Bad GPA, Good MCAT, Reapplicant School List

[hachiuma2000]

I need help-badly. I am a re-applicant from 2019. Back then, I applied with a similar GPA but much fewer clinical hours and a 512. I applied to 20 schools, and I plan on including most of those on my list for this year. Yes- I don’t have DOs on this list- mainly because I don’t have any DO letters. I don’t want to sound pessimistic, but if I’m doing this all again next year, I will make sure I have a DO letter and I’ll apply broadly to DO. I want to apply to at least 30 MD schools. It’s tough with my wacky stats. I don’t know what schools to add-on here.

• State/Country of Residence: IL
• Ties to other States/Regions: Family in California, worked for a UC
• URM? (Y/N): No
• Year in School: Graduated 2018 from T10
• Undergraduate Major(s)/Minor(s): Biology
• Graduate Degrees (if applicable): N/A
• Cumulative GPA: ~3.40 cGPA (2.81 -> 3.25 -> 3.73 -> 3.64)
• Science GPA: ~3.20 (2.48 -> 2.70 -> 3.43 -> 3.58). I plan on taking more classes starting this summer (I have a tuition benefit) but I understand these new classes won’t count toward my GPA this cycle. I plan on taking maybe 6 more classes through Spring 2023. So far, I've only taken 3 post-bacc high level science classes (I'm counting them in my total GPA, not the trend)- all A's in those but it's obviously not much.
• MCAT Score(s): 520 (130/132/128/130)
• Research Experience: 1280 hours in undergrad orgo lab. 2400 hours as a full time research assistant position at a UC med school (research was biochem focused).
• Publications/Abstracts/Posters: I’m on two manuscripts from the research assistant position, but, not published atm, so they don't do me much good. My PI from this job will write me a letter of rec. Was awarded an undergrad research grant for a project in 2017.

• Clinical Experience (paid): Currently a CRC, very patient-facing (physical assessments, interviews, consenting, etc). By May, I will have 800 hours in this position. The clinical director (MD) is also writing me a letter of rec.
• Clinical Experience (volunteer): 100 hours of nursing home volunteering in 2017-2018.
• Physician Shadowing: 30 hours of shadowing an anesthesiologist in 2018, plus 35 hours of home health nurse shadowing in 2018. I currently work under a team of MDs but finding more shadowing (given COVID and Telehealth) is hard atm.
• Non-Clinical Volunteering: Around 30 hours as a crisis counselor. Hopefully will increase this to 50 or more hours by mid-May. Around 100 hours volunteering at a group home for teenage girls (I wasn’t in direct contact with the residents so I wouldn’t count this as clinical volunteering).
• Other Employment History: Currently work as a tutor (approximately 12 hours a week) with high school kids. I'd say I'll a total of 400 hours as a tutor by May. Worked as an advisor for disadvantaged kids through an Americorps affiliated position (paid) for one year after graduation (around 1200 hours).
• Immediate family members in medicine? (Y/N): Mom's a nurse practitioner- other than that, no.
• Specialty of Interest (if applicable): Family medicine, anesthesiology
• Interest in Primary Care (Y/N): Yes
• Interest in Rural Health (Y/N): Not really?
• Medical School List:
• Rush
• MCW
• UW Madison
• Loyola
• Tulane
• NYMC
• Rosalind Franklin
• Drexel
• Geisinger
• Wake Forest
• Tulane
• Quinnipiac
• Virginia Tech
• Virginia Commonwealth
• Creighton
• Albany Medical college
• SIU
• UIC
• TCU
• Tufts
• Dartmouth
• Loma Linda
• University of Vermont

I've gotten a mixed bag of responses regarding my app this cycle. One person said I should totally forget MD, get a masters, and see what happens then, while others told me to go for it. Hopefully, around 13.5 to 16.2 credit hours of post-bacc on top of the 8.1 hours (at a 4.0) I have right now will help me if I apply again next year. I will consistently update schools w/ grades as well.

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[Goro]

Can't sugarcoat this, the GPaS are lethal for MD schools. You're fine for D0.

Congrats on the sky-high MCat, but it's not going to remediate your GPAS. In fact it will just heightens the discrepancy between the two.

