Australian Medical Schools offering Graduate Entry

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I've been asked a lot of questions about Australia, so I thought I'd make a summary for all. Firstly, there are four schools of four year length, except U of Melbourne that has an extra half-year of clinical rotations. U of Melbourne has 10 international spots with about 40 applications a year, and generally expect a 10,10,10,M on the MCAT. The course starts every July, but the app. process is through <a href="http://www.acer.edu.au/unitest/index.html" target="_blank">ACER</a> like it is for the rest of the schools. U of Melbourne usually interviews in August or September and has decisions by October/November. For overseas applicants, the interviews are usually by phone. The non-clinical years are PBL format and follow a system by system approach for the two basic medical science years. Generally the hardest of the Australian Med Schools to get into. Check their website for more info: <a href="http://www.medfac.unimelb.edu.au/med/medicine.asp" target="_blank">University of Melbourne School of Medicine</a>

Flinders University in Adelaide has 30 international spots, admits about 10 early through the early decision program in March and interviews the rest beginning late August. MCAT score of at least 8/8/8/M required. 5 of the 30 get a scholarship worth half of tuition. Also PBL, system by system. They actively recruit international students, so have a slightly higher profile than other schools. Also, interviews are done in the States, as a recruiter is sent over. School also accepts applications directly from students, rather that having to go through ACER. Print off their app from the website. Before last year, most competitive applicants got a spot, but last year had an upsurge in applications. Getting more competitive all the time. Check: <a href="http://som.flinders.edu.au/HTML/COURSES/GEMP/GEMP.html" target="_blank">Flinders School of Medicine</a>

University of Sydney has 40 international spots, 4 years long, PBL format, system-by-system. Usually get 100 applications a year, 80 get interviews, by phone, so 1 in 2 chance of getting in after interview. They also expect 8/8/8/M on MCAT. Up to 10 will get a scholarship worth half of tuition. Slightly strange exam set-up. No exams till end of second year. Fail it and you're finished. Some people have a big problem with that, I would. Their website: <a href="http://www.gmp.usyd.edu.au/vguide/ps_index.html" target="_blank">Sydney Med</a>

Finally, my school, University of Queensland in Brisbane. There are 20 international spots, 4 yr program, PBL, spiral curriculum. To explain what that means, rather than system by system, we cover all the systems from a physiological perspective in year one. Then we do it all over again in second year from a pathological perspective. From people I've spoken to, they appreciate the repitition. You need minimum 8/8/8/M on MCAT. Wasn't as popular before because it didn't bother to apply for Stafford Loan approval, although it has now, so apps are going up. Check their website: <a href="http://www.som.uq.edu.au/" target="_blank">UQ School of Medicine</a>

Other general comments: Tuition is about $32000--33000 Australian dollars per year. Currently that is about $17500 USD, but the USD has been weakening all year. The lifestyle, weather, and costs of living differ greatly from city to city. The beach is big where ever you go, more so up north in Brisbane. Summer's hot everywhere, but winter is colder in Adelaide and Melbourne, then Sydney, then Brisbane.
It's relatively cheap to fly within Australia, but expensive to fly out. Easiest way here is via a direct L.A-Sydney flight that is 14 hours long.
There are 7 other Australian med schools 6 yrs in length for high school leavers.
Hope that clears up some questions people have had regarding Oz.
 
is it too late to send an aussi applicatio now???
 
Trust me, they'll accept it after the deadline. I'm in Oz now, and my app wasn't in till August last year, but I wouldn't recommend waiting that long.
 
I'm sort of new to the idea of international med schools, so please forgive me if my questions have already been answered a million times before...

Some of these Australian programs you listed have minimum MCAT's of 8/8/8....is it just me, or is that incredibly low..and why would these universities settle for international students with lower mcat's than the average mcat score for U.S. med school matriculants. I mean if these schools are so good, shouldn't the competition be greater than that? Or is that the crux of the issue...that these schools aren't that great, that they're just carribean alternatives. Will students at these schools face as much trouble finding residencies in the US as Carribean grads?

