Bad shift trades

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Brigade4Radiant

Brigade4Radiant

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How do you guys handle a colleague asking for a bad shift swap? Like them asking what you’re doing for the holiday and them being like ,“well if you have no plans can we swap your week dayshift for my holiday weekend shift so I can do so and so with my family.”

Usually this comes from the same one or two people always asking for an unequal shift swaps.

I used to do it but now unless it’s a reall family emergency I don’t bother since when the shoe is on the other foot the favor isn’t returned.
 
Brigade4Radiant said:
How do you guys handle a colleague asking for a bad shift swap? Like them asking what you’re doing for the holiday and them being like ,“well if you have no plans can we swap your week dayshift for my holiday weekend shift so I can do so and so with my family.”

Usually this comes from the same one or two people always asking for an unequal shift swaps.

I used to do it but now unless it’s a reall family emergency I don’t bother since when the shoe is on the other foot the favor isn’t returned.
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I just tell them flat out NO because it is an uneven trade. I used to do this when I was married but without kids for those with families and the expectation was that they would reciprocate. SURPRISE! They never did because it was inconvenient for them every time. I stopped picking up shifts because of this and will only do so if they swap for an equal shift OR pay to pick it up.
 
Just say you have plans. You don't have to elaborate. Married people with kids are always the ones that take advantage of this and abuse the single/childless physicians.
 
Fox800 said:
Just say you have plans. You don't have to elaborate. Married people with kids are always the ones that take advantage of this and abuse the single/childless physicians.
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Yeeeep. Not my problem if you decided to have kids. I want the holidays/weekends off too.
 
skougess said:
Yeeeep. Not my problem if you decided to have kids. I want the holidays/weekends off too.
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Yeah I don’t like when they try to guilt me about missing their child’s event. Honestly it’s only the moms who do this routinely. The dads will just ask if you can work their shift which is fair.

The moms will ask me to work a Thanksgiving weekend for some weekday shifts that I work prn in that shop.
 
Brigade4Radiant said:
How do you guys handle a colleague asking for a bad shift swap? Like them asking what you’re doing for the holiday and them being like ,“well if you have no plans can we swap your week dayshift for my holiday weekend shift so I can do so and so with my family.”

Usually this comes from the same one or two people always asking for an unequal shift swaps.

I used to do it but now unless it’s a reall family emergency I don’t bother since when the shoe is on the other foot the favor isn’t returned.
Click to expand...

drives me nuts. If I need a shift picked up, I always offer a trade for someone’s equal or worse shift. Like, I need a weekday swing shift covered, I’ll offer to pick up a Friday swing shift or night shift in return. I need a weekend day shift covered, I’ll offer to pick up a weekend day or swing shift in return, etc.

when people come to me and are like “Hey, can you pick up my Friday overnight? I’ll work that Tuesday 6a-2p of yours in return”, I’ll just say sorry, I’ve got plans. Whether I have actual plans or not, one of my plans was certainly not working a f—-ing overnight that Friday in exchange for that coveted Tuesday morning off. Either you need the shift covered or you don’t. Offering something meaningful in return proves it.

There’s always a few people at every shop who operate this way, and surprise surprise, they can never help you out after you’ve helped them out multiple times.
 
Depends on the person. Every group has had people I would accept even bad trades from because I knew they would do the same. Every group also had the person always needed a trade but was also always busy when you ask them to trade. I don’t have a problem just saying “I can’t”.
 
I stopped having any emotion about this when a coresident asked me to work two hours of his shift so he could go to x event, then when I later asked him to cover two hours of my shift for y event he said “oh we never agreed to that.” Was pissed, but I ain’t a narc.

Later he asked me to cover a call shift (as in first call to ed when intern or whoever calls off” because he *had* to go to some interview and had no child care.” Looked at schedule, and shocker, he had no rotations after that one where he could cover my call except Christmas (we weren’t eligible for call in icu).

I told him I was happy to cover his call if he covered mine on Christmas. Turned out he really needed that interview, and he also worked Christmas due to flu in an off service intern. Karma is a b*tch and no one likes a cheat.

Tldr: if it’s clearly uneven, say “no” without emotion, or explanation. It’s a complete sentence. If asked to elaborate say “it doesn’t work for me”

There are some folks I’ll still go out of the way to help. But only if I trust em
 
Also if we’re on the topic of schedules, if you put out a request to the group to cover your blank shift because you have blank and make zero effort to research a reasonable trade or method to sweeten deal (I’ll cover a night for a day, weekend for weekday, etc) on short notice you can pound sand.
 
if everyone is an adult about this, it should never be a problem.

My approach to life is everyone gets one benefit of the doubt/freebie from me that also translates to shift work.

