At A Crossroads...

[JohnDopamine]

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Hey everyone...

This is my first post, so allow me to give some background info.. short and sweet, of course.

21 yr old male, undergrad at UCLA and about to graduate in about 6 weeks. I'm currently a Psychology major.

Ever since I was young, and strangely, I can remember all the way back to elementary school.. I wanted to go to UCLA and become a doctor. Well, here I am (almost) with my B.A. in Psych. Needless to say, I made some decisions about my career after high school that were different than what I originally had planned. I decided that I wanted to do Psych because it interested me greatly, but also because my choices in CC courses sort of allowed me to stumble into the pre-Psych requirements that were needed to transfer. I then decided to stick with Psych, although the idea of switching majors was always floating in my head. The problem was that I wasn't informed and didn't dedicate myself enough to ask questions that were looming around me.

So to keep things as short as possible, I've been doing tons of research on job outlooks, attended career conferences, and realized that perhaps Psychology isn't exactly what I had been wishing for it to be. So in comes the monkey on my back..

I'm beginning to really consider med school, more seriously than I have ever before. I'm almost done with school, yet here I am thinking twice about if I made the right decision. Instead of wallowing in regret, I want to look for guidance (something I should've done earlier). I stumbled upon this place and from the looks of it, a lot of you guys are really awesome and provide a lot of help for people confused like myself.

So what I came for is this... what are my options? What would you do? I've done some research on postbacc programs, but don't know enough. I can currently stay a year after because I'm graduating with the bare minimum units needed, but a year after still would not cover all the needed prereqs. Would it be possible for me to take as much prereqs as possible here at UCLA... then graduate with my B.A. in Psych and take the missing prereqs in a postbacc program? Or perhaps even a community college? Community college would be much preferred, but I've heard that some offer transferrable courses for med school and some don't.

Apologies for the long post, but I really needed to make sure I painted the most accurate picture possible so you guys can get a sense of what I'm going through. This has been on my mind for quite some time now and it's definitely not easy dealing with regret. Thanks guys!

 

[Prncssbuttercup]

If you can hold off graduating until you do all the required courses, that would be your best bet. You don't need to do a post bacc unless you really have to do one. If you can take all the courses at UCLA, do it...

 

[LegendaryPunk]

Welcome! You are spot-on in your assessment of there being a lot of awesome people here who will be able to give you some guidance.

The good news: in terms of going from psych -> physician, there is nothing to regret. You chose a path, felt it out, and decided it wasn't for you. You'll probably have to do a little bit of extra work to get into med school, and even though having to wait a couple years may sound like forever, it really is not.

There are two varieties of post-bacc programs: formal and informal. Formal is organized by a school, informal is do-it-yourself. Which you enroll in depends on many factors (availability, $$$, classes needed, current GPA).

Do you have any of the general med school science requirements completed? What is your current GPA? Can you continue to take classes at UCLA after graduation?

 

[JohnDopamine]

My current GPA at UCLA is definitely not something I'm too proud of, I'm curretly at a 3.0. However, from community college I transferred in with a 3.8. I have taken bio 1 with a lab, intro physics (no lab), and stats (although not quite sure why UCLA has that as a prereq when calc is really what you need, I could be wrong perhaps?). I'm not sure if I can take classes after graduating, but I will be discussing this with my counselor next week. I can however hold off graduating and take as many prereqs as possible.

Thanks for your responses guys!

 

[Journey2become]

UG tuition is (usually) cheaper than Grad tuition, so taking all the pre-recs as an undergrad would be good in that sense.
Also, staying a bit longer in UG will give you the opportunity to raise your UG gpa which is very important in the application process.
In my experience taking classes at a CC won't hurt if you can show that you can do well in BOTH CC and University. However, you will want to check with the schools you are interested in applying at to see their requirements.

 

[clausewitz2]

I cannot advise you about UCLA specifically, but I would be very surprised if there was not some special Advanced Standing or Non-Degree student status that you can apply for to take classes. You won't get another degree out of it, but you don't need one.

If they do end up increasing the behavioral science portion of the MCAT like they are planning to, you will be in good stead with a psych background.

 

[Prncssbuttercup]

NOOOO, never apply as non-degree if you don't absolutely have to... two reasons why: 1. you are not eligible for financial aid
2. you register last, and may not get the courses you need

Stay as an UG it is the best way to go... and journey has it right on the GPA...