Like i said, forgive me if i sound like an ass for saying that, but it's just so bewildering to me...i just want to learn more about all the options available.

Arun
 
Arunski,

the minimum is 8/8/8. That doesn't mean that they actually end up accepting people who only scored a 24. An 8 is usually considered a passable rate because I think for the most part it puts you at the 50th percentile. Since our standardization (MCAT vs GAMSAT) is different from theirs, they can't set it too high, as the tests look at different material...like comparing apples and oranges. So they just set a 24 as a limit for international grads. Also, so that they can draw a higher applicant pool of students who will be paying full fees 🙂 .

A 24 is low, but I don't believe that someone who scores a 24 is necessarily not fit to be a doctor. There are so many variables. As pill counter said earlier, some schools (univ. of melbourne) require higher...a 30, which cuts out some international students who didn't reach that score.
 
Arunski,

Also. IMGs are IMGs, no matter where they will go. They all may have trouble with landing residency, but the Aussie grads generally seem to be fine. The thing about international students vs. offshore students, is that there isn't really a stigma attached to international students, at least those who come from ex-commonwealth English-speaking countries 🙂 .

Their universities are very good and their standards of education excellent.
 
Hmmm... good point Arunski. The esteemed academics at my university spend their entire spare time wondering how to accomodate a few international students, vs. assuring the future health and prosperity of this Australian state. My uni, along with the others does not cater to Americans, but also has Asian and African students who are obtaining a world-class medical education that they wouldn't have at home. It's up to you to judge what route is best for you, but Australian grads going to the States have done very well, but don't think the schools here are pre-occupied by it. They have more important things to do.
 
Also a recent research from Sydney Uni last year showed that the international students scored far better grades overall compared to local Aussies, including recent immigrants (matched to pre uni grades equally).

I guess we all work a bit harder when it is coming straight out of our pocket :wink:
 
I think that question's better for SYD. I think he/she's a graduate of UofSydney.
 
About the interview, UQ called me at home since my application was so late. It was a teleconference with two doctors, lasting about 30 min. I imagine you'll have the same problem, you're writing MCAT in August right? Results come out last week of October. Flinders will probably have made all of its offers by then. The others, I think, wait till all candidates are interviewed, before offering a spot.
 
Do any of the Australian schools offer a 6 year program for individuals without the prereqs?

Thanks!
 
The six year schools consider international students, look into Melbourne, Monash, UofNewSouthWales, Newcastle(5yr), Western Australia, Adelaide, and UofTasmania. They look at your SAT scores, mainly, if you're from the States
 
good on ya pill counter :wink: , i was wondering if you knew of any aussie loans that were available to international students. thanks.
 
Hi there

Let me give you guys a little bit more info about Sydney uni:

As you all know already it has moved from the old UMP (undergrad Med Prog) to GMP ( Grad Med Prog), few yrs ago. GMP started in 1997, with &gt; 150 students graduating each yr. The last year of UMP's graduated end of last yr, and there is no more UMPs now . ( I am one of the UMPs 🙂 , still we had GMPs in parallel during our last 2 yrs)

As you know there are 40 international spots with ~ 180 locals for this year. Telephone interviews are the usual mode of recruitment, few people I came across didn't have any trouble, they were infact a lot happy, they could sit back, relax and talk on the phone for about 30 mins at the most :wink:

First two yrs are less clinical oriented, last two yrs are very well structured, with plenty of bed side tutorials, SCORPIOS ( dont ask me what this stand for, I have no idea 🙂 , but these are very good short talks for each system ) and of course plenty of PBL sessions..Those who like them, well Good luck to you..

Only thing I heard about the first two yrs was the anatomy teaching, few people were grumpy about the speed they covered the whole body Anatomy. While a lot students were still contemplating which atlas to buy, its all been done ..

Four major teahing hospitals are there, RPA- Royal Prince Alfred, being the biggest( &gt; 800 acute beds) oldest and of course the nearest to Sydney uni..

