I'm thinking about applying to some Developmental and maybe School Psych PhD programs as back-ups in case I don't get into Clinical PhD progrs. What do people think about that? Are School Psych and Dev PhD programs much easier to get into?
Back up Programs
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Whether or not they are easier, I think the more important question is 'will the degree allow you to meet your career goals?' Having a doctorate is nice, but if it doesn't let you do what you want to do, it really diminishes the value.
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Agreed, I'd be careful going for a "second choice" degree. We're talking about what you can do with the rest of your life here!
I mean, if you would be happy as a school psychologist, then go for it! But if its a distant second to clinical, I wouldn't. Much better to take a year or two off, become a stronger applicant, and reapply than spend the next 50 years thinking "I really wish I could have gotten into a clinical program".
I mean, if you would be happy as a school psychologist, then go for it! But if its a distant second to clinical, I wouldn't. Much better to take a year or two off, become a stronger applicant, and reapply than spend the next 50 years thinking "I really wish I could have gotten into a clinical program".
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Also, if you're interested in research, you're going to need to attend a really excellent developmental program (it's arguable that the "status" of your program and advisor matters much more for research than clinical work, especially if you're interested in landing a tenure-track position). The top developmental programs are about equally difficult to get into compared with funded clinical programs (I know some people are going to argue with this, but you're facing very similar hurdles, namely, lots of qualified applicants competing for a very small number of positions, with acceptance based primarily on the always illusive "research match" factor).
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If yopu are interested in practice in clinical psych maybe the psyD degree would be a more appropriate backup plan. There are a couple of respectable PsyD programs that are easyer to get into than Phd programs.
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In my opinion, it's not that the programs are less competitive because the programs look for the same things that clinical programs are looking for. You will need research experience, strong letters of recommendation, good GRE scores, and a good GPA. The difference is that instead of having like 200 people vying for 5 spots, you'll have like 100 people vying for those spots.
Also, I dislike how school psychology and developmental programs were seen as "back up" programs. There are training differences between these programs and clinical programs, but they are by no means substandard to clinical programs.
Also, I dislike how school psychology and developmental programs were seen as "back up" programs. There are training differences between these programs and clinical programs, but they are by no means substandard to clinical programs.
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I also think it's very possible that clinical programs tend to get a higher number of completely unqualified applicants. You know the type - they get out of college and don't know what they want to do with their lives and then think, "Gee, I like talking to people. I'll be a psychologist!" And then they apply with only OK GPAs and GRE scores, no research or clinical experience, and, in some cases, no psych courses. And of course they don't have a prayer of getting in, but they still ramp up the number of applicants.
On the other hand, I think most people applying for developmental programs have done a little bit more thinking about whether they want to devote their lives to doing research and have probably had some sort of research experience. And school programs just aren't as well known, so people may need to spend more time learning about the degree and whether it's right for them. Just spending some time thinking about whether a graduate program would be a good match makes them a heck of a lot more qualified than the "I'm going to be a psychologist because I don't know what else to do and I'm applying to UCLA because I like Southern CA" types.
On the other hand, I think most people applying for developmental programs have done a little bit more thinking about whether they want to devote their lives to doing research and have probably had some sort of research experience. And school programs just aren't as well known, so people may need to spend more time learning about the degree and whether it's right for them. Just spending some time thinking about whether a graduate program would be a good match makes them a heck of a lot more qualified than the "I'm going to be a psychologist because I don't know what else to do and I'm applying to UCLA because I like Southern CA" types.
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You might want to check the stats of places before you apply to them as safeties. Every PhD school psych program I've seen has had stats as tough (in some cases, tougher) than those of the Clinical PhD programs I'm also looking into. If you don't know about the field, don't know about the schools, and have no interest in the profession, you'll simply be throwing time and money away - two resources that almost certainly would have strengthened your applications to schools and programs you'd actually like to go to.
I guess I should've prefaced my original question with a little background: I've already applied to Clinical PhDs in the past and I (as many others no doubt) believe that I am very well prepared to face the admission process this year (esp b/c I've been through it before).