 

[Quik]

You are fine w/ a psych degree, that won't harm your chances at all, if anything, it'll help. I'll reaffirm the advice to delay graduation. Pick up another minor or something that legitimately allows you to stay until your pre-reqs are done, at UCLA.

Considering your CC GPA was a 3.8, and your current cum is a 3.0, you'll need to seriously buckle down to be competitive. It's time to focus and remove yourself from distractions if you really want a shot at getting into med school. In my opinion, you'll need to ace the remaining pre-reqs or come very close, but of course, this is not absolute.

edit to add: It's also time to start working on your extracurriculars. Shadowing, volunteering, and research (if you can get some experience) are all essentials. Do your best to find meaningful experiences that will be enjoyable and compliment your personality/interests well.

 

[JohnDopamine]

You are fine w/ a psych degree, that won't harm your chances at all, if anything, it'll help. I'll reaffirm the advice to delay graduation. Pick up another minor or something that legitimately allows you to stay until your pre-reqs are done, at UCLA.

Considering your CC GPA was a 3.8, and your current cum is a 3.0, you'll need to seriously buckle down to be competitive. It's time to focus and remove yourself from distractions if you really want a shot at getting into med school. In my opinion, you'll need to ace the remaining pre-reqs or come very close, but of course, this is not absolute.

edit to add: It's also time to start working on your extracurriculars. Shadowing, volunteering, and research (if you can get some experience) are all essentials. Do your best to find meaningful experiences that will be enjoyable and compliment your personality/interests well.

Yes, I wholeheartedly agree that I need to really buckle down and focus on my studies for pre-med. I will definitely do my best to get the best grades possible, I'm too focused not to. Shadowing and volunteering will definitely happen, seeing that my cousin and his wife are both doctors at a nearby hospital and both work at different private practices as well. His wife is the director of the residency program, so I'm sure she will assist me in setting up a volunteer position as well as shadowing. I have some research experience as it is for Psych for the past year, but will look for other positions if I can while I take my pre-reqs. Hopefully I'll have enough time for this too. Btw, since we're on the topic, how much does research weigh on your application? I know shadowing and volunteering does a lot, but how much in particular does research?

UG tuition is (usually) cheaper than Grad tuition, so taking all the pre-recs as an undergrad would be good in that sense.
Also, staying a bit longer in UG will give you the opportunity to raise your UG gpa which is very important in the application process.
In my experience taking classes at a CC won't hurt if you can show that you can do well in BOTH CC and University. However, you will want to check with the schools you are interested in applying at to see their requirements.

This is something I've been curious about for some time; are there CC courses that can transfer as pre-reqs for med school? I've heard some say yes.. and some say no. Any of you have any knowledge on this as well?

I cannot advise you about UCLA specifically, but I would be very surprised if there was not some special Advanced Standing or Non-Degree student status that you can apply for to take classes. You won't get another degree out of it, but you don't need one.

If they do end up increasing the behavioral science portion of the MCAT like they are planning to, you will be in good stead with a psych background.

Interesting, I'll have to take a look at this. In my opinion, staying at UCLA is a lot more cost-efficient for me than entering another program. So I'd rather apply for a non-degree, even with no financial aid, and just pay tuition there with a loan than apply elsewhere for the same courses.

Thanks all for your input, appreciate it more than you can imagine.

 

[Prncssbuttercup]

Yes, I wholeheartedly agree that I need to really buckle down and focus on my studies for pre-med. I will definitely do my best to get the best grades possible, I'm too focused not to. Shadowing and volunteering will definitely happen, seeing that my cousin and his wife are both doctors at a nearby hospital and both work at different private practices as well. His wife is the director of the residency program, so I'm sure she will assist me in setting up a volunteer position as well as shadowing. I have some research experience as it is for Psych for the past year, but will look for other positions if I can while I take my pre-reqs. Hopefully I'll have enough time for this too. Btw, since we're on the topic, how much does research weigh on your application? I know shadowing and volunteering does a lot, but how much in particular does research?



This is something I've been curious about for some time; are there CC courses that can transfer as pre-reqs for med school? I've heard some say yes.. and some say no. Any of you have any knowledge on this as well?



Interesting, I'll have to take a look at this. In my opinion, staying at UCLA is a lot more cost-efficient for me than entering another program. So I'd rather apply for a non-degree, even with no financial aid, and just pay tuition there with a loan than apply elsewhere for the same courses.

Thanks all for your input, appreciate it more than you can imagine.