Accomodation there are few colleges St Johns (if you are XY), Womens college are very popular, bit costly. International House (for both XY/XX), has lots of international students as the name imply.
Then of course the nurses quarters, cheapest, simplest and closest to Faculty of Medicine/ RPA.

Sports facilities are all there- tennis, swimming, gym you name it, its there somewhere not too far..

As far as the USMLE prep goes the library (Bosch Library) has a good collection of USMLE books. They in fact have a little room with heaps of USMLE books in the whole shelf for loan, but not more than 4 days, so do renew them, otherwise its big bucks, you will be paying just for no reason..

If you want to get into a residency program here usually first year is not much of a problem, but can't predict 'cos there is a transient shortage for Residents particularly in NSW/Sydney now. I dunno how long this will last..

I will leave you guys there.. but, yea.. most international students who come here do very well, like I mentioned before. So, go for it... 🙂
 
Sorry Waz, I arranged my financing in North America. You're not going to be able to access the required funds as a visa student here. If others have done so, let us know how.
 
thanks guys, pill counter's right i'm not American (darn only a couple more years and i would have been one though 🙁 , then i could apply for a loan, but that's not what being american is about 😀 )anyways back to the topic. i'm already in med school, but a friend of mine is interested in aussie schools and she was looking for info on scholarships or loans for aussie med schools. i don't think there are many loans out there for international students but i think she found one where you need an american to cosign.
thanks again guys.
 
Just a bit extra on those interested in Australian medical schools.
Western Australia is planning to start two new graduate medical schools within the next few years. The University of Western Australia already has a six year undergraduate program, but is planning on starting a graduate program in 2005. Also The Univeristy of Notre Dame (a private univeristy in WA (fee paying))is planning on starting one in 2004.

I'm planing on apply to UWA in 2005, when I finish my undergrate degree there in 2004!
 
I have been pretty gung-ho about the Ireland thing (still am), but all this Australia talk is beginning to interest me. Being from Buffalo (you know, the "blizzard" capital), my plan has always been to end up living on a beach/somewhere warmer.
What exactly is ACER, and what are the app. deadlines? How much does it cost to apply?
My main concern with Aussie schools revolves more around cost of flying home when needed/ money related issues, since I am broke.
Pill counter, your original post is quite informative. I will probably have more ?s for you as I look into this a bit more.
 
Acer is the organization to which all graduate entry medical applicants apply, whether international or aussie. Visit http://www.acer.edu.au/ and click the Graduate Medicine and Dental programs link on the left hand side.

The deadline was supposed to be June 29th, but I have heard they are very lenient with this. It doesn't cost much at all...I think 50 AUD, which they charge off your credit card. Or maybe it's 50 US, I can't remember but either way, that's not much. You list your first and 2nd choices. There's no personal statement or anything, it's just reliant on numbers. You have to send your transcript and have the MCAT office send your mcat scorecard. That's it.

If you're interested, maybe you should drop off an email to Acer. They get back to you very quickly.

Yeah...plane fare is gonna cost a least $1000. That's hefty. However, the cheap living expenses (if you're not in Sydney...or maybe even if you are) kinda makes up for it, as the US Dollar is really strong against the Aussie dollar (although fluctuating all the time). But yeah, although I'd want to go Aussie, Ireland IS closer...it's easier to work as a student in AUS than Ireland, though. It's been a tough choice for me.
 
Hey leorl,
that acer link you posted took me to some site for an internatinal computer company. Just thought that I would let you know.
JMD
 
Hey,

The correct site is: http://www.acer.edu.au/
The page you want though is: http://www.acer.edu.au/unitest/index.html

Australian living is pretty cheap...esp for Amercians, because the AU dollar is like 54c US...almost half price.

Yes the plane fares will be expensive...but your best go would be to buy a one way ticket to Australia, and then when you have to fly back, pay in Australian dollars...(making it 1/2 price again).

