Avoiding extra research year by knowing what specialty you want to go into?

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aalamruad

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Just asking for a rough estimate - for people shooting for top academic programs in competitive fields like nsg that require a lot of research, approximately what percent of applicants who took a research year to make their app more competitive could have avoided that extra year had they known as an MS1 that they wanted to enter that particular field? I hear a lot of people saying they took a research year because they were behind their peers who knew from the start what field they wanted to enter, but I'm wondering if there's still a substantial number of people who need to take the extra year even after working towards that field all throughout med school.

Does that percent vary significantly by med school rank/inbreeding prevalence?
 
Just asking for a rough estimate - for people shooting for top academic programs in competitive fields like nsg that require a lot of research, approximately what percent of applicants who took a research year to make their app more competitive could have avoided that extra year had they known as an MS1 that they wanted to enter that particular field? I hear a lot of people saying they took a research year because they were behind their peers who knew from the start what field they wanted to enter, but I'm wondering if there's still a substantial number of people who need to take the extra year even after working towards that field all throughout med school.

Does that percent vary significantly by med school rank/inbreeding prevalence?

I don't know too much about neurosurgery (I'm applying into Derm), but I would imagine that there are a group of applicants who cranked out research during M1 and M2 and then got a mediocre step 1 score. Depending on the rest of your application this may warrant a year off. What percentage of students are in this category I'm not sure. It may be worth PMing failedatlife he seems to be pretty knowledgeable about this topic.
 
I don't know too much about neurosurgery (I'm applying into Derm), but I would imagine that there are a group of applicants who cranked out research during M1 and M2 and then got a mediocre step 1 score. Depending on the rest of your application this may warrant a year off. What percentage of students are in this category I'm not sure. It may be worth PMing failedatlife he seems to be pretty knowledgeable about this topic.
Got it, that makes sense. If one were to crank out research during M1 and M2 and also got a solid step score (for nsg/derm/etc), would there really ever be any reason that you'd need to take a research year?
 
Got it, that makes sense. If one were to crank out research during M1 and M2 and also got a solid step score (for nsg/derm/etc), would there really ever be any reason that you'd need to take a research year?

Stellar research + high board scores + solid third year grades = ticket to competitive residency. If you lack slightly in one area, the other two areas can make up for it to a certain extent. The worse you do in these categories the more likely one may need to take a research year. However, there is not one cut and dry rule for taking a research year. After all is said and done you can talk to department advisors/students who have applied in the specialty, and look at NRMP data yourself. This will give you an idea of your competitiveness to see if you will benefit from a research year.
 
I don't know too much about neurosurgery (I'm applying into Derm), but I would imagine that there are a group of applicants who cranked out research during M1 and M2 and then got a mediocre step 1 score. Depending on the rest of your application this may warrant a year off. What percentage of students are in this category I'm not sure. It may be worth PMing failedatlife he seems to be pretty knowledgeable about this topic.

I would say that the M1 de-escalation to M2 period is the best time to start and get the bulk of research done. While I can also imagine a group that does this and fails (supposedly failedatlife) most people who I know who adopted this strategy have 250+ steps gunning for Ortho or Derm. Point is I wouldn't see any risk in doing field specific research then because if you don't do tha field because you bomb Step, I could see it valuable in Gen Surg or IM.

I think for competitive fields like Orthopedics and Dermatology from what I've seen, a research year vs. matching sometimes can largely on subjective factors out of your control. Everyone applying usually has the numbers and research due to self selection and most people gunning for these fields are hard workers so it makes sense they'll work hard on whatever rotations/aways these fields require. What I see a lot of which is kind of stupid (but what do I know shooting for IM) is an overimportance of seeking out the right mentors with the right reputation but I guess I'm also detached from the real world after being in school for 18 years. Some people make those connections and get a spot in, other don't or put their eggs in the wrong basket mentor-wise and those otherwise equally qualified applicants slip through the cracks sometimes even with the right mentors for stupid reasons I've heard like they weren't memorable or chill.

To ultimately answer your question OP, I think if you want Derm, Ortho, ENT, or possibly Ophthamology/Urology, you need to know from day 1 how important class-rank, performance, research, and mentorship is to be competitive. At least looking back that's how it would have had to have been for me. I feel like I worked pretty hard in medical school but in order to have been competitive for one of those fields, I would have needed someone to come into my life, hold my hand, and show me how hard I had to work. That's me, some others may be more
talented. I have one or two decent stats but I know I'm not gonna be able to just jump into Ortho (my dream field) as much as I'd have liked to based on numerous factors.

Now that I said that, let's look at the research year. I'm gonna borrow from AK's post and say let's assume that competitive residency = excellent board scores, high Year 3 grades, and high quality research. Say you have 1/3 of those things (strong Step) but your year 3 is mixed with HP/P's and you have no decent research. If you take a year and obtain research, it'll be institution specific and may not even be what most programs are looking for or why they rejected you. The year may significantly bolster your chances of matching at that program, but it won't do loads to your overall resume besides probably give you another shot at the field as well as show your dedication which makes sense if you're already at 2+/3 in those categories. Overall, out of all of this, I wouldn't really count on a research year as a way to catch up. I feel like knowing you want DUEOO from the beginning is actually probably more valuable than shooting for diminishing returns in a research year when you're application is already strong.

Kind of all over the place and I'm not a prospective DUEOO candidate, but I had some second guessing midway through and considered some of these fields and these were my opinions based, of course, on circumstantial evidence I'm surrounded by.
 
