Ok. I need some advice. I am currently a 4th year taking a 4 week specialty elective at my home institution. So the elective is arranged where I work with one attending the whole month-all day, every day. It turns out this guy is really really unpleasant. He is gruff, short tempered, and he swears like a sailor. If a resident or med student doesn't know something, or asks him a question he finds annoying, he makes nasty comments, and then calls them an f-ing idiot the minute they walk away. He even told me after he hung up the phone with another attending "I f-in hate her....I really f-ing do!" And mind you, he did use the whole word (I had to clean it up a bit for SDN). He has also made many snarky comments to me, and he has no patience for the fact I am still learning. If I don't know every detail about a case, or I make a mistake, or I even ask a question about a medication choice, he bites my head off. I know he is probably calling me an f-ing useless idiot behind my back just like he does of everyone else. He flips through charts and when he comes to a med student note he says "f-ing waste of my time...they know nothing....they are useless and too goddamn annoying to live." But here is the kicker...two days a week he makes a big deal about having to get out of the hospital before a certain time, and he let it slip that he was legally obligated to do so. So I googled him and found out that he was arrested a few months ago (at 4 pm) for driving with a blood alcohol level more than twice the legal limit. In order to keep his license for conditional use, he must attend special weekly DUI classes. The guy smells like cigarettes and sometimes, I do detect a hint of alcohol on him. He mumbles and slurs his speech, and sometimes I have trouble understanding him...and of course, he acts annoyed and belittles me for misunderstanding his instructions. Here is my problem...the grade I receive for the rotation doesn't really matter at this point. It doesn't count for anything. But I really feel kinda robbed. I am paying a lot of tuition and I want to learn something during this rotation, and he has no desire to teach. He makes sexist comments, and even took a jab at me because I have a chronic illness. He is offensive, and a bad human being to boot. He judges everyone around him, but he did something incredibly unethical and amoral....he could have killed innocent people! I just wonder if I should do something about this. Report him to someone, I don't know. It is just such a bummer...
attending abusive...
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Talk to your clinical ed office, I'm sure they would want to hear about this and not put students on his rotation anymore.
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Agreed with above.
Medicine is full of socially inept, unpleasant people. However:
1) this is an elective; not a required course
2) he has made the workplace an unpleasant environment with his offensive attitude and behavior
3) it sounds like he has a substance abuse problem
I can see no reason why you need to suffer through this. It is not educational and I fail to see the benefit to you (even if you weren't paying for it).
Please see your Rotations Coordinator tomorrow and bring with you written documentation of your experience. Do not cry/get emotional or otherwise appear to be subjective about this all. Say you are concerned about this man, but that you find the rotation to not meet the needs to students and you wish to have another supervisor/switch rotations. They may tell you you can't. Remind them that you have noted alcohol on his breath and that not only is he offending you, but he is seeing patients in this state. Be strong and accept nothing else than another rotation/supervisor.
Medicine is full of socially inept, unpleasant people. However:
1) this is an elective; not a required course
2) he has made the workplace an unpleasant environment with his offensive attitude and behavior
3) it sounds like he has a substance abuse problem
I can see no reason why you need to suffer through this. It is not educational and I fail to see the benefit to you (even if you weren't paying for it).
Please see your Rotations Coordinator tomorrow and bring with you written documentation of your experience. Do not cry/get emotional or otherwise appear to be subjective about this all. Say you are concerned about this man, but that you find the rotation to not meet the needs to students and you wish to have another supervisor/switch rotations. They may tell you you can't. Remind them that you have noted alcohol on his breath and that not only is he offending you, but he is seeing patients in this state. Be strong and accept nothing else than another rotation/supervisor.
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To be honest, I was like "get some f-ing thick skin" at first, thinking you were complaining of an attending the cursed and made sexist comments. However, what you describe is him going beyond the cute bad-ass impression that some doctors (mainly surgeons?) like to display. What you describe crosses many red lines, and yes, your school should be aware, as I am sure they wouldn't want students in such an environment where they are being abused, not being taught, and having to deal with an ethical dilemma (their attending coming to work drunk). Talk to 1) your dean of students 2) your rotation director and/or 3) your imbuds person. Depending on who you are most comfortable with.
My school has a ZERO tolerance policy, and they would for sure want to know about this and take immediate action (at a minimum removing the student from that environment; at a maximum getting said attending in trouble for his reckless behavior).
On a more positive note, congrats on being months away from being done... 👍
N
njbmd
Feel free to contact your clinical director with your learning problems. I would encourage you to leave out your "Googled" information. The fact that your instructor isn't providing a good learning environment is enough. You don't want a charge of "unprofessional" coming back at you. Your dealings with this instructor are of a "learning environment" nature and nothing more.
You can't judge the following:
- His/Her desire to teach
- His/Her quality as a "human being"
- What he/she "judges"
- What he/she "calls you behind your back"
You can describe his/her behavior using specific instances that were directed at you that affected your ability to perform as a member of the team. You can also describe what you directly observed. Anything else, is hearsay and opinion which doesn't belong in your report about this person.
When you are dealing with "writing up" a person or making any type of complaint, don't make it personal in any way or manner. State the facts that prevented you from having a good learning experience and leave it at that. Anything else can come back and "bite you" in the rear end.
I am not condoning this type of behavior which does not belong in a learning environment but I have seen too many medical students get a label of "whiner and complainer" deserved or not, which followed them from place to place. Do what you have to do but don't fall into anything that can affect you especially not being professional because you were treated unprofessionally.
