Bad Ugrad - Good Grad

[CalGreenESQ]

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Hi guys,

Can you tell me what you think my chances of getting into medical school are. Not particularly interested in ivy league schools. I am applying as a minority.

Ugrad was a 2.9, but I received a B.S. in Biology and a B.A. in Psychology. I worked for three years in a Biochem-Micro lab and worked two jobs. No debt! Quite a few extracurriculars - clinic experience, Ronald McNair Fellow, few conference presentations on my researcg.

Grad is currently a 3.8 and I am getting a M.S. in Microbiology. For about a year, I have been shadowing a M.D. who is the Head of the Infectious Disease Department at University of Tennessee-Hospital and both the hospital and Knoxville Health Department (Aids and TB clinic). I am also shadowing two D.O.s at the Family Physicians clinic at the same hospital.

Right now I am getting 27-30 on my practice MCATs and I am sure I will have strong letters of recommendation. I am also taking classes I believe will strengthen my application. For example, I got a C+ in Biochemistry 401 in ugrad, so I am now taking Biochemistry 512 (Advanced Molecular BIology of the Gene) in grad school and currently have an A.

What do you guys think? I appreciate all feedback and thank you for your help!

 

[GoSpursGo]

Unfortunately, the common wisdom is that med schools care much more about undergrad GPA than grad school. While your ECs are pretty good, unless you can bring that uGPA up significantly or do much better on the MCAT (think 33-35+), I don't think your chances are that good- though admittedly, as a minority, you might have a better chance than most.

 

[ksd1985]

Unfortunately, the common wisdom is that med schools care much more about undergrad GPA than grad school. While your ECs are pretty good, unless you can bring that uGPA up significantly or do much better on the MCAT (think 33-35+), I don't think your chances are that good- though admittedly, as a minority, you might have a better chance than most.

I'm in a very similar situation, and let me tell you what I've learned. Although it might be "common wisdom" that schools only care about your undergrad GPA, its actually not correct. I have a lower undergrad GPA as well (3.2), and I was told something very different from doctors who sit on different Medical Board Advisory Committees. They told me that although I could retake undergraduate classes, MD schools do not average scores from classes you didn't excel in (although DO schools do, so retaking undergraduate classes might be the way to go if you're applying to DO's). They told me that if you can show them that you can excel at a graduate level, they will believe you can excel in Medical school as well. Right now, I have a 4.0 in grad school, which might not erase my undergrad GPA, but it does partially make up for it.

Another thought is to make sure you get around a 30 or above on the MCAT's, to show that you know the material. Also, an idea would be to improve you EC's. Although research always looks good, you can never have enough volunteer experience. It shows the medical school that you are an overall good person, and that you are in this world to serve other people (it's what this profession is all about, and often people get so caught up in the numbers they forget about that).

Best of luck to you!

 

[GoSpursGo]

I'm in a very similar situation, and let me tell you what I've learned. Although it might be "common wisdom" that schools only care about your undergrad GPA, its actually not correct. I have a lower undergrad GPA as well (3.2), and I was told something very different from doctors who sit on different Medical Board Advisory Committees. They told me that although I could retake undergraduate classes, MD schools do not average scores from classes you didn't excel in (although DO schools do, so retaking undergraduate classes might be the way to go if you're applying to DO's). They told me that if you can show them that you can excel at a graduate level, they will believe you can excel in Medical school as well. Right now, I have a 4.0 in grad school, which might not erase my undergrad GPA, but it does partially make up for it.

Another thought is to make sure you get around a 30 or above on the MCAT's, to show that you know the material. Also, an idea would be to improve you EC's. Although research always looks good, you can never have enough volunteer experience. It shows the medical school that you are an overall good person, and that you are in this world to serve other people (it's what this profession is all about, and often people get so caught up in the numbers they forget about that).

Best of luck to you!

I wasn't suggesting re-taking undergrad courses, I was saying take more upper-division classes to raise that GPA. In that way, taking some sort of post-bacc classes might be better than going for a masters that you have no intention of using.