Just a stab in the dark, you're not a Seventh-Day Adventist are you?

Non-clinical volunteering is really really weak.

If you're not from Southern Illinois, forget about SIU.

UW, geisinger and VA Tech will be donations.

Ace the postbac courses and check back next cycle if you're gunning for MD.

 

[chilly_md]

Most DO schools just require a physician letter. It does not have to be from a DO.

 

[hachiuma2000]

What if by next year, the highest I could get the sGPA is to a 3.35 (that would be a cumulative total of 24.3 post-bacc hours, in addition to my clinical job)? I would hope that adcoms would look at my upward trend. Would that make me a decent applicant for MD (I heard some schools look at the latest 24-30 post-bacc hours seriously) or would it still be a huge risk? Next year, I'll be applying DO as well.

 

[chilly_md]

That is about an extra semester’s worth of classes on top of what you have now. It is not a lot extra to show you are a different student, given you still have a 3.35.

Your last shadowing was 4 years ago. The hours with the home health nurse don't belong there either. I would suggest shadowing different specialities. You have a research heavy app, with the majority of you clinical experience also being in that area. The Americorps affiliated position hopefully helps your very low non-clinical hours, but what was your involvement?

 

[Faha]

I do not understand your strategy of waiting another year to apply to DO school. Most DO schools do not require a DO letter.
I suggest these DO schools with your stats:
CCOM
MU-COM
DMU-COM
ATSU-KCOM
KCU-COM
AZCOM
TUNCOM
WESTERN
TUCOM-CA
NYITCOM
Touro-NY
PCOM
CUSOM
For MD schools you could try these:
UIC
SIU
Rosalind Franklin
Loyola
Rush
Medical College Wisconsin
Western Michigan
Oakland Beaumont
Creighton
TCU-UNT
NOVA MD
Wake Forest
Virginia Commonwealth
Eastern Virginia
George Washington
Drexel
Temple
Penn State
Jefferson
Hackensack
New York Medical College
Albany
Vermont
Quinnipiac

 

[Mr.Smile12]

I think if you find a strong mission fit, you have a shot at some MD schools. Certainly some good networking with DO schools will also help. I suppose I am wondering if you have asked any admissions professionals for suggestions on what to do after giving your story and transcript.

Describe the Americorps position and your specific role.

 

[candbgirl]

Besides your GPAS there is nothing in your ECs that stand out. Don’t mention wanting to be a Family Med or Primary care because you haven’t shadowed one. ADCOMS will ask how does he know. As @Goro said , if you don’t live in Southern Illinois, specifically south of I80 don’t apply to SIU. Iwouldnt apply to Rush either. They expect and get hundreds if not thousands of service hours from their applicants. You don’t come close to what they are looking for.
Why are you not applying to DO schools? Your stats are good for DO. But if it’s because you really don’t want DO just tell us that . Someone people don’t and that’s okay.

 

[hachiuma2000]

I don't have much contact with DO, so I "thought" it would look disingenuous if I were to apply DO. Another advisor also told me that, given the heavy research hours and lack of DO contact, DO schools would look at my app and assume I was gunning for MD but settling for DO due to the GPA. The MCAT is also out of range for many of their schools. That would make them less likely to be receptive to my app.

In terms of the Americorps-affiliated position- I was ultimately a counselor in the school, working on all aspects of the students' college applications (making sure the school reached a quota of 90% of all seniors sending out at least one application), setting up FAFSA for students, taking them on college tours, etc. It was paid but horribly so given the Americorps affiliation. It was a great experience and something I wanted to touch upon in my PS- I still have some of these students reaching out to me to this day.

I'm 26- so a lot of my ECs after graduation were not me trying to "check boxes" for med school, but rather, just me trying to work and figure out my next steps. I worked in the research lab for 1.5 years because I started thinking I was better suited for a PhD when in reality, that just wasn't the case.

 

[hachiuma2000]

That is about an extra semester’s worth of classes on top of what you have now. It is not a lot extra to show you are a different student, given you still have a 3.35.

Your last shadowing was 4 years ago. The hours with the home health nurse don't belong there either. I would suggest shadowing different specialities. You have a research heavy app, with the majority of you clinical experience also being in that area. The Americorps affiliated position hopefully helps your very low non-clinical hours, but what was your involvement?