Loans, even private, will be difficult to obtain (unless they are a signature loan/line of credit) as a non-degree seeking student. Stafford loans are financial aid and you wouldn't be eligible as a non-degree student. There is NO requirement you finish the degree you are supposedly seeking...

 

[clausewitz2]

Hadn't considered the financial aid implications of non-degree seeking status. Obviously depending on your financial situation, that can make a huge difference.

 

[Sinclaire]

Apply as a second degree seeking student at the university if you can. I applied as a visiting student to take science classes after I graduated with a biology degree to raise my science GPA. I could not get any loans because the bank wouldn't give college loans to non-degree seeking students, and I didn't have enough credit history for a personal loan. I tried to co-sign with my mom for one but she had recently made some late payments on her other loan so I couldn't get a loan through her. Second degree, transfer, or whatever they would put you in as a degree-seeking is better than visiting anytime financial aid wise. You do not have to finish a second bachelor's, only a master's if you start one before medical school application. Plus, degree-seeking can apply to scholar and summer research programs and internships that visiting students cannot.

 

[Journey2become]

This is something I've been curious about for some time; are there CC courses that can transfer as pre-reqs for med school? I've heard some say yes.. and some say no. Any of you have any knowledge on this as well?

I can't speak for all circumstances - but I took Gen CHM I and II at a CC then transferred them to my State University (ironically my Gen CHM teacher was also the university teacher and since our class was much smaller he could cover the material in more detail - according to him).
I do know that the university did not accept the Organic CHM from the CC so I don't imagine medical schools would either...

 

[Journey2become]

Just my two cents on why to stay as an undergrad to finish pre-recs.

• Cost of tuition (lower)

• Financial aid availability (higher for undergrads – lower for Grads – hardest for non -degree)

• Raise UG GPA (A large factor considered when applying) it would look better to have lets say a 3.4 UG GPA then a 3.0 GPA and a 4.0 non – degree seeking student. If you took a masters and did really well in that it would be heavily considered, but it's good to beef up the UG GPA if you can.

 

[JohnDopamine]

Hey, I'm similar to your situation. I went to CC, transfered to UC Davis, majored in Psych, and now I'm going into medicine. I suggest you put the year off like you said. Try to finish your General Chemestiry, Physics, and your bio sequences. You'll only need 1 more math class for UCs since the statistics does count. After you finish this year, you can go for extension or perhaps CC if there's no other option. Since you're in the LA area you'll probably have no problem getting into the CSU:LA post-bacc.

CSULA's postbacc program requires that you have taken 24 units (min) in prereqs. I don't have that many prereqs taken, it seems to be that that certification program is geared more toward students who strictly want to raise their GPA.

Here's my current plan, and let me know what you guys think...

Once I complete this quarter, I'm going to hold off on my graduation. Not sure if I'm going to take a summer class because seeing how there's no financial aid in the summer for UCLA, I'm not currently in the condition to pay off the fees for summer. As for fall quarter, because I previously had plans to graduate on time, me and 2 of my buddies have planned a trip to Europe for a month. Backpacking through 5 countries. I have all my hostels booked, and plane ticket at hand... so I will have to forego my fall quarter as well. But.... not to leave all that time wasted, after I return from Europe, I'm planning on starting my volunteering work here at a local hospital. Which then leads me to Winter '12 quarter (Jan-Mar 2012). I plan on starting to take my prereqs in winter and spring and see how much of the classes I can get done. The CC I previously went to offers Bio I & II, Chem I & II, OChem I & II, and Physics as well. I want to take as much as I can in undergrad until I reach my max units, then take whatever is leftover in CC.

My main concerns are as follows: trying to take more prereqs in UCLA than CC, being able to complete the sequence of courses in UCLA, and starting the next at the CC or vice versa. I don't want to transfer courses over from one school to the next in order to continue the sequence of courses in that series.

I will also look into UCLA's Extension Program as well. (https://www.uclaextension.edu/r/ProgramDetails.aspx?reg=CF075)

^ that seem like it has all the required courses for pre-med and more.

Thoughts? Opinions?

 

[murfettie]

Dear fellow Bruin:
I was in your situation in the spring quarter of 2007. I eventually decided against a 5th year after much consideration. Now that I will be enrolling at my first choice in August, there are some initial considerations with how I feel now that I've been through it.

The choices I considered included the following
1. formal postbac: Scripps, BM, Goucher – too expensive, too far. I had a super nice gig at UCLA hospital that I wasn't going to let it go.

