Becoming an alternative, holistic MD

[manaha]

Hey there,
I was wondering if anyone had suggestions as to what the most successful route in order to become a natural, holistic doctor would be. I am extremely interested in naturopathy, and I would definitely want to become an ND if it weren't for the bad rep and poor credibility that they get. So, I was considering getting my MD and then my ND, but I was wondering if there were any simpler ways to go about that. Is an ND necessary to practice holistic medicine, or could I just sort of assert my self as one? I want to use pharmaceuticals as a last resort. I was thinking about maybe specializing in some sort of alternative medicine, but, mainly, there is not a form that is widely accepted and that would put my MD to good use.

I'm totally new to all of this, and just looking for some options. Any help/ideas/suggestions would be greatly appreciated! Thanks!

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[gettheleadout]

I want to use pharmaceuticals as a last resort.

Why?

 

[hubriz]

Hey there,
I was wondering if anyone had suggestions as to what the most successful route in order to become a natural, holistic doctor would be. I am extremely interested in naturopathy, and I would definitely want to become an ND if it weren't for the bad rep and poor credibility that they get. So, I was considering getting my MD and then my ND, but I was wondering if there were any simpler ways to go about that. Is an ND necessary to practice holistic medicine, or could I just sort of assert my self as one? I want to use pharmaceuticals as a last resort. I was thinking about maybe specializing in some sort of alternative medicine, but, mainly, there is not a form that is widely accepted and that would put my MD to good use.

I'm totally new to all of this, and just looking for some options. Any help/ideas/sugge
stions would be greatly appreciated! Thanks!

Very cool. I'd start here: http://www.mayo.edu/research/centers-programs/complementary-integrative-medicine

 

[manaha]

Why?

I grew up with lots of natural medicines, home remedies, chiropractic work, and apple cider vinegar. I just prefer the simpler, more natural route if at all possible. I do, however, understand that there are things which should be treated with pharmaceuticals, hence my desire to become an MD whilst still keeping my roots in alternative medicine.

 

[manaha]

Very cool. I'd start here: http://www.mayo.edu/research/centers-programs/complementary-integrative-medicine

Wonderful! Thanks so much!

 

[Mt Kilimanjaro]

I know of a few family medicine doctors who did a fellowship like this one (this seems to be the most well known) and then opened some sort of cash-only integrative medicine practice: http://integrativemedicine.arizona.edu/ I believe there's some threads about that in the FM forum.

NIH has a center for this sort of research. Would be cool to get involved with that if possible: http://nccam.nih.gov/

I don't know much about what ND is, but I'd definitely not do that if you want to keep your career options open. I think you have to decide how committed you are to evidence-based Western medicine before you choose your path. For example, if you think vaccinations are a bad idea, an MD is not the route for you.

 

[Winged Scapula]

There's a ton of it out here in addition to the naturopaths. Here's but one example: http://integrativemedicine.arizona.edu/about/directors/weil

 

[Reckoner]

I am extremely interested in naturopathy, and I would definitely want to become an ND if it weren't for the bad rep and poor credibility that they get.

Then become a naturopath. There's a reason for that bad reputation, and using an MD to lend credibility to snake oil and voodoo magic strikes me as a bit disingenuous.

I don't know much about what ND is, but I'd definitely not do that if you want to keep your career options open. I think you have to decide how committed you are to evidence-based Western medicine before you choose your path. For example, if you think vaccinations are a bad idea, an MD is not the route for you.

Naturopathy, or naturopathic medicine, is a form of alternative medicine based on a belief in vitalism, which posits that a special energy called "vital energy" or "vital force" guides bodily processes such as metabolism, reproduction, growth, and adaptation. Naturopathy favors a holistic approach with non-invasive treatment and generally avoids the use of surgery and drugs. Practitioners of naturopathy often prefer methods of treatment that are not compatible withevidence-based medicine, and in doing so, reject the tenets of biomedicine and modern science. Naturopathic medicine is replete with pseudoscientific, ineffective, unethical, and possibly dangerous practices.

 

[WingedOx]

I'm curious, OP, as to what your desired specialty is. I also question your perceived need to be trained in CAM to be "holistic," but that's a whole different thread (or is it?).

While making no endorsement in support of, or against his opinions, you may find the writings/blog of Paul Ingraham interesting.

Still, any MD in a primary care setting should have a basic knowledge of what CAM involves. There's nothing better than having your diabetic patient tell you she's about to start a two week "cleanse."

 

[m1021]

Have you thought about DO? In a way, it may be a middle ground between the two.