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Say you have 1/3 of those things (strong Step) but your year 3 is mixed with HP/P's and you have no decent research. If you take a year and obtain research, it'll be institution specific and may not even be what most programs are looking for or why they rejected you. The year may significantly bolster your chances of matching at that program, but it won't do loads to your overall resume besides probably give you another shot at the field as well as show your dedication which makes sense if you're already at 2+/3 in those categories. Overall, out of all of this, I wouldn't really count on a research year as a way to catch up. I fee like knowing you wants DUEOO

This logic doesn't really make sense to me. If you don't already have a mostly perfect application you should just say **** it and give up rather than do something that will make you a more competitive applicant? I'd expect someone with a strong step, so-so clinical grades, and no research would benefit significantly from taking a productive, specialty-specific research year for any of the fields you mentioned. Assuming you publish, research is not institution specific.
 
This logic doesn't really make sense to me. If you don't already have a mostly perfect application you should just say **** it and give up rather than do something that will make you a more competitive applicant? I'd expect someone with a strong step, so-so clinical grades, and no research would benefit significantly from taking a productive, specialty-specific research year for any of the fields you mentioned. Assuming you publish, research is not institution specific.

Fair enough. I just have a hard time seeing it make a difference because I view research as the least valuable of year 3/step/research triad. Also, you're absolutely right about research being universal if done well, but an opportunity I've seen is one where the research year is not only just publishing papers but a lot of working with faculty on curriculum and doing a lot of institution specific stuff like assisting staff and probably as a result making relationships with them instead of textbook chapters and publications in high impact journals. Also, the one Ortho project I participated in seemed to be mainly about promoting a feature of that department as opposed to doing something that would be valuable and reproducible across multiple centers. I.e. Once it was clear we wouldn't see promotional benefit, the project was scrapped.
 
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I knew I was interested in a competitive specialty early on, so I started doing research in that field before MS1 year. I figured some research was better than no research if I ended up liking a less competitive specialty. But since I ended up choosing ortho anyway, I didn't have to do a research year. A few of the people that did a research year did it to primarily strengthen research, some did it because their board scores were a bit lower and having a powerhouse research app can help out a lot. FWIW, both of the people that matched in NSG opted not to do research but got plenty of research done during med school. The key is getting involved early and continuing to get research on your CV even when you feel busy with other stuff. And using the summer between MS1 and MS2 to cover a lot of ground (which sucks because other people are off doing cool things and you are in a lab or looking at spreadsheets). It's worth it, though!

Switching to a completely different competitive specialty last minute might necessitate a research year.
 
Got it, that makes sense. If one were to crank out research during M1 and M2 and also got a solid step score (for nsg/derm/etc), would there really ever be any reason that you'd need to take a research year?

Since we are on the same page school wise, (and perhaps specialty interests?), everything I've found says most people do not take a year off.

@mmmcdowe has specific numbers for NSG, and I believe it's less than half. That would include those taking it to beef up and counter bad step, as well as those who realized late and need NSG specific research for their app. He also mentioned that though it's less than half of ALL applicants, it's higher for applicants targeting certain schools. He told me applicants from schools like UCSF and Columbia are more likely to take the year, but they also have more research on average than other schools, I believe.

Another way I looked at this was to look at the residency profile pages at specific schools. At some schools, like UCSF, half the residents have PhDs, many have master's, and some have done fellowships. They have "year granted" so you can see if that was MD/PhD or MD/MPH/MPP or whatever versus someone coming into medical school with a degree.


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I knew I was interested in a competitive specialty early on, so I started doing research in that field before MS1 year. I figured some research was better than no research if I ended up liking a less competitive specialty. But since I ended up choosing ortho anyway, I didn't have to do a research year. A few of the people that did a research year did it to primarily strengthen research, some did it because their board scores were a bit lower and having a powerhouse research app can help out a lot. FWIW, both of the people that matched in NSG opted not to do research but got plenty of research done during med school. The key is getting involved early and continuing to get research on your CV even when you feel busy with other stuff. And using the summer between MS1 and MS2 to cover a lot of ground (which sucks because other people are off doing cool things and you are in a lab or looking at spreadsheets). It's worth it, though!

Switching to a completely different competitive specialty last minute might necessitate a research year.
That makes sense, thanks for your input! I'm glad to hear your perspective about getting involved with field-specific research pre-M1; I just picked up a clinical research project in nsg that I'm hoping to wrap up before med school starts, so it's good to hear that a similar plan worked out for you. I'm planning on taking a month or two to adjust to med school without doing any research once it starts, but I'm hoping it'll be easier to continue with nsg research during M1 as a result of having already dipped my toes in the water.

Since we are on the same page school wise, (and perhaps specialty interests?), everything I've found says most people do not take a year off.

@mmmcdowe has specific numbers for NSG, and I believe it's less than half. That would include those taking it to beef up and counter bad step, as well as those who realized late and need NSG specific research for their app. He also mentioned that though it's less than half of ALL applicants, it's higher for applicants targeting certain schools. He told me applicants from schools like UCSF and Columbia are more likely to take the year, but they also have more research on average than other schools, I believe.

Another way I looked at this was to look at the residency profile pages at specific schools. At some schools, like UCSF, half the residents have PhDs, many have master's, and some have done fellowships. They have "year granted" so you can see if that was MD/PhD or MD/MPH/MPP or whatever versus someone coming into medical school with a degree.


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Thanks for all the info! Definitely glad to hear that most people don't take the extra year. But I'd absolutely love to stay in the bay after med school, so it wouldn't surprise me if I needed to take a research year to end up at UCSF (or Stanford) for residency. From looking through the profiles of the 19 current UCSF nsg residents, 4 got their MDs from UCSF and none of those 4 went straight bachelor's -> MD -> residency (1 had a PhD before med school, 2 did MD/PhD, and 1 took a research year). I doubt I'll be the exception to the rule, but the more I think about it, the more I realize it wouldn't be the worst thing in the world to get to stay in SF for an extra year doing research that I love :joyful:
 
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