Attend low tier med school for 10k per year or mid tier for 40k per year?

[Astra]

The low tier school has very little research focus and is primary care focused.

The mid tier school has lots of research opportunities and has no specialty mission.

I am currently wanting to to primary care but once I enter med school, my interests might change.

By going to the low tier school, I will have no med school debt and this will give me freedom to pursue whatever specialty I want without fear of repaying loans.

By going to the mid tier school, I will have opportunities to have a stronger residency application due to the opportunities there. In addition, the school has a higher Step 1 average than the low tier school.

Which school would you guys attend?


And to those without acceptances or interview invites, don't lose hope! I just got another II a few days ago after being complete in AUGUST! That's a 4 month wait time!

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[Cotterpin]

By going to the low tier school, I will have no med school debt and this will give me freedom to pursue whatever specialty I want without fear of repaying loans.

That sounds like a pretty ideal situation to me. Go with no debt.

A Step 1 average is just that: an average. It's up to you to score above average, so don't choose your school based on stuff like that.

 

[deleted707454]

I would make the decision on interests outside of medicine. E.g. I really like _____ and this school is in a better location for that, and I'm bound to be more socially involved, etc. Happiness would take precedent for me.

 

[libertyyne]

No brainer. lower debt. Assuming both are MD schools.

 

[Lucca]

What is a low tier MD school?

 

[libertyyne]

What is a low tier MD school?

CNU.

 

[Lawpy]

unless we're talking roughly Top 20 vs other MD schools, you should pick the cheaper MD option. i bet you can still do good research at the low tier MD school

CNU.

lol. 10k per year debt at CNU. does not compute

 

[libertyyne]

unless we're talking roughly Top 20 vs other MD schools, you should pick the cheaper MD option. i bet you can still do good research at the low tier MD school



lol. 10k per year debt at CNU. does not compute

I think it might be harder to do research at some of the newer schools or the community based teaching hospital schools and schools not affiliated with a larger university. That being said, for 100k you could write your own grant, take a year off to pursue research away from the med school , etc etc. It is a lot of money.

 

[Lawpy]

I think it might be harder to do research at some of the newer schools or the community based teaching hospital schools and schools not affiliated with a larger university. That being said, for 100k you could write your own grant, take a year off to pursue research away from the med school , etc etc. It is a lot of money.

agreed. this depends on what the schools actually are. i think its still possible to do research at any US MD due to ACGME/LCME requirements according to adcoms here

 

[libertyyne]

agreed. this depends on what the schools actually are. i think its still possible to do research at any US MD due to ACGME/LCME requirements according to adcoms here

I didn't know that. There are lcme research availability criteria?

 

[Lawpy]

I didn't now that. There are lcme research availability criteria?

i believe one of the criteria for accrediting a new US MD school is the ability to engage in scholarly research. thats why preclinical faculty should be engaged in active research of some sorts to qualify for teaching

i defer to @LizzyM @Goro @gyngyn @Med Ed for clarification

 

[LizzyM]

http://lcme.org/publications/

or Google LCME standards

 

[watermelon master]

I think OP needs to state the schools or else going just by the numbers of $30k per year savings is a rather unhelpful comparison.

 

[Swoleserratus]

I would lean mid tier out of vanity (personality flaw), but assessing my compatibility with the physical location would definitely come into play with multiple acceptances at schools that are "good enough."

I definitely understand the feeling about the prospect of your interests shifting during med school. I've been thinking about this myself and what I have realized is that while my interests may change, the kind of lifestyle I want will not. I'd go insane with some crazy unstructured schedule, so that eliminates a bunch of specialties right there. Because of this I know I probably would not be disadvantaged by going to a lower tier school.

 

[Med Ed]

i believe one of the criteria for accrediting a new US MD school is the ability to engage in scholarly research. thats why preclinical faculty should be engaged in active research of some sorts to qualify for teaching

i defer to @LizzyM @Goro @gyngyn @Med Ed for clarification

Research is ubiquitous. OP should take the money. Nobody gives three flocks about parsing between "mid" and "low" tier medical schools.

 

[libertyyne]

Research is ubiquitous. OP should take the money. Nobody gives three flocks about parsing between "mid" and "low" tier medical schools.

Lets say I want to Do Residency X. School A does not have a residency program in X but School B does. However, school B is more expensive. Would that change the decision?

 

[Med Ed]

Lets say I want to Do Residency X. School A does not have a residency program in X but School B does. However, school B is more expensive. Would that change the decision?

Is Residency X highly competitive?

 

[libertyyne]

Is Residency X highly competitive?

Somewhat competitive from what i can gather. IR or Radiology.