I will be taking classes using the quarter system. Assuming I take 2 classes per quarter (summer, fall, winter, spring), those 8 new post-bacc classes will bring my sGPA up to a 3.39. I need to be realistic too- 2 classes is doable with a full-time job and part-time work (the tutoring). I'm 26 and have bills so unfortunately I don't see myself dropping work anytime soon, besides, it gives me clinical hours (which are so necessary for me).

The CRC position- yes, it's associated with research, but I see patients associated with an infectious disease daily and I'm close enough to "smell the patient" (which apparently is significant for clinical activity) and I'm independently taking measurements, running lung tests, getting medical release forms, scouring Epic, interviewing, listing meds, etc. That's all stuff I had to be trained in. I'm also building a strong rapport with a lot of the study participants who, again, are also patients associated with the university hospital. I'm not sitting at my desk all day plugging numbers in or yelling at the IRB.

 

[hachiuma2000]

I think if you find a strong mission fit, you have a shot at some MD schools. Certainly some good networking with DO schools will also help. I suppose I am wondering if you have asked any admissions professionals for suggestions on what to do after giving your story and transcript.

Describe the Americorps position and your specific role.

I have, and the responses are as varied as the ones here. Goro's response honestly seems the most middle of the road to me...not too optimistic, not too pessimistic. Take another year off, take some classes to get post-bacc up to 24 credit hours, some more shadowing, etc. One advisor told me to forget about med school for now, and to get a masters- thinking that MAYBE med schools will consider the masters (they will but that won't change the undergrad sGPA). Also, if I wanted a masters, I wouldn't be applying to med school- that's a whole process in itself!

Another advisor told me to apply this year given the upward trend, ECs/work experience and MCAT. Another advisor (from my undergrad institution) told me the same, and to start writing my PS and secondaries. I'm sure you can appreciate my confusion! Unfortunately, it's all my doing. I chose a UG that was a bit too competitive for my style of learning and that really hampered my success freshman year.

 

[chilly_md]

DO schools will not usually practice resource protection. They can offer interviews and acceptances faster than MD and will see the disparity between your MCAT and GPA as a reason for you applying. So, they will see you are a candidate for one of the high MCAT students that ultimately matriculate to DO schools. The ones Faha listed have the highest averages.

It would be a good idea to read about the history and philosophy of osteopathic medicine.

 

[hachiuma2000]

That is about an extra semester’s worth of classes on top of what you have now. It is not a lot extra to show you are a different student, given you still have a 3.35.

Your last shadowing was 4 years ago. The hours with the home health nurse don't belong there either. I would suggest shadowing different specialities. You have a research heavy app, with the majority of you clinical experience also being in that area. The Americorps affiliated position hopefully helps your very low non-clinical hours, but what was your involvement?

That's about 2 BCPM classes a quarter (summer, fall, winter, spring), assuming As (which I'll be getting even if I have to donate my firstborn). I'll have a total of 24-30 post-bacc BCPM hours in total (the range is me being realistic in terms of being able to get into classes given scheduling conflicts). That seems reasonable, idk. I don't think my sGPA will move past 3.39 by May 2023. Oof. The cGPA will probably be at 3.5. Hopefully, the MCAT and the fact I've been out of school for a while, along with the upward trend from freshman year, will help. I'm not going to throw my hands in the air at this point, it's not over. You're also right about the shadowing- COVID definitely made shadowing harder but I'll start cold calling a bit more and I'll see if I can also shadow my clinical director as well.

 

[hachiuma2000]

Besides your GPAS there is nothing in your ECs that stand out. Don’t mention wanting to be a Family Med or Primary care because you haven’t shadowed one. ADCOMS will ask how does he know. As @Goro said , if you don’t live in Southern Illinois, specifically south of I80 don’t apply to SIU. Iwouldnt apply to Rush either. They expect and get hundreds if not thousands of service hours from their applicants. You don’t come close to what they are looking for.
Why are you not applying to DO schools? Your stats are good for DO. But if it’s because you really don’t want DO just tell us that . Someone people don’t and that’s okay.

