Bad Ugr GPA, but want to take post-bacc...pointless?

[CAW]

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I graduated in 2008 with a BS in chemistry/biochemistry and a minor in biology. My overall GPA was 2.97 and my science GPA was an embarrasing 2.65 (both by AADSAS calculation)👎. The reason for my low GPA was lack of direction and consequent apathy towards my coursework.

However, now that I am greatly interested in dentistry (my story of inspiration aside), I feel like all hope may be lost for getting into dental school.

I took the DAT and my scores were:

PAT: 19
Quant: 20
RC 23
Bio: 21
Gen Chem: 22
Orgo: 20
Total Sci: 21
Ac. Avg: 21

👍

Now, I'm considering a post-bacc program somewhere and have been eying up Harvard Extension School, SFSU, UPenn, and some others (in that order).

I'm concerned that even with some sort of post-bacc experience (whether it is formal, informal, CERT, or M.A.) I won't be a competitive applicant.

I am confident in my ability to get B's or greater (which most schools require for sponsorship) and generally expect to get A-'s at least wherever I would go for a post-bacc program.

I have nearly 100 hours of shadowing, a lot of volunteer work, have done biochemical research, and have a solid personal statement and good LOE's.

Are my oGPA and sGPA that bad that I will still have a hard time getting into schools even after doing a post-bacc program? I've also heard that in general, anything less than A's in a post-bacc is pointless...that makes me squirm a little...true?

A few schools that I'm interested in:

Temple
Pitt
Arizona
UC San Fran
USC
Univ. of the Pacific
UMD New Jersey

(Clearly, geography isn't a limiting factor)

I'm in this for the long haul and I am determined to get in, so any advice or perspective would be greatly appreciated. 🙂

 

[oriJINal]

In my opinion, you have no chance this cycle. Your way below average for gpa and some schools might reject you automatically due to not meeting cutoff gpa's. You definately need to boost those gpa's to at least above 3.0, especially the sGPA because schools look this the most.

p.s. are you URM? because if you are, you have a chance this cycle. Just apply right now.

 

[HannaBanana]

you need to talk to the schools you're interested in to see what else you can do to strengthen your app. as for the post-bacc, get A's.

 

[CAW]

@oriJINal: I've pretty much abandoned the idea of getting in during this cycle, but I haven't given up on dental school altogether. I'm confident that I can mend my o-/s-GPA to above a 3.0 with a post-bacc program.

@HannaBanana: I'm going to call the schools on monday and try to talk to the admissions people, application and transcript in hand, and see what I can do to become a competitive applicant.

While we're at it, let's talk about DAT cut-offs. I took my DAT in 2009. Some schools say 2 years, some say 3. Now, does that mean that my score (let's say for a school with a 3 year cut-off) would be valid if I applied during 2011 for the class of 2016 (beginning 2012)? What about for 2012 application cycle for the class of 2017?

Also, is there difference between a master's, formal post-bacc, or informal post-bacc as far as effect on my competitiveness?

Thanks for all the help guys, I'm trying to get my life in order here and any advice you can give me is appreciated.

 

[lnngu]

.

 

[4thMolar]

I also think you should apply next cycle after you enroll in a post-bacc/masters program. You can call the schools up you want for information on your application and what they think your chances are, but they won't be able to tell you right then and there most likely. Ask if you can schedule a phone consultation with a member of the admissions committee and send them your application information.

When in 2009 did you take your DAT? I noticed you want to apply to Temple, and I know they take DAT scores that are only 2 years old. If you took it before August 2009, then you'll have to re-take the DAT if you apply next cycle. They do not start the review process until September, and your scores would be no good (I know this b/c i talked to them and they told me this...which is why I did not re-apply there).

There is a difference btw post-bacc and masters. If you take more post-bacc courses, it would only add to your undergrad GPA, and it would not raise your GPA significantly. If you enroll in a masters program, a whole new graduate GPA will be calculated on AADSAS, and I believe dental schools would look more favorably on a graduate program, especially an SMP (where you take courses that mimic the first year of dental school).

 

[amali]

I was in a very similar position to you last cycle with around the same GPA. I finished up my post bac with 18 semester units this May. I did well with about a 3.6 in the program, but I had so many units from undergrad that my science GPA barely went up. I talked to someone at UOP and she said the post bac will be looked at more so than your undergraduate GPA. Your DAT scores are good with 20's in almost every section.

 

[Kobebucsfan]

WOW those are pretty good DAT scores, how did u do so well but get below 3.0 Gpa ??

how did u study for DAT?




my science GPA is like 3.26 but i got 2 more semesters to bring it up, but i am scared about the DAT. Chemistry and ochem are my weak points.

 

[CAW]

@Kobebucsfan: I had such a bad GPA because I didn't like the major I was in and didn't care what I got. I had no idea I would end up wanting to apply to dental school or else I would have had a much better GPA.

Also, while a decent number of people take degrees in something easier and take only the dental pre-reqs and nail them, I was a chemistry/biochemistry major with a minor in biology (not the easiest Ugr path) and so my GPA is a result of a lot of harder science classes.

I'm a bright guy, I was just uninspired in college and now I'm paying for it...wish I had known I wanted to go to dental school then 🙁

Anyway, good luck in all you do!

 

[goldylocks00123]

I recently found myself in the same situation as you. Look into the IMS program from Drexel university... its a Special Masters program designed for students who need a GPA boost. You basically take 1st year medical/dental classes. It doesnt matter if you do a formal/informal post back as long as you talk to a counsler about the upper division classes you need to take and MAKE SURE TO GET As only in your classes. Dont give up on dental schools... your DAT scores are great.