I would like to choose Dev or School PhD programs as back-ups b/c I am interested in teaching and research primarily. The reason I'm not choosing Dev or School programs as my primary choice is b/c the focus of Clinical programs matches ALL of my interests and desires. I have selected a couple of Dev or School programs that have great research matches and some of the programs are quite unique in their focus.
I just wanted to ask you guys out there about whether these could truly be considered as "back ups" or whether they are just as tough to get in to. It seems like most people are saying that they will be as tough to get in to. I've heard other people say that this is what they will be doing as well...any other thoughts? PsyD is not right for me b/c I am interested in academia and not primarily clinical work.
I would like to choose Dev or School PhD programs as back-ups b/c I am interested in teaching and research primarily. The reason I'm not choosing Dev or School programs as my primary choice is b/c the focus of Clinical programs matches ALL of my interests and desires. I have selected a couple of Dev or School programs that have great research matches and some of the programs are quite unique in their focus.
I just wanted to ask you guys out there about whether these could truly be considered as "back ups" or whether they are just as tough to get in to. It seems like most people are saying that they will be as tough to get in to. I've heard other people say that this is what they will be doing as well...any other thoughts? PsyD is not right for me b/c I am interested in academia and not primarily clinical work.
Many are very hard to get into yes. On average I think clinical is slightly harder but it obviously depends on the schools. I could easily pick 10 developmental schools with much lower acceptance rates than 10 clinical programs if I wanted to.
However, applying to more schools always increases your odds of getting in SOMEWHERE (as long as you aren't applying to so many places you can't do a good job on your apps).
So if the school/developmental programs fit what your research interests than I say go for it. But if its a stretch, I'd say you're better off applying to a few other clinical programs instead.
However, applying to more schools always increases your odds of getting in SOMEWHERE (as long as you aren't applying to so many places you can't do a good job on your apps).
So if the school/developmental programs fit what your research interests than I say go for it. But if its a stretch, I'd say you're better off applying to a few other clinical programs instead.
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I applied to some human development programs as well as clinical, but I did it because they matched my interests. I didn't really consider them to be safety schools. The acceptance rates are different (I definitely giggled a bit at one visitation weekend where they announced that we were the "elite 11 percent" when the acceptance rates at the clinically programs I applied to are like .08 percent), but the students I met were definitely not any less qualified. In fact, I would say they were more qualified in some ways. They were older and had some really amazing life experiences (e.g. "I taught English in Zimbabwe for a year while studying the language structures of indigenous peoples"); I thought clinical applicants tended to be a bit more cookie cutter.
BTW, I seriously considered attending a human development program, and would have picked them over most of the clinical programs I applied to (I ended up choosing a joint clinical/developmental program, which is sort of the best of both worlds!). Which developmental programs are you thinking of applying to?
BTW, I seriously considered attending a human development program, and would have picked them over most of the clinical programs I applied to (I ended up choosing a joint clinical/developmental program, which is sort of the best of both worlds!). Which developmental programs are you thinking of applying to?
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Keep in mind that most scientist-practitioner School Ph.D. programs prepare you for licensure as an applied Psychologist and train you to be a scientist/researcher. Developmental Ph.D. programs and human development programs generally do not train you to be an applied psychologists, but train individuals to be researchers (though as mentioned, there are a few programs that are developmental/clinical which train for both). You may already know this distinction, but just want to make sure you know the difference in training between programs. The question is: Do you want just the research training or the practitioner training as well?
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If you want to apply to schools as "backups" then why not stick with the same degree or focus that you started with? Why go for an entirely different degree, that will probably be equally as much work but in an area that might not interest you as much? Maybe you could apply to quality but less competitive PhDs?
Oh, I'm definitely doing that as well, however I heard that no clinical program could really be considered a "back up" because they're so competitive and also that there's politics involved in "less" competitive schools- they don't want to be turned down by people who they think will get into better programs and therefore don't bother to interview/accept them.
