backup plan

[RADONCwannabe09]

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Lets say I have a friend who wants to be a radiation oncologist but is a little nervous that he might not get in the first time round. Okay it's me. What are good backup plans to make myself more competitive the next time around.

I'm guessing it wouldn't be smart to accept a transitional year program spot without a rad onc spot offered to me. Is a prelim medicine spot the way to go? Can most prelim years count toward the categorical medicine should I not get in the second time around either? Or would I be more competitive the second time around looking for a full time research position, MS in med physics, or something else? My last option would be to also apply this year for my (distant) 2nd choice Radiology, although that isn't exactly the ideal backup plan seeing that it is still pretty competitive.

Hopefully I get in the first time around but would like to give myself the best shot at next year if not. What to you all think?

 

[iradi8u]

I've met several people who finished 3 years of internal medicine and then got spots in radonc. I guess you could go that route if needed & try for heme/onc if you don't get what you want?

 

[cgk]

Lets say I have a friend who wants to be a radiation oncologist but is a little nervous that he might not get in the first time round. Okay it's me. What are good backup plans to make myself more competitive the next time around.

I'm guessing it wouldn't be smart to accept a transitional year program spot without a rad onc spot offered to me. Is a prelim medicine spot the way to go? Can most prelim years count toward the categorical medicine should I not get in the second time around either? Or would I be more competitive the second time around looking for a full time research position, MS in med physics, or something else? My last option would be to also apply this year for my (distant) 2nd choice Radiology, although that isn't exactly the ideal backup plan seeing that it is still pretty competitive.

Hopefully I get in the first time around but would like to give myself the best shot at next year if not. What to you all think?

I am also interested in radiation oncology, and am a bit worried about how darn competetive it has become, and the prospects of matching. I would be interested in knowing what do you feel are your strengths as well as weaknesses as a competative applicant?

 

[Pewl]

I am also interested in radiation oncology, and am a bit worried about how darn competetive it has become, and the prospects of matching. I would be interested in knowing what do you feel are your strengths as well as weaknesses as a competative applicant?

Given your previous post in another thread, I highly doubt you will have too much trouble matching! Congrats on your amazing numbers.
As far as rad onc goes, it seems that the programs like to see lots of extracurricular involvement in the field.

 

[cgk]

Given your previous post in another thread, I highly doubt you will have too much trouble matching! Congrats on your amazing numbers.
As far as rad onc goes, it seems that the programs like to see lots of extracurricular involvement in the field.

Do they like to see Step 2 scores, or should I leave well enough alone and take them after I submit my ERAS application?

 

[napoleondynamite]

Do they like to see Step 2 scores, or should I leave well enough alone and take them after I submit my ERAS application?

If you nailed step 1, I wouldn't worry about posting step 2. If you stunk it up on step one, step 2 could maybe help a little. But I doubt it has a huge impact on your application either way. If you are really sweating your step 1 score, you could always take step 2 with the caveat that you elect to manually release your scores. That way, if you smoke it, you can release that puppy. If you tank it, you haven't damaged yourself at all. G'luck. ND.

 

[cgk]

If you nailed step 1, I wouldn't worry about posting step 2. If you stunk it up on step one, step 2 could maybe help a little. But I doubt it has a huge impact on your application either way. If you are really sweating your step 1 score, you could always take step 2 with the caveat that you elect to manually release your scores. That way, if you smoke it, you can release that puppy. If you tank it, you haven't damaged yourself at all. G'luck. ND.

I got 265 on Step 1, and wasn't planning to take step 2 until after I submitted my ERAS, however I am hearing that more and more programs won't even consider interviewing you without Step 2 scores. Was that your experience? Do you know anything about this trend?

 

[yeasterbunny]

...I am hearing that more and more programs won't even consider interviewing you without Step 2 scores. Was that your experience? Do you know anything about this trend?

I have a hard time believing this. I don't think anyone cares about Step 2 (unless it's a super-great score outshining a crappy Step 1, as noted above). At least it never came up for me last year, and I never released my scores. The only time I have heard such rumors are out of programs' concern that you might match with them and then fail Step 2, but I think they realize that if you are competetive enough to match in rad onc you probably will have no problem passing Step 2.

 

[IRISH22]

back the original post...I think that taking a TY spot and not getting RO would be a bad thing. I agree that you do get more elective time, but I cant imagine they'd let you leave the city and do an away somewhere--after all you're still an intern at their hospital and they're paying you. The downside is what if you dont get RO, even after the second time around. If you decide to throw in the towel (probably teh right move), you have essentially wasted a year, since TY years dont count for much these days.

