Balancing Life and Work

[drboris]

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Hey Guys,

I will be an M2 next month and am interested in EM. Since everyone who is going into EM keeps telling me that the hours are very good, I want to know why you guys claim the lifestyle is so good? From what I have been reading, ER shifts always change and most people do not usually work just day shifts. So even if you work only 40hrs a week, how can your schedule be good when you work mostly evenings (1pm-11pm for example) or nights? In this case, you won't be home when the rest of the world, including your family, is home. So how is that a good lifestyle? What's the point of being home during the day by yourself, but working when everyone else is home?

This really bothers me about EM. I really like EM and want to learn more about different schedule scenarios because I can't see myself doing this type of shiftwork. What do you guys think?

Thanks

 

[NinerNiner999]

Just as your night/day schedule changes, so does your frequency of each. 1/3 of your shifts will be nights, but you will probably only do 12-14 total shifts per month (meaning really only 4-5 "nights" per month). The 12 hour shift is going the way of the dodo, with most shifts being only 8 hours long with most groups.

So let me summarize: 3 - 4 shifts per week, 8 hours each, 1/3 nights, no beeper. Compare that to any other field with call and office hours (5 days/week of 8-10 office hours/day, plus 24-hour call nights thrown in the mix). Oh yeah - You also get paged.

In EM When you are home, you're home. No call, no unpredictability. and 18 days off per month. I'm sorry - how does this whole "not seeing anyone" thing work?

 

[roja]

erm. What he said.


And sometimes being home alone is really really nice.

 

[MS05']

erm. What he said.


And sometimes being home alone is really really nice.

especially in the middle of the night, when you're wide awake at 4am, watching the news reruns and playing playstation while the rest of the world sleeps....I love it!

 

[drboris]

If 8hr shifts are becoming more common, then that would mean 18-20 shifts per month. So that's 6-7 night shifts, meaning 1-2 nights per week.

Are there any scenarios are there where you can work mostly day shifts??

 

[sunnyjohn]

Just as your night/day schedule changes, so does your frequency of each. 1/3 of your shifts will be nights, but you will probably only do 12-14 total shifts per month (meaning really only 4-5 "nights" per month). The 12 hour shift is going the way of the dodo, with most shifts being only 8 hours long with most groups.

So let me summarize: 3 - 4 shifts per week, 8 hours each, 1/3 nights, no beeper. Compare that to any other field with call and office hours (5 days/week of 8-10 office hours/day, plus 24-hour call nights thrown in the mix). Oh yeah - You also get paged.

In EM When you are home, you're home. No call, no unpredictability. and 18 days off per month. I'm sorry - how does this whole "not seeing anyone" thing work?

This sounds like heaven.

 

[roja]

If 8hr shifts are becoming more common, then that would mean 18-20 shifts per month. So that's 6-7 night shifts, meaning 1-2 nights per week.

Are there any scenarios are there where you can work mostly day shifts??

Most EP's don't work 40 hr a week.

 

[ERMudPhud]

If 8hr shifts are becoming more common, then that would mean 18-20 shifts per month. So that's 6-7 night shifts, meaning 1-2 nights per week.

Are there any scenarios are there where you can work mostly day shifts??

Most people in my group only work 10-15 shifts per month. You could work more but there is more to life than money. And 1/3 of the shifts aren't nights. Our shifts look a bit like this 6a-3p 7:30-3:30 10-6 1:30-10:30(x2) 3-11:30 6p-2a 9p-3a 10:30p-7a. So only 1/9 is a true overnight but it is heavily weighted towards evening shifts 5/9. Many in the group are big into outdoors stuff so they like the evenings because then the can spend much of the day hiking, biking, skiing, golfing, etc... It gets even better when you have people in the group like me who request 4-6 weekend night shifts per month.

Purely 9-5? Not likely to happen.

 

[USCDiver]

Let's say you have a family, working wife and kids in school. You work a night shift (11p to 7a). You come home at 7am, see your wife and kids for breakfast, they go off to work/school. You go to sleep. You wake up and pick the kids up at school. Play with them all afternoon, wife comes home from work and you've got dinner on the table. You spend the evening with quality family time. Kids go to sleep, you and the wife have some private time. She goes to sleep. You go back to work.

How is that 'not seeing anyone?'.

 

[emtji]

Let's say you have a family, working wife and kids in school. You work a night shift (11p to 7a). You come home at 7am, see your wife and kids for breakfast, they go off to work/school. You go to sleep. You wake up and pick the kids up at school. Play with them all afternoon, wife comes home from work and you've got dinner on the table. You spend the evening with quality family time. Kids go to sleep, you and the wife have some private time. She goes to sleep. You go back to work.