Its relatively cheap to fly within Australia as well, with a typical flight between Perth (where I live) to Sydney being $700 (US$350)

Though Australian courses may appear easier to get into than Amercian, and even maybe other international colleges....that goes not mean the education is second class...actually it is quite the opposite. It is just that we do not have as much competion here with a much smaller population, also the majority of students who enter medicine, entry as undergraduates.

I'll be applying for the new course in 2005 at the University of WA, which has the brand new CTEC centre which was opened by HM the Queen. Its so specky...where you can practice things from suturing and injections to surgery on lifelike 'models' before trying it out on the real thing!

So yeah, I say give AU a go!
hope some of this helped
Jen
 
I'm glad all worked out and you'll be in med school next year. I think being a UCC grad will be great. Sydney offers the advantages of paying one less year's tuition and living in a cosmopolitan asian city. Then again, Cork's got its plusses, golf being one of them! Either way, you'll be entering the 2007 match in the States. Just with Sydney, you'll have 8 months of not much to do, or maybe a lot of things you wanted to do while waiting for residency to start.
 
Hi,

I was wondering if anyone could tell me a little about the interview for the University of Sydney. My interview is on August 31st in New York city. What can I expect? Thanks
 
I was wondering, can anyone tell me how early you can apply through ACER, and how early they start giving out decisions?

I plan on applying to the Irish schools, but I am heavily considering Aussie schools as well. If I apply early enough to Aussie schools, do you think I will find out if I get in prior to next summer?

Say, for example, I get accepted to one of the Irish schools in April/May, will I find out about Aussie schools soon enough to compare and contrast, and then decide between the two (without sending in a deposit).

Basically what I am asking is, is there any way to avoid Leorl's situation where she had to send in her Trinity deposit while still holding out for U Melbourne acceptance?

Sorry, for some reason I had a hard time getting my point across.
 
It will only work with Flinders if you get accepted to their Early Decision Program (they take about 10 in March then leave the rest open for other applicants in the fall)
 
JMD, it will not work. They only give you a month or so to send the deposit. So if you get accepted May, that gives you til June. THe aussie ACER app. isn't even due until the end of June, and you don't find out about interview status until August (and I still haven't heard. Either Melbourne is slower than the other schools, or they're disorganized). So... right, unless you do an early decision program that commits you (and only Flinders has one), it won't work. I was worried about that when I applied, and decided to try it out anyway.
 
Leorl, I don't know what you're talking about, where did Finch enter the picture? Like I said above, if you apply directly to Flinders and get accepted in their early decision program, then you may have some time to compare the two. That's not an option with the other Oz schools as they won't give you a decision till the fall.
 
For anyone in the know...
I'm presently a senior finishing my bachelor's in June 2003 in the US. If I apply to Sydney's GMP for entry in 2003 and am admitted, when would I enter -- june 2003 or january 2004?

Also, do the Aussie med schools distinguish between top-tier US schools and others in the US when accepting students (i.e. Northwestern vs. University of Illinois at Chicago)?

Thanks.
 
You'd start in jan 2004, there is no June start (except at Melbourne and only because it's an extra half year long). I doubt they really distinguish b/w top-tier and middle-tier American schools. They want good MCAT scores to establish academic capability and then the interview will decide most of it.
 
You may be interested to know that the University of Western Australia provides Med.
 
Doubt Peter Parker would be interested in a six-year course unless UWA's planned graduate entry course is in place by then.
 
Hi Aussie Pod,

Im from UWA too!!
Do you do med?
I do Health Science, but am thinking of doing Med, probably try for the UWA graduate program, WHEN it gets going🙂

What yr are you? I'm in 3rd.

Good to see another West Australian on here.
Hope you reply
 
Does anyone here know any US/Canadian med students at either Melbourne or Sydney who I can write to find out what life is like at those two schools?

Aussie Pod,
Thanks for the info on UWA. I'll keep it in mind, but as of right now, ACER does not have UWA listed on their application for international students. There are only 4 listed -- Melbourne, Sydney, Queensland, and Flinders.
 