Yeah, most of my clinical hours are paid...which seems to be ok for some schools and not ok for others.

 

[candbgirl]

Yeah, most of my clinical hours are paid...which seems to be ok for some schools and not ok for others.

I’m pretty sure clinical hours can be either. But if they are paid you need to be especially aware of the nonclinical volunteering. Medicine is a service profession and you have to show ADCOMS that you are open to working with and dealing with the disadvantages and people at their very worst. You have to show your altruism to the unserved/underserved in the community.

 

[hachiuma2000]

I’m pretty sure clinical hours can be either. But if they are paid you need to be especially aware of the nonclinical volunteering. Medicine is a service profession and you have to show ADCOMS that you are open to working with and dealing with the disadvantages and people at their very worst. You have to show your altruism to the unserved/underserved in the community.

Definitely- I'm keeping up with the crisis text line over the next few years, even during med school. If I were to apply in 2023, I'd have well over 200 hours there. More importantly, I enjoy crisis hotline volunteering despite how draining it can be (emotionally). Overall, it's looking like this may not be my year for MD, so I'm scheduling about 6-8 courses to take over the coming year. Hopefully, I'll get the sGPA to a 3.35-3.40 w/ 24-29 post-bacc credits. I'll check back in, in 2023. Thanks all!

 

[hachiuma2000]

I am a re-applicant from 2019. Back then, I applied with a 3.15 sGPA but much fewer clinical hours and a 512. I applied to 20 schools, and I plan on including most of those on my list for this year. I am not sure of what DOs to include on my list, so I'd like some help with that. My GPA is a little better after a 24 credit hour post-bacc (at a 4.00) but not really in the green zone and I am working with a 520 MCAT from Sep 2021.

• Ties to other States/Regions: Family in California, worked for a UC
• State/Country of Residence: IL
• URM? (Y/N): No
• Year in School: Graduated 2018 from T10
• Undergraduate Major(s)/Minor(s): Biology
• Graduate Degrees (if applicable): N/A
• Cumulative GPA: ~3.50 cGPA (2.81 -> 3.25 -> 3.73 -> 3.64, with a 4.00 post bacc)
• Science GPA: ~3.33 (2.48 -> 2.70 -> 3.43 -> 3.58, with a 4.00 post bacc at 24 credit hours). I took 2 post bacc courses this year, each Summer, Fall, Winter, and Spring term (quarter system here). All upper-level science.
• MCAT Score(s): 520 (130/132/128/130)
• Research Experience: 1280 hours in undergrad orgo lab. 2400 hours as a full time research assistant position at a UC med school (research was biochem focused).
• Publications/Abstracts/Posters: I’m on two manuscripts from the research assistant position, but, not published atm, so they don't do me much good. My PI from this job will write me a letter of rec. Was awarded an undergrad research grant for a project in 2017.
• Clinical Experience (paid): Currently a CRC, very patient-facing (physical assessments, interviews, consenting, etc). By May, I will have 2000 hours in this position. The clinical director (MD) is also writing me a letter of rec.
• Clinical Experience (volunteer): 100 hours of nursing home volunteering in 2017-2018.
• Physician Shadowing: 30 hours of shadowing an anesthesiologist in 2018, plus 35 hours of home health nurse shadowing in 2018. I currently work under a team of MDs but finding more shadowing (given COVID and Telehealth) is hard atm.
• Non-Clinical Volunteering: Around 30 hours as a crisis counselor. Hopefully will increase this to 50 or more hours by mid-May. Around 100 hours volunteering at a group home for teenage girls (I wasn’t in direct contact with the residents so I wouldn’t count this as clinical volunteering). Around 100 hours (by May) volunteering with refugees from Ukraine/Afghanistan, helping with English skills and just getting settled in the US.
• Other Employment History: Currently work as a tutor (approximately 12 hours a week) with high school kids. I'd say I'll a total of 400 hours as a tutor by May. Worked as an advisor for disadvantaged kids through an Americorps affiliated position (paid) for one year after graduation (around 1200 hours).
• Immediate family members in medicine? (Y/N): Mom's a nurse practitioner- other than that, no.
• Specialty of Interest (if applicable): Family medicine, anesthesiology, internal medicine
• Interest in Primary Care (Y/N): Yes
• Interest in Rural Health (Y/N): Not really?
• Medical School List:
• Rush
• MCW
• UW Madison
• Loyola
• Tulane
• NYMC
• Rosalind Franklin
• Drexel
• Geisinger
• Wake Forest
• Tulane
• Quinnipiac
• Virginia Tech
• Virginia Commonwealth
• Creighton
• Albany Medical college
• SIU
• UIC
• TCU
• Tufts
• Dartmouth
• Loma Linda
• University of Vermont

