attendance

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umean2tellme

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Why mandate attendance if the class is recorded and the lectures are provided online for us even before class? I'm not talking about classes with a lab or a small group discussion or something clinical that you have to practice doing physically. I feel like it's a huge waste of time if they are recording it and it's online withing 4 hours of class ending.
 
I would guess the stated reason is the med-school admin magic bullet of "professionalism".



But yes, IMO taking attendance at any level past highschool is silly.
 
Yeah but my test grades honestly started getting better once I stopped going to lecture b/c I could sleep more and actually had the energy to study. I find that I cannot effectively keep up in class and I learn better when I can just sit down and get the material down at my own pace. Plus, i rarely ask questions.

One major problem I've had is with one prof basically killing your grade if you don't come to class although the syllabus says it was not mandatory. I just feel that in med school what should count the most is your performance on exams, not how many classes you show up to.
 
How can a professor kill your grade in a class? Aren't you objectively evaluated? If there is some portion of the grade set aside for "class participation" then it is playing the game to attend class, look interested and occasionally ask a question. You don't have to listen to the lecture if you don't want to.
 
In my pharm school, we have the same problem....

Our professors that cared started giving "pop" quizzes so if you missed....they counted enough where you could not get an A......

the quizzes were usually very easy too....just had to be there....🙁
 
My personal thoughts are you should be able to come and go and get the material the best way for you....after all you as the student are paying for it...:idea:

I dont need to be read to in class....I can cut my time in half by just reading over the notes..and listening to lectures when I need to....some classes are easy enough where that is not necessary..
 
DrYoda said:
I would guess the stated reason is the med-school admin magic bullet of "professionalism".



But yes, IMO taking attendance at any level past highschool is silly.
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Seconded. I find that the classes I'm required to be at are the ones that are least helpful to me. It's like they know that absolutely nobody would be there, so they force you to sign in.
 
Mandatory attendence blows. When the lecturers are really bad, the time spent there is so useless but its extremely difficult to get something else done when someone is talking. I'd love to be able to just take noise cancelling headphones into lecture and do my own thing, except I'd probably catch hell for that too.

I remember during orientation the dean discussing why they do mandatory attendence. She got to make a joke of "Oh would you like it if you had a doctor who NEVER went to class?" Ha ha. Real ****ing funny. I'd totally feel better about a doctor who sat in the lecture hall playing games instead of studying elsewhere.
 
engineeredout said:
Mandatory attendence blows. When the lecturers are really bad, the time spent there is so useless but its extremely difficult to get something else done when someone is talking. I'd love to be able to just take noise cancelling headphones into lecture and do my own thing, except I'd probably catch hell for that too.

I remember during orientation the dean discussing why they do mandatory attendence. She got to make a joke of "Oh would you like it if you had a doctor who NEVER went to class?" Ha ha. Real ****ing funny. I'd totally feel better about a doctor who sat in the lecture hall playing games instead of studying elsewhere.
Click to expand...

lol nice
 
engineeredout said:
Mandatory attendence blows. When the lecturers are really bad, the time spent there is so useless but its extremely difficult to get something else done when someone is talking. I'd love to be able to just take noise cancelling headphones into lecture and do my own thing, except I'd probably catch hell for that too.

I remember during orientation the dean discussing why they do mandatory attendence. She got to make a joke of "Oh would you like it if you had a doctor who NEVER went to class?" Ha ha. Real ****ing funny. I'd totally feel better about a doctor who sat in the lecture hall playing games instead of studying elsewhere.
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👍👍
 
sindadel said:
How can a professor kill your grade in a class? Aren't you objectively evaluated? If there is some portion of the grade set aside for "class participation" then it is playing the game to attend class, look interested and occasionally ask a question. You don't have to listen to the lecture if you don't want to.
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Trust me, they have their ways. Especially things with seemingly subjective grades like small group participation. Some profs take it personally. I feel tremendously guilty whenever I don't attend lecture, but I feel so much more productive when I don't. It isn't necessarily productive with regards to the test, but I feel I have a greater understanding of the topic as a whole and stretch over a wider breadth of material.
 
umean2tellme said:
Why mandate attendance if the class is recorded and the lectures are provided online for us even before class?
Click to expand...


...because some states mandate a minimum amount of training. For example, California requires medical students (MD and DO) to have 4000 hours of training with a minimum of 80% attendance.
 
4000 hours doesn't sound terribly hard to accrue between anatomy lab, tests, and the clinical years. I'm not sure why the 80% attendance policy is necessary.
 
I love that the only rationale used for mandatory attendance is that they assume one learns best by passive listening. I've had people say I'm doing it wrong when I go there. I've printed off my notes to avoid computer distraction, written and summarized whatever was said and I still feel like I don't know anything more when I walk out.

Posted while not in lecture but in the building studying.
 
Lol. Sometimes I think they mandate attendance to make sure at least someone comes so they don't feel like they wasted their own time. I wish more classes in med school were just online classes anyway so I wouldn't have to wake up at 6 am to hear some guy read something to me that I'm too tired to absorb anyway.

And they need to cut out the b.s. classes here like Professional Behavior and Humanism. If you're in your 20s or 30s as most med students are, if you're lacking empathy no 2 hour class is going to make you care about people. 👎
 
I'm actually surprised that any medical school still has mandatory lecture attendance.

My school has excellent syllabi and online materials so for me even listening to the lectures has become pretty superfluous. Not going to class has allowed me to spend more concentrated time with the material and be more efficient. It's totally freed me to get more involved in other med school and service activities.
 