I will also caution you not to get into "discussion/gossip fests" with the interns, residents, nursing staff and your fellow students about this situation or this person. Do your report and move on.
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i would just confront him about it. and then tell him. give me the rest of the rotation off gimme an A for the course.. and.. nobody needs to know how much of a freak i think you are..
If there is a chance that you will be working with this person again (residency perhaps) I would say let it go. you will be off his service in a couple of weeks and will hopefully never have to deal with him again. Dont possibly jepordize your future.
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I think that could be construed as blackmail ("gimme an A and a vacation or I'm gonna tell on you!"). Seems like it could backfire badly.
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Also, don't discuss it "off the record", either. Nothing is ever "off the record". Don't talk about it with classmates or other professors. Only those who need to know, and trust they will handle it.
You want to be as professional as possible, to echo njbmd.
You want to be as professional as possible, to echo njbmd.
D
deleted263296
I'd approach the physician about it first. Don't let him intimidate you. If that doesn't change anything, I'd report him. They probably won't do anything except prevent him from teaching medical students in the future.
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I would tell my school and let them handle it....just get through it and then move on.....
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so
I don't know whether or not this guy is a jerk (which may or may not be true), but you are in no condition to approach the university about how "immoral" or "unethical" he is (as per his past and treatment). Obviously his place of work knows about any troubles this man may have had and he is in treatment for such. It is really not your place to nose around and point out what they probably already know. .
Now, if you really truly feel he is showing up to work wasted (which may or may not be the case) and you feel people are in danger by his care, then I would speak to someone about this and only this!!! Again, resist the temptation to point out this great detective work, or claim how aweful a human being he is. I would also resist the temptation to judge his entire self based on your "googled" information. Just point out your concerns and objective facts.
As per his swearing/calling students idiots...well it is obviously no way to treat others. I wish he wasn't doing that (or anyone did that). However, some attendings/residents will do this. Honestly I don't think complaining to staff will get you (or us) anywhere (except maybe in trouble ourselves for stiring up trouble). I would just complain to friends/classmates to vent and leave it at that. After you graduate, send him a letter telling him how you feel🙂
I don't know whether or not this guy is a jerk (which may or may not be true), but you are in no condition to approach the university about how "immoral" or "unethical" he is (as per his past and treatment). Obviously his place of work knows about any troubles this man may have had and he is in treatment for such. It is really not your place to nose around and point out what they probably already know. .
Now, if you really truly feel he is showing up to work wasted (which may or may not be the case) and you feel people are in danger by his care, then I would speak to someone about this and only this!!! Again, resist the temptation to point out this great detective work, or claim how aweful a human being he is. I would also resist the temptation to judge his entire self based on your "googled" information. Just point out your concerns and objective facts.
As per his swearing/calling students idiots...well it is obviously no way to treat others. I wish he wasn't doing that (or anyone did that). However, some attendings/residents will do this. Honestly I don't think complaining to staff will get you (or us) anywhere (except maybe in trouble ourselves for stiring up trouble). I would just complain to friends/classmates to vent and leave it at that. After you graduate, send him a letter telling him how you feel🙂
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If you bring an allegation against the Attending you need to have something to back up your statement. The easiest would be to wait until he has the odor of alcohol on his breath and then contact someone in authority to handle the situation or bring it to the attention of some other persons working in the area that you can trust. You need to have someway to corroborate your statement so it not just your word against the attending. Sometimes it takes fortitude to make a stand. If you do confront him at least have a pocket recorder to document you side of the situation. Good Luck.
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Just remember that you have almost no power as a medical student. Do you have an ombudsman you can talk to? Confidentially?
Also, I would not put anything in writing unless they ask you to. Once it's in writing, it can never be taken back. Right now I'm dealing with a situation with a nurse who tried to do something like that but it completely back-fired, and this nurse is probably going to lose their job.
Biff
Also, I would not put anything in writing unless they ask you to. Once it's in writing, it can never be taken back. Right now I'm dealing with a situation with a nurse who tried to do something like that but it completely back-fired, and this nurse is probably going to lose their job.
Biff
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One piece of advice I would recommend, but it may be at the stage where you're too late for this, is get the whole thing on record with a tape recorder.
Or, having a live cell phone in your pocket can pickup most conversations.
Different states have different laws on two party consent and recording. However, I don't foresee them going after you since you wouldn't be using this as evidence in a courtroom or to try and get the guy's license revoked.
Rather, it would be good to have as evidence for a sympathetic ear in your program director's office.
Also, don't take this as "blackmailing" him either. You'll definitely run into legal issues if you go that route. I would never, ever do or recommend that.
However, I think an audio recording would be good in case the issue ever arises of how bad it was and you can show that it really was this bad...
best of luck, fortunately it's not the rest of your life!
Or, having a live cell phone in your pocket can pickup most conversations.
Different states have different laws on two party consent and recording. However, I don't foresee them going after you since you wouldn't be using this as evidence in a courtroom or to try and get the guy's license revoked.
Rather, it would be good to have as evidence for a sympathetic ear in your program director's office.
Also, don't take this as "blackmailing" him either. You'll definitely run into legal issues if you go that route. I would never, ever do or recommend that.
However, I think an audio recording would be good in case the issue ever arises of how bad it was and you can show that it really was this bad...
best of luck, fortunately it's not the rest of your life!
very, very good advice.
Don't be a martyr in this situation op as it will not help you professionally, personally, or anything. Rather, let your school know that you were very disappointed with this rotation and you didn't get much or anything out of it. They'd probably be more than willing to work with you.
Don't take it personally and don't file a sexual harassment lawsuit even though it's probably warranted.
