Average path open to student shadows?

[tradersluck]

---

Members don't see this ad.

MS-1 looking to get away from school for a bit. I'm really fond of histology so far, so I wanted to visit the medical lab to see what the average day is like and maybe look at some slides. Are you guys generally open to having students follow you and pick your brains for a bit? I have a family member that works on a few hospital boards with paths so I wouldn't be cold-calling labs or anything.

 

[MetroPath]

Yup I’m currently a fellow and haven’t heard back from a bunch of places I’ve emailed. There ARE a limited number of jobs.

Any other fellows out there looking for a job? When you work so hard in training and fellowships and come out into this job market it’s pretty depressing.

Just got off the phone with a recruiter who mentioned the supply>demand in regards to the path job market without me even mentioning anything.

 

[tradersluck]

Pathology has a bad job market. Don’t mean to scare you away but just being realistic. There are a limited number of jobs.

Don’t expect employers to be swooning over you to come work for them.

Yeah I've heard that. The medical lab (not pathology directly) puts food on my table, so that plus my interest in histology makes me feel like I should really give it a shot before I write it off forever.

 

[rirriri]

yes by all means you should do a rotation in Path! Talk to the department associated with your school and do some shadowing and in the future get an elective lined up too.

From my perspective in academia the job market has been great and very solid. Every resident and fellow I’ve trained with have found great positions and in all different types of roles. if you love Histology you should definitely give it a shot!

there’s nothing else I’d rather be practicing in medicine.

 

[MetroPath]

Disagree the job market is not great. I’m not here to be a Debbie downer but it’s not. Don’t expect employers to be drooling to hire you. My buddy applied to 20-30 places only got one offer in a semirural city starting 180Kin private practice which is low considering the location.

Stories like that from my buddy are what you should take note of. That story does not depict a great job market.

I don’t have a ulterior motive to say the job market is not great. If you want to do academics there are plenty of jobs. If you want to do private, there are jobs but they are limited and you have to be geographically flexible.

If the job market is great why are most fellows doing two fellowships? Wouldn’t you want to get a job as soon as possible out if residency?

I have been looking at jobs and there are no jobs near my hometown. Listen to recruiters who have experience hiring pathologists. I’ve talked to two and both mentioned the same thing. The job market is tight but one guy I talked to said the market is definitely opening up as compared to previous years.

 

[Med Director New England]

One caveat about the ‘great’ jobs in academia. Instructors make low 100s. You do that for a few yrs and 2-3 yrs later youre an assistant prof making 185.

this is in areas where a home in a decent area to send your kids to school is at least 500k. And this is for a shoebox, something you really want to live in is pushing a million.

Meanwhile every other specialty including the ones that have always had very low salaries (like FM, peds) are starting > 225k, all other sub-specialists except path are starting 300-400k and everyone except pathologists have multiple competing offers, + sign on bonuses, + opportunities to wipe all med school loans.

All of the program directors in the Boston area (except Remick) are flat out telling their residents to NOT expect to find a job in New England when they finish training. Not Boston - New England

 

[WEBB PINKERTON]

You guys need to learn to embrace rural areas. Who the hell would even want to live in Boston? It's easy to have an amazing quality of life while making less money in the country. Invest and start a lot of businesses you can make millions per year and continue to grow your empire. Then you can put pathology in the rear view mirror and no more worries.

 

[MetroPath]

Thanks for the post Webb. I agree there are opportunities in rural areas but some folks may not be happy to live there just like some wouldn’t be happy to live in Boston, which I wouldn’t want to live in as well. My point was the180k starting salary in a semirural place which I think is a lowball salary.

What type of businesses are you talking about? Millions per year? In that case, I’ll think about it lol

 

[Guest8]

You guys need to learn to embrace rural areas. Who the hell would even want to live in Boston? It's easy to have an amazing quality of life while making less money in the country. Invest and start a lot of businesses you can make millions per year and continue to grow your empire. Then you can put pathology in the rear view mirror and no more worries.

I currently live in Boston. Rural areas don't interest me in the least. There's more to life than money (I already invest far more than I spend annually) and I have no desire to start businesses. To each his/her own.

 

[Euchromatin]

Yeah I've heard that. The medical lab (not pathology directly) puts food on my table, so that plus my interest in histology makes me feel like I should really give it a shot before I write it off forever.

I'd definitely check it out, especially if you have some background knowledge about laboratory medicine to begin with. I also loved histology more than any other topic covered during the first 2 years of med school. Academic department would be more likely to have a more organized system in place for med student shadowing and rotations, but some private practices could be willing to let you hang around for a day or two.

Agree that our job market is very different from other specialties and the supply/demand issue contributes to this. You can't just find a job in any city and we are not highly recruited. But, I think if you go into it knowing that you can't be geographically restricted and have some ideas about how to make yourself valuable to the type of practice you want, I think it can be a great career.