Hi

The four uni's you listed are the only four graduate med programs in Australia, these are usually 4 yrs long, except Melb that is 4 1/2. There are many more undergrad med programs that have places set aside for international students. These programs are usually 6 years long. Im not sure how you apply for them though, probably through the university directly...or I think ACER has info on undergrad programs too.
 
Hey Monice
I have an interview in NY on the same day.
Is there anyone here who has previously been interviewed by USYD or any Ausi med school?
 
Hi,

Does anyone know when we find out from University of Sydney about whether we got accepted? I had my interview at the start of the month. I'm just wondering since if I get accepted, I don't want to apply to any other schools but the deadlines are all in middle October and November so I don't know if we'll find out from USyd by then.
 
Originally posted by leorl
Arunski,

the minimum is 8/8/8. That doesn't mean that they actually end up accepting people who only scored a 24. An 8 is usually considered a passable rate because I think for the most part it puts you at the 50th percentile. Since our standardization (MCAT vs GAMSAT) is different from theirs, they can't set it too high, as the tests look at different material...like comparing apples and oranges. So they just set a 24 as a limit for international grads. Also, so that they can draw a higher applicant pool of students who will be paying full fees 🙂 .

A 24 is low, but I don't believe that someone who scores a 24 is necessarily not fit to be a doctor. There are so many variables. As pill counter said earlier, some schools (univ. of melbourne) require higher...a 30, which cuts out some international students who didn't reach that score.
Click to expand...





Guess Christian Barnard was not a good doctor since he didn't take the MCAT.
 
Hi, I applied late into U of Syd, and will have to fly to Sydney for the interview. Does anyone know what the interview is like?
 
thanks.. those webpages are really helpful🙂
 
Hi,

Has anyone here done the UMAT (Undergraduate Medical Admissions Test)? Its for entry into the Undergraduate (6yr) MBBS. I think I will be doing it next yr, and I just wanted any feed back on it.

Also there is this site: http://www.agoneyes.com/welcome.html
They sell a CDrom to help prepare for it...its $90.
Do you think it would be worth it? I know I need LOTS of practice on section 3....its REALLY hard.
Does anyone have/had a copy.
If so, could I borrow it 🙂

Thanks
Jenni
 
why interested in UMAT? Don't think there's many young ones about from Australia on SDN. I think having a Bachelors and entering a six year course will be a painful experience. A year and half of it is pure filler. The registrars are grads of the old six year course, they must have info on UMAT, but I'm sure it has changed in ten years. I'll ask around anyway.
 
Why UMAT you ask...
well I'm from WA..and over here we only have 1 med course, and its a undergrad 6yr MBBS at UWA.
There is talk in the making of two grad courses starting up.
1 at Notre Dame in 2004...however many ppl from UWA are pissed at this because ND is a private uni so fees will be up front. They believe it will led to people being able to buy there way into med. No quite so really, since they still have to do the whole process of getting in. The other reason ND doesn't really appeal to me though is because it is SO NEW...the uni doesn't even have a science faculty let alone a med faculty (they do teach nursing).

2. UWA ....MAYBE....they haven't made any promises however, but I pursume it will be 2005-2006 be4 it opens.

So I'm like thinking, to I apply for 6yr straight out of my 4yr course...or do I wait around and hope these grad programs will start up?. I don't think I'd mind a 6yr program too much, I love uni and learning (I know I am a geek 🙂 ) Another reason....I think I will do better in the UMAT then I would in the GAMSAT. ie I would need to prepare HEAPS for GAMSAT as I haven't done any physics and only basic chem.

I know you are probably all wondering why I don't apply to grad programs outside of WA...and I might, its just that I really want to stay here. I'd rather wait a few years and stay here then have to move away from family/friends.

So yeah that is what I am thinking at the moment. Only MAJOR prob doing 6yr course, is that I will be 27 by the time I grad.

Any insight would be appriated
THANKYOU
Jenni
 
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