 

[chilly_md]

I am a re-applicant from 2019. Back then, I applied with a 3.15 sGPA but much fewer clinical hours and a 512. I applied to 20 schools, and I plan on including most of those on my list for this year. I am not sure of what DOs to include on my list, so I'd like some help with that. My GPA is a little better after a 24 credit hour post-bacc (at a 4.00) but not really in the green zone and I am working with a 520 MCAT from Sep 2021.

I am merging your threads. Refer to Faha's list that was provided earlier,

As was already said before, get some more recent shadowing. Around 20 hours with someone in primary care to get you over 50 total would be good. Do not put down home health nurse shadowing, the category is meant to be for shadowing a physician. Try to get to 150 hours for your volunteer work with refugees. You will have all of May as well and can drop the tutoring job if that is limiting your flexibility. You have a deficiency in this area considering you did not get to the 200 hours of crisis counselor work like you thought you would have.

 

[USN2MD]

Worked as an advisor for disadvantaged kids through an Americorps affiliated position (paid) for one year after graduation (around 1200 hours).

Think you need to clarify this a bit. Were you an employee and got paid a regular hourly wage (aka minimum wage at least) or were you an Americorps member and got paid a stipend.

 

[hachiuma2000]

Think you need to clarify this a bit. Were you an employee and got paid a regular hourly wage (aka minimum wage at least) or were you an Americorps member and got paid a stipend.

I think the former applies.

 

[Mr.Smile12]

Places like Rush and Loyola generally like to see applicants with non-clinical community service hours near 1000 IMO. Your refugee assistance work definitely goes into this bucket; I would want more details on your shelter work, but it also could fall into this category too. Americorps work also goes here. So I think that puts you at 300 hours??? I'd still apply to them because you are in-state, but I'd check about whether this is enough for what they see in their pools.

 

[hachiuma2000]

Places like Rush and Loyola generally like to see applicants with non-clinical community service hours near 1000 IMO. Your refugee assistance work definitely goes into this bucket; I would want more details on your shelter work, but it also could fall into this category too. Americorps work also goes here. So I think that puts you at 300 hours??? I'd still apply to them because you are in-state, but I'd check about whether this is enough for what they see in their pools.

The Americorps position was paid (min wage, of course) but I do think it may count for some non-clinical outreach. Not necessarily volunteering. I do need to get some more shadowing hours but ultimately the tutoring job is not something I can reduce at the moment (circumstantial reasons).

 

[LeaveNoTrace]

I’d put some MD schools on the list that like reinvention…while ideally we’d like to see 30 credit hours for a DIY postbacc 24 is almost there and the 4.0 is nothing to sneeze at. Apply to Columbia and Dartmouth; you might get lucky. You’re a strong DO candidate and a half-decent MD candidate…you can talk fairly convincingly about being young and immature and adcoms won’t be worried about your academic chops. Good luck.

 

[hachiuma2000]

I’d put some MD schools on the list that like reinvention…while ideally we’d like to see 30 credit hours for a DIY postbacc 24 is almost there and the 4.0 is nothing to sneeze at. Apply to Columbia and Dartmouth; you might get lucky. You’re a strong DO candidate and a half-decent MD candidate…you can talk fairly convincingly about being young and immature and adcoms won’t be worried about your academic chops. Good luck.

I have another quarter (this spring) to take 2 more classes along with working full time, but I've basically expended all my course options (unless I want to retake classes). I'd also like more time to focus on essays and whatnot, and 2 more classes (at 2.7 credit hours each) will only move the sGPA up to a 3.35. I believe my DO AACOM sGPA is a bit higher because it doesn't include math courses and I tanked a calc class during the start of Freshman year.