MilkmanAl said:
4000 hours doesn't sound terribly hard to accrue between anatomy lab, tests, and the clinical years. I'm not sure why the 80% attendance policy is necessary.
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Well, that's something that needs to be discussed with the state legislature. We're told that one of the reasons why attendance isn't taken is that they count watching the lectures online as "attending."

http://www.leginfo.ca.gov/cgi-bin/displaycode?section=bpc&group=02001-03000&file=2080-2099

Section 2089.
 
Our profs aren't stupid and know that if it is the day before a test, we aren't going to go in there and pay attention if that material isn't on it. I think most of our people are reasonable enough in that regard though. The professors that don't care are also the ones that believe they are there to teach and get the material across however is best for you. I feel like the ones that truly do get offended treat lecture as the one and only chance to ask questions OR they can't understand why we don't like their subject. This semester my profs are pretty awesome and actually give off the day before exams as a study day and just have a Q&A session during normal lecture hours.

I've come to realize I've got to be selfish when it comes to my education. 3 hours in lecture equates to a lot of time of me not learning the material the way I should. When I'm done with lecture, I'm usually way too tired to even focus and study longer aside from the fact I still want to get some exercise in and eat before 8 or 9 p.m.
 
I was referring to many of my classmates in general. 😉 I do the devil's advocate thing all the time. 😛 This time, I really do realize I hate lecture and usually leave wondering what tidbit of info was giving to me that I couldn't have gotten on my own time.
 
IN our institution 75% attendence iz must otherwise they wouldn't allow u to sit in exams..but students can mark their proxies.I personally don't like unfair things so just go to class for any type of lecture..both awesome and rubbish..
 
gulnosh said:
IN our institution 75% attendence iz must otherwise they wouldn't allow u to sit in exams..but students can mark their proxies.I personally don't like unfair things so just go to class for any type of lecture..both awesome and rubbish..
Click to expand...
What does "mark their proxies" mean?
 
Attendance should not be required. I'm glad my school doesnt enforce attendance. I don't know how I would survive med school otherwise. It would have been perfect if no cases either. That way I would only come to class or better yet, fly to town for the exam. Student interactions? I can live without them. I just don't want to interact with people who think that "being gay is a disease," or "black people are lazy." Not all of them are bigots, of course. Some are nice, but unfortunately, we don't get to pick our case groups.
 
hikikomori said:
Attendance should not be required. I'm glad my school doesnt enforce attendance. I don't know how I would survive med school otherwise. It would have been perfect if no cases either. That way I would only come to class or better yet, fly to town for the exam. Student interactions? I can live without them. I just don't want to interact with people who think that "being gay is a disease," or "black people are lazy." Not all of them are bigots, of course. Some are nice, but unfortunately, we don't get to pick our case groups.
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Jeez. Where do YOU go to school?
 
Mr hawkings said:
Jeez. Where do YOU go to school?
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You'd be surprised how many people feel like that depending on the region. I'm friends with many of them and as soon as the conversation swings that way I tell them we aren't aligned the same with those beliefs and no good will come from it. It ends after that.
 
hikikomori said:
I just don't want to interact with people who think that "being gay is a disease," or "black people are lazy." Not all of them are bigots, of course.
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All the mandatory sensitivity lectures in the world won't change people like that.
 
MossPoh said:
You'd be surprised how many people feel like that depending on the region. I'm friends with many of them and as soon as the conversation swings that way I tell them we aren't aligned the same with those beliefs and no good will come from it. It ends after that.
Click to expand...

Well i understand that many people feel that way. Apparently his/her classmates feel strongly enough to make it openly known to their peers to the point where it makes this poster uncomfortable. That, i havent encountered yet. And i do go to school in the south (i'm assuming thats one of the "regions" ur referring to).
Then again, i am a member of one of those "stereotyped groups" so maybe they just hide it from me.
 
I have to fully agree that attendance is foolish if you are better able to absorb the information elsewhere. Since the point of med school is to...well, learn medicine, it seems that schools would be understanding as long as students were properly preparing themselves for Step I and II. However, there are a lot of med students out there that are social ******s and may need that forced social interaction with other human beings no matter how benign that interaction is. Some of these kids need a good social kick in the pants to have socially normal physician/patient interaction unless of course they want to go into rads, path, research, etc.
 
hikikomori said:
Attendance should not be required. I'm glad my school doesnt enforce attendance. I don't know how I would survive med school otherwise. It would have been perfect if no cases either. That way I would only come to class or better yet, fly to town for the exam. Student interactions? I can live without them. I just don't want to interact with people who think that "being gay is a disease," or "black people are lazy." Not all of them are bigots, of course. Some are nice, but unfortunately, we don't get to pick our case groups.
Click to expand...

To be fair, a lot of black people are lazy. Of course a lot of white people, Asian people, and Hispanic people are lazy too. 😎

/white person being lazy and posting on SDN instead of studying micro. 👍
 
Rogue Synapse said:
What does "mark their proxies" mean?
Click to expand...
well "mark their proxies" means that students dont go to class and ask any classfellow who iz supposed to go for lecture to mark their attendence.Actualy there are attndnce sheets handed over to students so kids used to mark each others attendnce now and then..🙂
 
engineeredout said:
All the mandatory sensitivity lectures in the world won't change people like that.
Click to expand...

Yea, conversing back and forth or trying in any way to change them is also fruitless. Best to switch topic or if all else fails, have a "meeting" you have to go to and scram.

On the subject of proxies, I'd never take that risk in med school. Being caught would be a huge deal compared to the reason of trying to miss one class.
 
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