AVMA Accreditation Called Into Question

[NStarz]

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http://news.vin.com/VINNews.aspx?articleId=34905&callshare=1

What do you guys think?

 

[deleted498041]

I'm just curious as to what's going to be done regarding the complaint that the COE is the only one responsible for accrediting vet schools, and that they're inherently biased. If we disband the COE, or take away their magical accreditation stick, what is going to pop up in their place? What plans do we have for the post-COE period? It seems like a lot of vets want the COE gone, or something to take its place, but I have yet to see any suggestions.

 

[that redhead]

Something needs to be done, and this at least looks like a step in the right direction. If nothing else, maybe it will rattle all the current people in power enough to get some changes made.

In my opinion, "disarming" the COE (essentially creating an accrediting freeze, so to speak) while they sort their sht out wouldn't be a bad start. But that's just me.

 

[Fly Racing]

There as several questions that need to be addressed before any definitive action could be taken. For example: What happens if the COE is determined to be unfit to accredit domestic vet schools? Who will fund and unbiasedly manage a new COE? How would the transition be managed so that the 30 (or 32 including SGU/Ross) accredited schools do not lapse accreditation which would prevent most of us from receiving federal student loans?

 

[deleted498041]

There as several questions that need to be addressed before any definitive action could be taken. For example: What happens if the COE is determined to be unfit to accredit domestic vet schools? Who will fund and unbiasedly manage a new COE? How would the transition be managed so that the 30 (or 32 including SGU/Ross) accredited schools do not lapse accreditation which would prevent most of us from receiving federal student loans?

These are the questions I would like answered before action is taken.
My college was one of the three put on probationary accreditation last year and our Dean informed as that if we entered a school when it was accredited, we could graduate from an accredited school -- as compared to incoming classes that would be coming in unaccredited and leaving unaccredited. I'm under the impression that it would still be the case if the COE were to be disarmed, in a manner of speaking, and as such we'd be able to continue receiving our federal loans. Anyone, feel free to correct me on this.
Also, I'm curious how this is managed in other professions. For MDs, DOs, DMDs, PharmDs, etc, are there foreign schools that are accredited? How does their accreditation process work, and should we be modeling ourselves after it?

 

[that redhead]

These are the questions I would like answered before action is taken.
My college was one of the three put on probationary accreditation last year and our Dean informed as that if we entered a school when it was accredited, we could graduate from an accredited school -- as compared to incoming classes that would be coming in unaccredited and leaving unaccredited. I'm under the impression that it would still be the case if the COE were to be disarmed, in a manner of speaking, and as such we'd be able to continue receiving our federal loans. Anyone, feel free to correct me on this.
Also, I'm curious how this is managed in other professions. For MDs, DOs, DMDs, PharmDs, etc, are there foreign schools that are accredited? How does their accreditation process work, and should we be modeling ourselves after it?

At least from what I understand of MD/DOs, if you don't attend med school in the US, you have very slim chances of entering your post-graduate training years (internships, residencies, etc) in the US.

I don't think those other programs are near in as much trouble as we are in veterinary medicine. I see people on the allo boards complain about how they'll "only" be making 150k soon after finishing residency...which would be a dream for most veterinary students to make ever, let alone shortly after completing their training. (To be fair, physicians do have a lot more required post-graduate training than we do.) Some of the specialists over there make upwards of half a million dollars a year. They're only starting to feel panicky over there about the fact that the number of available residency spots is nearing equal to the number of graduating students whereas we in vet med feel more of the heat from that actuality of not as many jobs available. Since we don't really work based around required residency, it's a bit different for us. But it will be interesting to see what they do about accrediting new schools when they reach that tipping point.

(Maybe @Mad Jack or someone better familiar with the system could chime in; this is pretty much all I know from just browsing over there regularly.)

 

[Mad Jack]

These are the questions I would like answered before action is taken.
My college was one of the three put on probationary accreditation last year and our Dean informed as that if we entered a school when it was accredited, we could graduate from an accredited school -- as compared to incoming classes that would be coming in unaccredited and leaving unaccredited. I'm under the impression that it would still be the case if the COE were to be disarmed, in a manner of speaking, and as such we'd be able to continue receiving our federal loans. Anyone, feel free to correct me on this.
Also, I'm curious how this is managed in other professions. For MDs, DOs, DMDs, PharmDs, etc, are there foreign schools that are accredited? How does their accreditation process work, and should we be modeling ourselves after it?

Foreign schools are not accredited in the MD world. Each state handles foreign schools in a different manner- some refer to the WHO's list of medical schools, while others have their own medical board approved lists (CA is notoriously difficult to gain acceptance with as a foreign school, for instance). You then have to take the USMLE Step 1 and Step 2 to be granted a medical license, and are subsequently eligible for residency. The way we keep foreign practitioners out is by requiring an ACGME or AOA residency, of which there are highly limited numbers. Roughly 60% of foreign grads fail to match every year, and thousands more still fail to pass their Steps. To further limit foreign competition, the number of US grads has increased substantially, to the point that by 2020, there should be an equal number of graduating medical students (MD+DO) to residency positions, severely limiting the ability of foreign graduates (Carib, etc) to match (personally, I think this is a bad thing, but with the residency shortage, it's kind of an inevitability- we're going to lose the ability to take in world-class physicians and researchers that happened to go to school abroad, aside from a select few that are taken over US grads).

If you were to model your system on ours, you'd basically have to create mandatory veterinary residencies, similar to what podiatry and dentistry has done. The residencies would become the bottleneck, and foreign students would be allowed to try to enter those residencies. Good foreign and domestic students would match, bad ones would be left without an ability to practice. Plus you'd have to sink more time into training... It's a pretty awful system for vets, honestly, it just wouldn't work.

So far as federal loans, you are correct, you will be eligible to both graduate as an accredited student (as accreditation in most fields covers incoming classes until graduation, barring the school being closed), and you will be eligible for federal loans.

 

[NStarz]

I don't think the intention is to disband the COE...just to remove the influence of the AVMA...sort of what happened when the NAVLE was taken away from the AVMA 20 years ago or so. All good questions, though, and there are definitely consequences to any kind of action.

That being said, I'm happy that these issues are being looked at critically.