How is that 'not seeing anyone?'.

sex life??? falling asleep in your lover's arms?

 

[NinerNiner999]

If 8hr shifts are becoming more common, then that would mean 18-20 shifts per month. So that's 6-7 night shifts, meaning 1-2 nights per week.

Are there any scenarios are there where you can work mostly day shifts??

What do you mean 18-20 shifts per month? I do that as a resident. Attendings work 12-14 8 HOUR SHIFTS per month. That's it. As Roja said - Most EPs don't work 40 hours a week - they work less.

 

[USCDiver]

sex life??? falling asleep in your lover's arms?

I said 'private time' and it's not like you do this 6 nights a week. Maybe twice a week or three times if you're new to the group.

Are there any scenarios where you can work mostly day shifts?

You have to realise that EM practices are very varying in the way they are set up, how much coverage their departments have and who gets what schedule. You may have to work a disproportionate number of nights or weekends your first year or so after residency, but the longer you're with a group the more say you have in which shifts you want to work.

And if you absolutely don't want to work any night shifts or something, you can try to get that put into your contract, but good luck finding a group that's going to hire you. And you can expect to make significantly less money than those that work the less desirable shifts.

 

[drboris]

Thanks Guys!

 

[drboris]

Just one more quick question. If attendings only work 12-14 8hr shifts per month (that is about 110hrs per month), then how is the average salary 200-220k? I thought that ER docs were paid on avg $100/hr. If that is the case, the working 110hrs per month will get you ~135k. Am I missing something? Is the hourly rate higher, are there bonuses, etc? I would be perfectly content only working 12-14 shifts a month, I just want to make more than 135k.

Thanks

 

[ERMudPhud]

Just one more quick question. If attendings only work 12-14 8hr shifts per month (that is about 110hrs per month), then how is the average salary 200-220k? I thought that ER docs were paid on avg $100/hr. If that is the case, the working 110hrs per month will get you ~135k. Am I missing something? Is the hourly rate higher, are there bonuses, etc? I would be perfectly content only working 12-14 shifts a month, I just want to make more than 135k.

Thanks

The hourly rate is quite a bit to a hell of a lot higher depending on where you work

 

[sunnyjohn]

What do you mean 18-20 shifts per month? I do that as a resident. Attendings work 12-14 8 HOUR SHIFTS per month. That's it. As Roja said - Most EPs don't work 40 hours a week - they work less.

Do you work 12 hours shifts as a resident?

So say 20*12=240 hours a month?

Mostly nights and weekends?



You EP's must realize you have a sweet racket going on.

 

[NinerNiner999]

Do you work 12 hours shifts as a resident?

So say 20*12=240 hours a month?

Mostly nights and weekends?



You EP's must realize you have a sweet racket going on.

No, no no - we mostly work 8 hour shifts, with 12's on the weekends 😉
Second years get one three-day weekend per month (plus 7-8 other days off) and third years get 2 three-day weekends a month (plus 6-7 other days off). 1/3 of shifts are nights.

I wouldn't call it a racket, I would call it efficient patient care 😛

In response to Boris' question about salary, using $120 as a rough starting hourly rate (out of residency), and working 36 hours/week for a year, lets see:

36 hours X $120 x 4 weeks x 12 months = $207,360 before benefits, retirement, CME, and (of course) making partner. Oh yeah - that's after malpractice

 

[sunnyjohn]

No, no no - we mostly work 8 hour shifts, with 12's on the weekends 😉
Second years get one three-day weekend per month (plus 7-8 other days off) and third years get 2 three-day weekends a month (plus 6-7 other days off). 1/3 of shifts are nights.

I wouldn't call it a racket, I would call it efficient patient care 😛

In response to Boris' question about salary, using $120 as a rough starting hourly rate (out of residency), and working 36 hours/week for a year, lets see:

36 hours X $120 x 4 weeks x 12 months = $207,360 before benefits, retirement, CME, and (of course) making partner. Oh yeah - that's after malpractice

So 6 days a week 5-8 hours and one 12 hour; would that be a better estimate? Anywhere from 160-210 hours a month?

Still sound like a good deal for 3 or 4 years.

Listen, I must ask you guys a favor. Do you think you could keep this pay scale and hours worked for EP's under raps until I am able to join you?
😀

 

[dchristismi]

Remember that each program is different. At my program, we work 20 12s a month. (But conveniently have most of our vacation weeks during EM months, so it's only 16 12s those months.) 🙂