 

[LutGholein]

Low tier please! Paying only 40k total for an MD is very desirable. This goes back to the idea of why I expect great quality students going to UNLV's inaugural class-- free med school. I would drop several of my "top" choices if it meant free(or in this case very low cost med school).

 

[libertyyne]

Low tier please! Paying only 40k total for an MD is very desirable. This goes back to the idea of why I expect great quality students going to UNLV's inaugural class-- free med school. I would drop several of my "top" choices if it meant free(or in this case very low cost med school).

Growing pains tho. Also securing a good residency may be harder. I am unsure if it is 100K+ harder.

 

[Gastrapathy]

Why don't you people just name the schools already?

 

[Med Ed]

Somewhat competitive from what i can gather. IR or Radiology.

Rads ain't competitive these days. Bottom fell out. Surprised you hadn't heard.

Regardless, choosing a medical school because it has what you think you might want is problematic. Odds are good you'll change your mind, and even if you don't a strong academic record from any medical school will not be limiting.

 

[LutGholein]

Growing pains tho. Also securing a good residency may be harder. I am unsure if it is 100K+ harder.

True. But I wonder how much of a *bump* a top 40(mid-tier) would grant over a top 70? Maybe they would respectively have leverage over their surrounding regions....they probably both might have in-house residencies for X specialty but i'm definitely not an expert in this-- maybe there is a difference!

 

[libertyyne]

Rads ain't competitive these days. Bottom fell out. Surprised you hadn't heard.

Regardless, choosing a medical school because it has what you think you might want is problematic. Odds are good you'll change your mind, and even if you don't a strong academic record from any medical school will not be limiting.

didn't realize rads isnt competitive anymore. I suppose I can rest easy, well not too easy. I wasnt sure if having the residency at the school would allow for a better guidance and ultimately a better application to other programs in the same speciality.

 

[LutGholein]

didn't realize rads isnt competitive anymore. I suppose I can rest easy, well not too easy. I wasnt sure if having the residency at the school would allow for a better guidance and ultimately a better application to other programs in the same speciality.

Yeah i've heard the R and A in ROAD specialties are becoming less competitive(you thank/scold CRNAs presumably for the A)

 

[libertyyne]

Yeah i've heard the R and A in ROAD specialties are becoming less competitive(you thank/scold CRNAs presumably for the A)

Is it oversupply? The data bears that out.

 

[Lawpy]

Why don't you people just name the schools already?

supposedly because of anonymity reasons and fears of being outed

 

[LutGholein]

Is it oversupply? The data bears that out.
View attachment 211126

That could be it. I've done research/volunteered at a major teaching hospital where I live and you see the hospital minimizing cost by hiring multiple CRNAs and having a few anesthesiologists to supervise the platoon of CRNAs. It's still compensated very well but I do wonder what shift will occur in the coming years......CRNAs still haven't caught on everywhere.

 

[FootballFoot]

@Med Ed

What about a #25 for 60k a year vs Unranked for 18k a year? Tuition only without cost of living...

I want to do Dermatology, but >400k is a lot.

 

[libertyyne]

Yeah i've heard the R and A in ROAD specialties are becoming less competitive(you thank/scold CRNAs presumably for the A)

Are there new roads to happiness ?

 

[Swoleserratus]

Are there new roads to happiness ?

I hear PM&R is pretty decent. Also child psych may be an up-and-comer, particularly private practice if you're a paper-chaser.

 

[Mad Jack]

If they're both MD, the cheaper one. It's a no brainer, as tier doesn't really affect things a whole hell of a lot once you're out of the top institutions.

 

[Mad Jack]

@Med Ed

What about a #25 for 60k a year vs Unranked for 18k a year? Tuition only without cost of living...

I want to do Dermatology, but >400k is a lot.

There's little guarantee of derm either way, it's a pretty difficult field to get into regardless. You'll improve your chances with the better school though, so how much are you willing to pay for a slightly better roll of the dice?

 

[JustAPhD]

supposedly because of anonymity reasons and fears of being outed

I'm usually all for anonymity, but in this situation it's silly to not just list the schools. Anyways, without knowing the schools (it probably wouldn't matter anyways though) I say go for no debt. It's between mid-low tiers, not Harvard and CNU.

 

[Med Ed]

@Med Ed

What about a #25 for 60k a year vs Unranked for 18k a year? Tuition only without cost of living...

I want to do Dermatology, but >400k is a lot.

Unranked. People match into derm from unranked schools all the time.

 

[Goro]

Yeah, I think they're DOONE (Derm/Orthopedics/Opthal/Neurosurg/ENT). I'll bet someone can think of a better mnemonic for the uber specialties to replace ROADs.