 

[CalGreenESQ]

Thanks for the feedback guys.

I had considered doing an informal post-bac; however, that requires money. Joining the M.S. program, I received a fellowship and I have the opportunity to publish papers on research I started as an ugrad. Plus the teaching experience is beneficial, I think. Since it is only a two year program, I felt these bonuses far outweighed the sacrifice of being a little older when applying for med school. And a M.S. degree in microbiology would certainly help in med school, especially if planning for a career in infectious disease as I am.

As for taking more upper-division classes, since I graduated with so many quality points (due to the dual degrees), it would have been nearly impossible for me to raise my ugrad GPA to a satisfactory one, don't you think?

 

[airca12]

They told me that although I could retake undergraduate classes, MD schools do not average scores from classes you didn't excel in (although DO schools do, so retaking undergraduate classes might be the way to go if you're applying to DO's).

What do you mean by "classes you didn't excel in?"

I've read that DO schools replace the grades for classes you retake, MD schools do not. They average them. Which is to say that they count both of the grades.

If you take Chem 101 and get a C, then retake and get an A....

DO schools only add the A to your gpa calculation.

MD schools add the C and A to your gpa calculation, thus averaging them. You do end up raising your GPA by retaking a course and getting a higher grade. But you could raise your GPA similarly by taking ANY course and getting an A (cGPA and sGPA distinctions notwithstanding). It has the same effect.

 

[Montserrat]

I wasn't suggesting re-taking undergrad courses, I was saying take more upper-division classes to raise that GPA. In that way, taking some sort of post-bacc classes might be better than going for a masters that you have no intention of using.

Just to note - I'm not a med student. But among those who are classmates in a number of didactic courses, a number of them had Masters degrees, and this was their take.

Many schools offer masters programs where you essentially take medical school or dental school classes, (sans the larger lab sessions) while giving the student the distinct honor of being graded on their curve. It's entirely useful - if one is using it to show a level of competence in courses of comparable difficulty (and no, orgo is not on the level of Medical Physiology or Medical Anatomy.) On the flip side, tanking Graduate Medical courses can simultaneously tank your chances of being admitted to medical school if you perform poorly. If you go that route though, you'd better make sure you drop A's consistently. When you're graded on the curve with a bunch of medical/dental students though, it's easier said than done. That's why I would think it's fairly good indicator of ability and drive.

 

[GoSpursGo]

Just to note - I'm not a med student. But among those who are classmates in a number of didactic courses, a number of them had Masters degrees, and this was their take.

Many schools offer masters programs where you essentially take medical school or dental school classes, (sans the larger lab sessions) while giving the student the distinct honor of being graded on their curve. It's entirely useful - if one is using it to show a level of competence in courses of comparable difficulty (and no, orgo is not on the level of Medical Physiology or Medical Anatomy.) On the flip side, tanking Graduate Medical courses can simultaneously tank your chances of being admitted to medical school if you perform poorly. If you go that route though, you'd better make sure you drop A's consistently. When you're graded on the curve with a bunch of medical/dental students though, it's easier said than done. That's why I would think it's fairly good indicator of ability and drive.

Right, this is called a Special Masters Program. It's definitely high-risk/high-reward; do well, and you probably get in the following year, but do even a LITTLE worse than great, and you're probably done all together. That's why a post-bacc is appealing because it carries a much lower risk since you're probably not going to be on the curve anymore.

Both courses of action have their pluses and minuses.

 

[Moebius]

Don't listen to the people who are putting you down. If you have a passionate reason and the financial resources to continue, it would be wise to pursue your dreams.

 

[72531]

I am also in a similar situation. I did about the same as you in undergrad majoring in Microbiology (Orgo & Physics courses mostly messed me up) but now with an M.S. I am doing a lot better. I also would like to be an infectious diseases doctor 🙁

 

[rom73085]

I think you have a great shot. Do well on your MCAT, write a good personal statement, express your passion and knowledge for medicine during your interviews and I think you're golden. Comparing what you've done with others that I've read about and known, I think you have a pretty decent shot. Good luck and don't ever give up.