2. Cal State
3. UCLA 5th year.
4. UCLA Extension

I went to CSU Northridge as a 2nd bac.

The reasons I decided against UCLA
This may or may not apply to you
- 205 unit limit. I began going to CC in high school, so I accumulated a lot of CC credits. I was very close to the unit limit near graduation.

These are likely to apply to you
- Class size:
.o .UCLA intro classes are about 300 people per lecture
.o .CSU: I'd say anywhere between 50- 100. CSUN does not have auditorium style lecture halls like at Bunche, Humanities, or Franz.
.o .Which leads to the inevitable problem of – the brutal bell curve. There is no curve at CSUN.

- Teaching quality
.o .UCLA: TAs teach these classes, basically. I'm friends with a lot of these PhD candidates at south campus. They want to finish their thesis, publish, find a job. They often feel lethargic, and stupid. They generally hope undergrads will disappear, and teaching is only to support their 20k a year income as a grad student. Many fail to prepare for discussion until 2am, the day of the discussion (Yeah, this happened last Thursday with one of my friends)
.o .CSU: The professors teach. TAs only run the labs. The tutoring center is always open, very accessible. This sounds kind of bad, but at UCLA all these resources are really stressed. It's impossible to get tutoring when I was there at least from what I remember, but at CSU, it's very easy.

- Opportunities
.o .UCLA: Hard to get into research. I guess maybe UCLA kids are more ambitious. The competition is more fierce. Everybody in molecular bio wants to be a doctor.. Seriously.
.o .CSUN: Very easy. Professors are very friendly. They really help you and train you. Most of the bio major here I know want to be nurse, NP, PA, PT, OT, military medic, nutritionist, trainer, etc. Very few actually really shoot for med school. I think it's much more chill.

- Finance
.o .UCLA: it's like what 11k a year now in tuition?
.o .CSU: still cheaper. CSU are at cheaper locations to live as well.


These are some items may be of concern to you
1. Prestige
Once you have that UCLA diploma. You are forever a UCLA grad. When I interviewed, my nametag said "UCLA", not "UCLA girl who took classes at CSU". Interviewers looked at me as a Bruin, talked to me as a Bruin. They just saw the CSU classes as some classes I took, not as part of who I am.. does that make sense? I'm a UCLA girl in everyone's eyes.
2. Finance
I think you can get loans if you are enrolled as a 2nd bach. I don't think you get grants.
3. Registration date: 2nd bachs get good registration dates at least at CSUN and CSULA from personal experience and watching other 2nd bachs. I think your 1st degree counts as some sort of bump that bumps you up in terms of reg dates.


Question to you?
1. How is staying as a 5th year non grant student cheaper than enrolling as a 2nd bach at CSU? UCLA is 11000 or so a year now?
2. If you stay on a "non-degree" 5th year, do you REALLY think you can enroll into these really crowded classes since every freshmen and their moms want to be doctors along with the severe budget cuts? Non degrees get last priority. Freshmen/athlete/honors get first dibs on classes.

I have a friend at Georgetown Med who did UCA extension, but she was working full time at Jules Stein, so this is the best she can do. Also being an employee gives you a 25% discount at extension classes.

- Community college courses that are preqs for med schools, like gchem physics, etc almost all transfer, but why don't you take it at a CSU than a CC? Check on assist.org to match course numbers.
- I'm not sure what people are telling you about grade calculation, but all the courses I took at CSUN as a 2nd bach counted towards my AMCAS ugrad GPA. I think, if the course numbers are ugrad (which will be for the classes you will be taking), they count towards your GPA on AMCAS

I don't want to rain on your parade, but if you pulled a 3.0 in psyche (I took a lot of pscyh courses at UCLA. They were not hard, and I was very lazy.) I'm not sure how you really think you can pull a 4.0 in all the science weeder classes with a bell curve, against these kids who ALREADY took AP physics in high school AP Calculus for the calculus based physics in high school? I'm pretty sure UCLA doesn't offer algebra based physics. I think all the physics classes are calculus based.

Oh, also the CSU i talk about is really CSUN, and to some extent, CSULA (bigger?). I know CSUSB, and CSUCI are similar. So, yeah, these smaller CSUs are kind of nice.

Being at UCLA is like a bubble. It is so warm and sunny, with all the pretty girls, but once you leave, this spell seems almost a little ridiculous. I will forever love UCLA and be grateful for the opportunities it has given me, but I am really glad that I did not stay on a 5th year.

I wish you the best.