off from how I saw it, but certainly never "routinely". I did know a quack in my nursing class who was a classic malcontent, and thought that he knew more than everyone on faculty based on a previous degree and experience. Not only was he not successful, he can't even hack it as a nurse. Way too smart for everyone else I guess.

In nursing school, I worked full time, and didn't have the luxury of b!txhing and moaning about things.