 

[PreDentinator]

I just finished up a post bac program myself. It is true, it barely raised my GPA even with a 4.0. But, I would still definitely do a post bac over a masters. Dental schools nowadays consider masters course grades inflated! so they don't look as highly upon them. With the post bac courses you will be put back in the mix with other students in undergrad... usually on curved systems and such, and you have to compete on that level. Dental schools like to see these grades better. That is just what the admissions offices have told me. I advise you check yourself, but considering I was in a post bac program for two of the schools you mentioned I would go the PB route. GL!

 

[lnngu]

I just finished up a post bac program myself. It is true, it barely raised my GPA even with a 4.0. But, I would still definitely do a post bac over a masters. Dental schools nowadays consider masters course grades inflated! so they don't look as highly upon them. With the post bac courses you will be put back in the mix with other students in undergrad... usually on curved systems and such, and you have to compete on that level. Dental schools like to see these grades better. That is just what the admissions offices have told me. I advise you check yourself, but considering I was in a post bac program for two of the schools you mentioned I would go the PB route. GL!

Weird, this must be school dependent, because I've heard the exact opposite from the schools I've talked to.

 

[4thMolar]

I just finished up a post bac program myself. It is true, it barely raised my GPA even with a 4.0. But, I would still definitely do a post bac over a masters. Dental schools nowadays consider masters course grades inflated! so they don't look as highly upon them. With the post bac courses you will be put back in the mix with other students in undergrad... usually on curved systems and such, and you have to compete on that level. Dental schools like to see these grades better. That is just what the admissions offices have told me. I advise you check yourself, but considering I was in a post bac program for two of the schools you mentioned I would go the PB route. GL!

I agree with Inngu, I have never heard of a school suggesting a post-bacc over a Masters, but I guess the type of program you go into is dependent on your GPA. If your GPA is just a little below average, a simple post-bacc program would be more beneficial, rather than enrolling in a masters program. Every school I talked with in the past recommended doing a masters so where exactly did you hear that graduate level courses and programs have grade inflation?? That is simply not true.

 

[yappy]

I suggest during your covo with the schools admin you talk about your options of post bacc vs masters... maybe even ask if they know of a prefered one for their program. (maybe students in the past have gone to a post bac and performed well and dental school?)

To the above poster. You mentioned post bac for students who are boarderline... What would you suggest to a student with a 3.3c 3.4sci with 20/20 dat - post bac/masters?

 

[shiftypoptart]

the problem with having a low undergrad GPA is that although you can improve you chances of getting with a post bach, certain schools have a cut off GPA of around 2.75 that will automatically reject you even if you get a 4.0 in the masters program. You're just gunna have to make sure or call into the school that they will at least consider you before you apply.

 

[4thMolar]

I suggest during your covo with the schools admin you talk about your options of post bacc vs masters... maybe even ask if they know of a prefered one for their program. (maybe students in the past have gone to a post bac and performed well and dental school?)

To the above poster. You mentioned post bac for students who are boarderline... What would you suggest to a student with a 3.3c 3.4sci with 20/20 dat - post bac/masters?

I would suggest with those stats that the student just take more upper-level science courses as a non-degree seeking student, as those are stats that are around average for dental school admission (a little below for GPA). It's not even necessary to enroll in a formal post-bacc and I would not consider doing a masters program. Masters programs can be very expensive, and I think SMPs are more geared to those who are on the lower end of the spectrum. Also, I believe some post-bacc programs are for those non-traditional students who have not taken the pre-reqs or have been out of school for a while. Another thing is that dental schools may wait for you to complete a graduate program before they bother considering your application (UMDNJ for example). But that being said, I'm not saying you should never try to enroll in a Masters, any type of academic program will help you.

 

[CAW]

Alright, so let's say that I ace a masters or post-bacc program, with my above mentioned stats, what are my chances of getting into dental school (assuming I don't apply to ones that will automatically reject me for not being URM, my undergrad GPA, or being OOS unfriendly)?

I'm starting to feel like this is a hopeless endeavor...

 

[4thMolar]

Alright, so let's say that I ace a masters or post-bacc program, with my above mentioned stats, what are my chances of getting into dental school (assuming I don't apply to ones that will automatically reject me for not being URM, my undergrad GPA, or being OOS unfriendly)?

I'm starting to feel like this is a hopeless endeavor...

If you do enroll and complete a Masters program with at least a 3.7, I would say your chances would be pretty good. I just finished a Masters, so I won't be able to tell you how beneficial it was until later on this cycle (after I get interviews/acceptances hopefully). I did speak with many dental schools a couple of months ago, and they ALL said I was a much more competitive applicant due to my M.S. degree (which was in Biology), and they all said it was the proper route to take to enhance my chances.

 

[PreDentinator]

I know someone who got into one of the top 5 dental schools (not to mention the name) who had a 4.0 in a PB program but an overall GPA of 2.4. He got in. He said he had to explain his extreme lack of focus and not showing up to class is why his GPA was horrible. He worked a lot apparently as well. He was not a URM if that is what you are thinking. So you can do it. Have faith my friend! But i guess everyone hears different things whether a masters or PB. Better to call each school.

 

[CAW]

@PreDent: Where did he do his postbacc?

I've been looking for some good schools to do a post-bacc at, but am not 100% on where I should go. Sounds like that one was a good decision!

 

[Destiny11]

the problem with having a low undergrad GPA is that although you can improve you chances of getting with a post bach, certain schools have a cut off GPA of around 2.75 that will automatically reject you even if you get a 4.0 in the masters program. You're just gunna have to make sure or call into the school that they will at least consider you before you apply.

Usually the GPA cutoff they look at is the combined GPA with undergrad and graduate grades. Also be aware that some school's science GPA cutoff is actually your BCP GPA...such as MWU-AZ.