I'll throw in the quick version of my own anecdotal experience: I did one fellowship in a somewhat, but not too niche AP organ system subspecialty. I was more interested in a PP position (note: I felt competent to do general surg path and willing to do CP stuff), but didn't completely limit my job search. I was approached through fellowship contacts/recruiters about 2-3 available academic positions that didn't appeal to me. I cold called a few PP groups that were not hiring in areas I was geographically interested in and got a mix of "we'll keep your CV on file" responses and ghosting. I applied to maybe 5-10 carefully selected positions posted on PathOutlines - those listing a preference for my fellowship training and a few more generic postings. I had 3 interviews and 2 offers. I took one from a larger PP group in a fairly rural area (not my first choice geographic region, but acceptable), starting around $225-250k. I agree that MetroPath's friend's $180k starting offer sounds low for a semirural area (would depend somewhat on more details). I continued to watch job postings and interviewed at another 2 places within the first 2 years I was in practice, but decided to stay. FYI - I know a LOT of people who moved jobs within the first couple years of practice. I'm now a partner in the practice and I'm very happy.

 

[Med Director New England]

You guys need to learn to embrace rural areas. Who the hell would even want to live in Boston? It's easy to have an amazing quality of life while making less money in the country. Invest and start a lot of businesses you can make millions per year and continue to grow your empire. Then you can put pathology in the rear view mirror and no more worries.

I am not plugging Boston - just pointing out a new grad will have trouble finding a good job anywhere in the whole of New England and making a statement about the job market in general. responsible program directors up here are actually letting new trainees know about this.

I love the small dairy farms in VT, the vast acreage in the pioneer valley, hiking the white mountains, small towns up and down the coast as much as anyone....

 

[rirriri]

One caveat about the ‘great’ jobs in academia. Instructors make low 100s. You do that for a few yrs and 2-3 yrs later youre an assistant prof making 185.

this is in areas where a home in a decent area to send your kids to school is at least 500k. And this is for a shoebox, something you really want to live in is pushing a million.

Meanwhile every other specialty including the ones that have always had very low salaries (like FM, peds) are starting > 225k, all other sub-specialists except path are starting 300-400k and everyone except pathologists have multiple competing offers, + sign on bonuses, + opportunities to wipe all med school loans.

All of the program directors in the Boston area (except Remick) are flat out telling their residents to NOT expect to find a job in New England when they finish training. Not Boston - New England

I would disagree with most of your numbers. Particularly your instructor base as well as your salaries for other specialties.

academia wise; don’t ever expect high salaries BUT we are consistently higher than Peds, FP, etc. according to AAMC and institutional so that is simply not true.

we don’t go into academia for money. We go for the overall picture and personal job satisfaction.

The original poster posted about shadowing and unfortunately a few bitter people have turned this thread into a thread about job market. What’s wrong with some of you?

not referrjng to you NE medical director referring to others. You peeps need to relax. Go for a night out or something...geez

 

[Med Director New England]

I would disagree with most of your numbers. Particularly your instructor base as well as your salaries for other specialties.

academia wise; don’t ever expect high salaries BUT we are consistently higher than Peds, FP, etc. according to AAMC and institutional so that is simply not true.

we don’t go into academia for money. We go for the overall picture and personal job satisfaction.

The original poster posted about shadowing and unfortunately a few bitter people have turned this thread into a thread about job market. What’s wrong with some of you?

not referrjng to you NE medical director referring to others. You peeps need to relax. Go for a night out or something...geez

You also mentioned the job market yourself, riri..my post was in response to yours that for some mentioned the job market. I felt compelled b/c I respectfully disagree with your opinion that the job market is good.

the numbers I posted about salaries are accurate for New England. This is the best a new grad up here can expect. I know path salaries because I am a pathologist in the area and the other fields that I mentioned specifics on salary are directly from a MD recruiter in the area.

so to reiterate a fresh out FM doc in New England can easily expect 225 base to start, 100k loan re-payment spread over 4 yrs, + rvu based bonus, 25-40k sign on bonus Paid on day 30 of employment. A path fresh out in New England just keeps doing fellowships they really don’t want to do until they get one of the academic jobs I describe (even if they have no desire for the life and pluses of academia that you mention).

or put differently - family docs fresh out of training in New England make a lot more than pathologists.

that’s the truth bro

I am not bitter but am worried about the profession.

 

[MetroPath]

I apologize to the original poster in regards to my post. I was just venting out of frustration in regards to the job market.

 

[yaah]

I have an occasional student that visits for a bit, seeing what we do and such. Sometimes it's a college student, sometimes beyond that. I think many pathologists would be open to this for someone who is interested.