Are there new roads to happiness ?

 

[libertyyne]

Yeah, I think they're DOONE (Derm/Orthopedics/Opthal/Neurosurg/ENT). I'll bet someone can think of a better mnemonic for the uber specialties to replace ROADs.

Why does neurosurg have such good reputation, considering long resodency and lots of call.

 

[Goro]

I don't know...ask the wise residents/attending of SDN! Or Ben Carson.

Why does neurosurg have such good lifestyle balance,long residency and lots of call?

 

[NeuResurgens]

Why does neurosurg have such good reputation, considering long resodency and lots of call.

Based on what I've heard on SDN, NS is more flexible hours-wise than is commonly thought (i.e. many NS are workaholics by nature so it might not be the specialty's fault, and there are practice settings where you're not being slaughtered by the hours like large group practice). I don't think NS matches with the ROADs profile though because it seems one of the big things with ROAD is high pay with relatively manageable hours. I think NS does have longer hours than typical ROAD specialties.

ENT, on the other hand, can fit that profile quite nicely

 

[libertyyne]

Based on what I've heard on SDN, NS is more flexible hours-wise than is commonly thought (i.e. many NS are workaholics by nature so it might not be the specialty's fault, and there are practice settings where you're not being slaughtered by the hours like large group practice). I don't think NS matches with the ROADs profile though because it seems one of the big things with ROAD is high pay with relatively manageable hours. I think NS does have longer hours than typical ROAD specialties.

ENT, on the other hand, can fit that profile quite nicely

Thats exactly what stuck out to me. The NS that I see are working a lot, and even if they let the mid-levels or the intensivists manage the patient's they are on call for OR time. I agree ENT fits that profile.

 

[NeuResurgens]

Thats exactly what stuck out to me. The NS that I see are working a lot, and even if they let the mid-levels or the intensivists manage the patient's they are on call for OR time. I agree ENT fits that profile.

I would say Ortho doesn't really fit the profile either. Similar profile to NS - good pay but potentially long hours. Anesthesia has gotten to be somewhat more demanding as well I think. The ROAD type specialties I think of are rads, rad onc, derm, optho, ENT, plastics. They're fairly high paying, flexible with hours, and hard to match into. Generally speaking

 

[libertyyne]

I would say Ortho doesn't really fit the profile either. Similar profile to NS - good pay but potentially long hours. Anesthesia has gotten to be somewhat more demanding as well I think. The ROAD type specialties I think of are rads, rad onc, derm, optho, ENT, plastics. They're fairly high paying, flexible with hours, and hard to match into. Generally speaking

I think ortho might fit in some settings especially if you are doing outpatient stuff. But I agree with your assessment. Rads somehow has fallen by the wayside.

 

[NeuResurgens]

I think ortho might fit in some settings especially if you are doing outpatient stuff. But I agree with your assessment. Rads somehow has fallen by the wayside.

True - would depend on the practice setting. I think some NS practice types might fit as well.

 

[Incis0r]

Yeah, I think they're DOONE (Derm/Orthopedics/Opthal/Neurosurg/ENT). I'll bet someone can think of a better mnemonic for the uber specialties to replace ROADs.

Why isn't radiology in your mnemonic? I have a friend who completed med school and is entering radiology residency right now. He told me he'll be getting a $300K starting salary straight out of residency and it only grows from there. Sounds like a sweet gig to me.

 

[Pepe18]

.

 

[Frogger27]

Is EM climbing the ranks to a "ROAD" specialty? It is the one I constantly hear is the new lifestyle choice

 

[DrBowtie]

Is EM climbing the ranks to a "ROAD" specialty? It is the one I constantly hear is the new lifestyle choice

Any specialty where almost half of your working time is outside of normal business hours is not a lifestyle specialty.

For lifestyle psych, endo, rheum, allergy all are better but the compensation is lower.

 

[WedgeDawg]

Neurosurg is not in any way shape or form a lifestyle specialty

 

[ace_inhibitor111]

Why isn't radiology in your mnemonic? I have a friend who completed med school and is entering radiology residency right now. He told me he'll be getting a $300K starting salary straight out of residency and it only grows from there. Sounds like a sweet gig to me.

Job market is not great. Also one of the reasons anesthesiology and pathology (especially) are not very sought after specialties.

 

[Med Ed]

Why isn't radiology in your mnemonic? I have a friend who completed med school and is entering radiology residency right now. He told me he'll be getting a $300K starting salary straight out of residency and it only grows from there. Sounds like a sweet gig to me.

It is. If you don't mind living in Pine Bluff, Arkansas.