On the other hand, if you do match prelim medicine and not RO, also be sure that the program will allow you to matriculate as a categorical after your prelim (if for instance you decide to give up on RO). I say this b/c some programs take many more prelims than cats and they literally wouldnt have a space for you if you wanted to stay. That being said, with the attrition rate at most larger programs it really isnt that big an issue.

I guess my advice for those of you who are serioulsy afraid of not matching (and I'm not talking to you, 265 guy; Im talking to the folks with the 210's from lower tier schools) would be to rank a prelim medicine program last on your primary list (ie, beneath all the RO programs). NRMP will allow you to do this (I did it). This means if you dont match at any RO program, it will plug you into a prelim year provided you match there. Then you could get the medicine year out of the way and start re-applying. If you dont get in the second time around, you might as well just finish off medicine and reapply when you're done. BEWARE: this would prevent you from taking part in the "scramble" for spare RO spots. I dont think this is that big of a deal, especially if you are seriously borderline, b/c there are hardly any spots to have (one last year). I guess I'd rather have the prelim spot of my choice than have to scramble into one of them as well. (remember the prelims and TY's typically go on the "supplemental list" and you wont match into these unless you match into a corresponding program from your primary list)

Hope this helps those folks really thinking about backups/reapplying

 

[cgk]

back the original post...I think that taking a TY spot and not getting RO would be a bad thing. I agree that you do get more elective time, but I cant imagine they'd let you leave the city and do an away somewhere--after all you're still an intern at their hospital and they're paying you. The downside is what if you dont get RO, even after the second time around. If you decide to throw in the towel (probably teh right move), you have essentially wasted a year, since TY years dont count for much these days.

On the other hand, if you do match prelim medicine and not RO, also be sure that the program will allow you to matriculate as a categorical after your prelim (if for instance you decide to give up on RO). I say this b/c some programs take many more prelims than cats and they literally wouldnt have a space for you if you wanted to stay. That being said, with the attrition rate at most larger programs it really isnt that big an issue.

I guess my advice for those of you who are serioulsy afraid of not matching (and I'm not talking to you, 265 guy; Im talking to the folks with the 210's from lower tier schools) would be to rank a prelim medicine program last on your primary list (ie, beneath all the RO programs). NRMP will allow you to do this (I did it). This means if you dont match at any RO program, it will plug you into a prelim year provided you match there. Then you could get the medicine year out of the way and start re-applying. If you dont get in the second time around, you might as well just finish off medicine and reapply when you're done. BEWARE: this would prevent you from taking part in the "scramble" for spare RO spots. I dont think this is that big of a deal, especially if you are seriously borderline, b/c there are hardly any spots to have (one last year). I guess I'd rather have the prelim spot of my choice than have to scramble into one of them as well. (remember the prelims and TY's typically go on the "supplemental list" and you wont match into these unless you match into a corresponding program from your primary list)

Hope this helps those folks really thinking about backups/reapplying

Does this mean that if I dont match into RO and don't match into the preliminary medicine spot that I listed last on my primary list, that I would have missed matching for prelim medicine as well as RO, and would no longer have the option of scrambling into either program?

 

[yeasterbunny]

Does this mean that if I dont match into RO and don't match into the preliminary medicine spot that I listed last on my primary list, that I would have missed matching for prelim medicine as well as RO, and would no longer have the option of scrambling into either program?

If you don't match in either you are free to try to scramble anywhere you want. It should be fairly easy to get into a prelim though if you think you are anywhere near competetive enough to be applying in rad onc. Of course, if you are that worried you could always put more than one prelim at the bottom of the list (back up your backups). 😱

 

[cgk]

back the original post...I think that taking a TY spot and not getting RO would be a bad thing. I agree that you do get more elective time, but I cant imagine they'd let you leave the city and do an away somewhere--after all you're still an intern at their hospital and they're paying you. The downside is what if you dont get RO, even after the second time around. If you decide to throw in the towel (probably teh right move), you have essentially wasted a year, since TY years dont count for much these days.

On the other hand, if you do match prelim medicine and not RO, also be sure that the program will allow you to matriculate as a categorical after your prelim (if for instance you decide to give up on RO). I say this b/c some programs take many more prelims than cats and they literally wouldnt have a space for you if you wanted to stay. That being said, with the attrition rate at most larger programs it really isnt that big an issue.