If you are nice to me, if you traded shifts we me in the past, then I (AND my wife) will bend over backwards to trade. I will almost always trade with someone even if I pick up a bad shift once. But when I ask to switch and it seems like they are "always too busy" then I would not trade even if I had nothing to do.

This is like everything in life. Treat people well and they will bend over backwards for you. Treat people poorly, then you will be marked.

I always try to live on the "short end of the stick" so people would never accuse me of being a user. So help me out, and I will switch stuff all around my personal life to help you cover a shift. Don't cry wolf and ask for trades every month bc then you are just trading to make your life easier without realizing you are making someone's life harder.
 
I really don't think that much about trades. People are free to ask me and I'm either interested in trading...or not. I don't even think about whether I'm hurting anyone's feelings by not taking it. The way I see it...if someone is paying adequate attention to their schedule, placing requests on time, then they really shouldn't need to be making regular trades in the first place unless it's a real emergency or you've got a terrible scheduler.

That being said, there always seems to be a person in the group that people take advantage of through excessive trading along with one person who abuses the system by requesting excessive trades. Avoid dealing with both of them.
 
Brigade4Radiant said:
Yeah I don’t like when they try to guilt me about missing their child’s event. Honestly it’s only the moms who do this routinely. The dads will just ask if you can work their shift which is fair.

The moms will ask me to work a Thanksgiving weekend for some weekday shifts that I work prn in that shop.
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If they try to guilt me about it I just tell them I’ve missed plenty of events in my kids’ lives and that it builds character for them.
 
emergentmd said:
if everyone is an adult about this, it should never be a problem.

My approach to life is everyone gets one benefit of the doubt/freebie from me that also translates to shift work.

If you are nice to me, if you traded shifts we me in the past, then I (AND my wife) will bend over backwards to trade. I will almost always trade with someone even if I pick up a bad shift once. But when I ask to switch and it seems like they are "always too busy" then I would not trade even if I had nothing to do.

This is like everything in life. Treat people well and they will bend over backwards for you. Treat people poorly, then you will be marked.

I always try to live on the "short end of the stick" so people would never accuse me of being a user. So help me out, and I will switch stuff all around my personal life to help you cover a shift. Don't cry wolf and ask for trades every month bc then you are just trading to make your life easier without realizing you are making someone's life harder.
Click to expand...

This is my approach too. It has served me well. I have a great group where we all help each other out. It rarely takes us more than 48 hours to get a week of someone's shifts filled, including nights/weekends. Someone needs help? We all step up as able & the need gets filled VOLUNTARILY.

OK, almost all - there's one guy who I've never seen step up & help out. If he requests a swap I'll take it if it's helpful to me. Otherwise, I reply "Sorry, that trade doesn't work for me."

People who expect an explanation for why you can't do them a favor are presumptuous. Do not expect them to return said favor.
 
Dakota said:
There are a few options:

1) Refuse
2) Agree to the swap but simultaneously agree to a second swap - one of your bad shifts for one of their better ones.
3) Agree to take the shift but no trades - you get the shift and get their pay for the shift.

Having said that my group is amazing about covering one another.
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#3 is almost always my approach.
 
Yeah, that's some bull****. We all know at this point which shifts are "good" and which shifts are "bad." We are ER physicians, they should know that means working nights, weekends, holidays, etc. Family or not.

If the shift is not an "equal trade" (i.e. someone trying to "sneak" a saturday night shift for your tuesday shift), they should acknowledge that and there needs to be some equalizer (future trade, negotiated trade, etc.)

If they aren't willing to do that, I just say "I can't do that" or "I am unavailable to work at that time" with no further qualifiers. This is like anything else in life, you get to a point where you simply say "no" without additional explanation, as those explanations simply invite counter-argument or rationalization.
 
There are only 3 people that I take trade requests from with no questions asked and that's the medical director, assistant director, scheduler. I just consider that to be good for job security and hopefully invites additional considerations for my own schedule in the future.

I almost never will trade with people though. If it's not too crappy an offer, I will offer to take the shift for extra money but not for trade. That may be why I don't get asked as much anymore...
 
Dakota said:
The idea is you just take the shift. You don’t give up one of your own. It turns into an extra shift for you but also extra $.
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I usually just give up shifts rather than trade. If I really need a day off for something, then I'll take the financial hit and it's easier. I can usually make it up by taking someone else's shift later on.
 
GeneralVeers said:
I usually just give up shifts rather than trade. If I really need a day off for something, then I'll take the financial hit and it's easier. I can usually make it up by taking someone else's shift later on.
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Which often is how it should be I know every physician is busy but just because you’re busy does not mean I should be guilty to work a holiday in exchange for weekday shift
 
GeneralVeers said:
I usually just give up shifts rather than trade. If I really need a day off for something, then I'll take the financial hit and it's easier. I can usually make it up by taking someone else's shift later on.
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As a younger doc, I usually pick up all my senior colleagues shifts for no trade because I can always use the hours.
 
Restart13 said:
As a younger doc, I usually pick up all my senior colleagues shifts for no trade because I can always use the hours.
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Agreed. I'll pick up a weekend shift if I have nothing going on. Need the extra $$$ at this point.

I picked up X-mas this year just because I was bored and had nothing else to do.
 
GeneralVeers said:
Agreed. I'll pick up a weekend shift if I have nothing going on. Need the extra $$$ at this point.

I picked up X-mas this year just because I was bored and had nothing else to do.
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How do you need extra $$$ at this point?

I thought you were swimming in it like Scrooge McDuck!
 
Other day one of the residents from another program in our city attempted, with a straight face to tell me I needed to come in 4 hours early (work an overnight 12 instead of an overnight 8) so she could catch a flight. She’s at our shop for a month representing her program. Told her hard no.

The day in question comes and she just straight up walked off the shift 4 hours early. Didnt tell anyone, didn’t sign out her patients, just leaves and turns off her phone.

Had to call in one of our other residents who was on sick call to come cover.
 
The Knife & Gun Club said:
Other day one of the residents from another program in our city attempted, with a straight face to tell me I needed to come in 4 hours early (work an overnight 12 instead of an overnight 8) so she could catch a flight. She’s at our shop for a month representing her program. Told her hard no.

The day in question comes and she just straight up walked off the shift 4 hours early. Didnt tell anyone, didn’t sign out her patients, just leaves and turns off her phone.

Had to call in one of our other residents who was on sick call to come cover.
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I hope she didn't get credit for that shift, and, also, dinged for professionalism and pt abandonment (ie, the book thrown at her).
 
The Knife & Gun Club said:
Other day one of the residents from another program in our city attempted, with a straight face to tell me I needed to come in 4 hours early (work an overnight 12 instead of an overnight 8) so she could catch a flight. She’s at our shop for a month representing her program. Told her hard no.

The day in question comes and she just straight up walked off the shift 4 hours early. Didnt tell anyone, didn’t sign out her patients, just leaves and turns off her phone.

Had to call in one of our other residents who was on sick call to come cover.
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If I'm in charge, that's immediate termination.
 
The Knife & Gun Club said:
Other day one of the residents from another program in our city attempted, with a straight face to tell me I needed to come in 4 hours early (work an overnight 12 instead of an overnight 8) so she could catch a flight. She’s at our shop for a month representing her program. Told her hard no.

The day in question comes and she just straight up walked off the shift 4 hours early. Didnt tell anyone, didn’t sign out her patients, just leaves and turns off her phone.

Had to call in one of our other residents who was on sick call to come cover.
Click to expand...

Yeah that’s pretty much inexcusable. She would’ve been better off just not coming to work
 
The Knife & Gun Club said:
Other day one of the residents from another program in our city attempted, with a straight face to tell me I needed to come in 4 hours early (work an overnight 12 instead of an overnight 8) so she could catch a flight. She’s at our shop for a month representing her program. Told her hard no.

The day in question comes and she just straight up walked off the shift 4 hours early. Didnt tell anyone, didn’t sign out her patients, just leaves and turns off her phone.

Had to call in one of our other residents who was on sick call to come cover.
Click to expand...
Totally wrong of her but that’s an alpha move...
 
Brigade4Radiant said:
How do you guys handle a colleague asking for a bad shift swap? Like them asking what you’re doing for the holiday and them being like ,“well if you have no plans can we swap your week dayshift for my holiday weekend shift so I can do so and so with my family.”

Usually this comes from the same one or two people always asking for an unequal shift swaps.

I used to do it but now unless it’s a reall family emergency I don’t bother since when the shoe is on the other foot the favor isn’t returned.
Click to expand...

I don't accept it. They are ER docs and they have to work their fair share of nights and weekends and holidays too. Unless you have a different arrangement.
 
Way too complicated. After 6 months, everyone knows who cries wolf and who really needs coverage. Someone who never asks and gives me a good reason, I will switch if I can regardless if its not an even trade. Someone who asks all the time would be a hard no unless it a favorable switch.

I am at the point now where I am happy to give up shifts. I typically just ask someone who is not working to take my shift and if they don't need extra work, I will switch.
 
I put people in three groups when they ask for trades
1. The people I know who will help me even when it is disadvantages them. Those I will help out even if I really don't want to.
2. People that only make fair trades - I will return the exact favor to them - fair shift for fair shift.
3. Those people who I know never help out - I will only trade with them if it very much advantages me.

I have no problem saying "sorry, can't, have plans" and never one person actually asks what those plans are - they are definitely in group #3 and has burnt so many bridges with people nobody will help her anymore unless it is a trade in their favor.

After 15 years in the same place, you very quickly find out what bucket people fit in.
 
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