I guess my advice for those of you who are serioulsy afraid of not matching (and I'm not talking to you, 265 guy; Im talking to the folks with the 210's from lower tier schools) would be to rank a prelim medicine program last on your primary list (ie, beneath all the RO programs). NRMP will allow you to do this (I did it). This means if you dont match at any RO program, it will plug you into a prelim year provided you match there. Then you could get the medicine year out of the way and start re-applying. If you dont get in the second time around, you might as well just finish off medicine and reapply when you're done. BEWARE: this would prevent you from taking part in the "scramble" for spare RO spots. I dont think this is that big of a deal, especially if you are seriously borderline, b/c there are hardly any spots to have (one last year). I guess I'd rather have the prelim spot of my choice than have to scramble into one of them as well. (remember the prelims and TY's typically go on the "supplemental list" and you wont match into these unless you match into a corresponding program from your primary list)

Hope this helps those folks really thinking about backups/reapplying

Sorry to sound stupid, but can someone clarify The "Beware" portion of the above post. I don't understand why I couldn't scramble in RO if I needed to in the above situation. Someone please explain. thanks!

 

[napoleondynamite]

Actually, I don't think what you are saying about the scramble is correct (unless things have changed). I was really freaked out about this when I applied, so I researched it thoroughly at the time.

If you put a PRELIM medicine spot last on your rank list, you can still participate in the scramble, even if you match into a prelim spot. The match algorithm assumes that all applicants wish to match into a full residency, not just an intern year. So if you are an unlucky soul who only gets the prelim spot and no radonc..you could still go after any (if there are any) unfilled positions.

I employed the same strategy as IRISH when I applied. I figured (whether it's right or not, I dunno) I'd be more competetive as an applicant coming from a prelim program than a TY, so I put a prelim program at the bottom of my match list. But I gotta say, I am SOOOOOOOOOOOOO glad that I matched into a TY 😀 Best of luck. ND.

 

[cgk]

Actually, I don't think what you are saying about the scramble is correct (unless things have changed). I was really freaked out about this when I applied, so I researched it thoroughly at the time.

If you put a PRELIM medicine spot last on your rank list, you can still participate in the scramble, even if you match into a prelim spot. The match algorithm assumes that all applicants wish to match into a full residency, not just an intern year. So if you are an unlucky soul who only gets the prelim spot and no radonc..you could still go after any (if there are any) unfilled positions.

I employed the same strategy as IRISH when I applied. I figured (whether it's right or not, I dunno) I'd be more competetive as an applicant coming from a prelim program than a TY, so I put a prelim program at the bottom of my match list. But I gotta say, I am SOOOOOOOOOOOOO glad that I matched into a TY 😀 Best of luck. ND.

Did you put your TY spots on your secondary list?

 

[RadOncRudy]

Most people do put the TY spots just on their secondary list. You can also list prelim med spots there too, although most people rank all their TY programs highest (obviously). In addition, if you were wanting to rank a prelim medicine program on your primary list as a back-up you can put the program on that list as well. Good luck!

 

[IRISH22]

yeah, sorry for the confusion on my last post. ND is right. If you put a prelim year at the bottom of your primary list you can still scramble. What I meant is if you put medicine--categorical at the bottom, and you dropped that far, you would be obligated to do the medicine residency and could not scramble.

 

[MidwestRO]

If you are seriously concerned and the issue is lack of research, consider taking a research year rather than going straight into a prelim. As an intern, it is going to be quite difficult to find the time to 1) do research/publish/present 2) do aways 3) apply and 4) interview again while fulfilling your clinical duties. For most, taking a year off is not an appealing option, but it's better than applying again (during internship) with essentially the same application. I've heard that Doris Duke is getting squeamish about accepting M4s, but there are other research programs out there, and some department chairs will even consider taking their own students on as departmental research assistants for a year given the increasingly competitive Match.

Caveat to this: If you choose to go the research path, plan to be incredibly productive for the first few months at least. Otherwise, you'll learn a ton, but you won't have much to show on your CV as of Sept. when apps are submitted. A supportive and proactive mentor can be helpful in this situation to line you up with projects that can be accomplished in the short-term and yet are relevant enough to garner attention.

 

[Adawaal]

yeah, sorry for the confusion on my last post. ND is right. If you put a prelim year at the bottom of your primary list you can still scramble. What I meant is if you put medicine--categorical at the bottom, and you dropped that far, you would be obligated to do the medicine residency and could not scramble.

Actually, by matching you are only contractually obligated to complete one year of training, NOT the ENTIRE residency. Residency training positions in the US are based on annual contracts and not for the duration of training. In fact, after matching, you still have to actually sign your contract for your PGY-1 year, so you're not LEGALLY obligated to go to where you match for training. Failing to do so, however, is a MATCH violation, and the potential sanction is being barred from future participation in the NRMP process.