 

[Psai]

I am very alternative and holistic

 

[Winged Scapula]

My observations about these statements of interest in CAM are:

1) the failure to recognize that medications have made life better; people died from easily treatable infections, DKA, CAD and suffered great pain without anesthesia and narcotics;

2) the failure to recognize that many medications come from natural ingredients (Paclitaxel from the Pacific yew, aspirin from willow bark, digitalis from foxglove and of course, our old friend the opium poppy)

3) the assumption that its the physicians who are the ones pushing the medications; patients are the ones asking for antibiotics for viral illnesses and other inappropriate medication uses

4) the assumption that something compounded and non-FDA approved is somehow better than something "made in a lab"

5) the belief that physicians don't try or recommend other treatments first

 

[manaha]

My observations about these statements of interest in CAM are:

1) the failure to recognize that medications have made life better; people died from easily treatable infections, DKA, CAD and suffered great pain without anesthesia and narcotics;

2) the failure to recognize that many medications come from natural ingredients (Paclitaxel from the Pacific yew, aspirin from willow bark, digitalis from foxglove and of course, our old friend the opium poppy)

3) the assumption that its the physicians who are the ones pushing the medications; patients are the ones asking for antibiotics for viral illnesses and other inappropriate medication uses

4) the assumption that something compounded and non-FDA approved is somehow better than something "made in a lab"

5) the belief that physicians don't try or recommend other treatments first

Woah woah woah, no such presumptions have been made. I'm not quiet sure as to where you are gathering these observations from, as I haven't said much on the topic, and I specified my acknowledgment of times of imperative pharmaceutical need. I'm only exploring my options! I don't mean to be offensive. Thanks for the help, y'all!

 

[manaha]

Have you thought about DO? In a way, it may be a middle ground between the two.

Yes, I have, but I am not sure that I necessarily believe wholeheartedly in the premises of osteopathy. I definitely contemplated it for a while, but my heart wasn't in it.

 

[Reckoner]

Yes, I have, but I am not sure that I necessarily believe wholeheartedly in the premises of osteopathy. I definitely contemplated it for a while, but my heart wasn't in it.

...but you believe wholeheartedly in naturopathy?

 

[Winged Scapula]

Woah woah woah, no such presumptions have been made. I'm not quiet sure as to where you are gathering these observations from, as I haven't said much on the topic, and I specified my acknowledgment of times of imperative pharmaceutical need. I'm only exploring my options! I don't mean to be offensive. Thanks for the help, y'all!

I don't recall specifically stating that was the case with *you* but rather a common observation. I am not personally offended because I am confident and secure in my self and my practice of medicine.

 

[SouthernSurgeon]

Have you thought about DO? In a way, it may be a middle ground between the two.

Ugh no.

 

[Ismet]

Yes, I have, but I am not sure that I necessarily believe wholeheartedly in the premises of osteopathy. I definitely contemplated it for a while, but my heart wasn't in it.

Lol what.

This:

...but you believe wholeheartedly in naturopathy?

 

[pkwraith]

I take issue with the fact that the very first statement of the OP starts off by implying that MDs are not holistic (and natural), demonstrating a poor understanding of the word and the field of medicine.

Most people would realize that common sense dictates that you do not start criticizing people (MDs don't care about the social and mental factors of health and illness) when you are trying to ask them for their help. So, this seems to be purposely obtuse and combative.

 

[loltopsy]

I take issue with the fact that the very first statement of the OP starts off by implying that MDs are not holistic (and natural), demonstrating a poor understanding of the word and the field of medicine.

Most people would realize that common sense dictates that you do not start criticizing people (MDs don't care about the social and mental factors of health and illness) when you are trying to ask them for their help. So, this seems to be purposely obtuse and combative.

DO schools do the same BS. "Oh we are holistic, we heal every part of the patient unlike MDs." Then they make a schpeel about how MD=DO, and then with a straight face say you need to shadow a DO, not an MD, to be considered for admission. Which is it? Are you the same or are you different?

I don't have an issue with DOs, just the BS pushed by the schools.

As for OP, if you don't want to write scripts for actual medicine, go to ND school. You'll have a comfortable home there. If you want to help people who have more serious illnesses than 'vague sense of discomfort', then go to a real medical school.

 

[nOchemallday]

Hey there,
I was wondering if anyone had suggestions as to what the most successful route in order to become a natural, holistic doctor would be. I am extremely interested in naturopathy, and I would definitely want to become an ND if it weren't for the bad rep and poor credibility that they get. So, I was considering getting my MD and then my ND, but I was wondering if there were any simpler ways to go about that. Is an ND necessary to practice holistic medicine, or could I just sort of assert my self as one? I want to use pharmaceuticals as a last resort. I was thinking about maybe specializing in some sort of alternative medicine, but, mainly, there is not a form that is widely accepted and that would put my MD to good use.

I'm totally new to all of this, and just looking for some options. Any help/ideas/suggestions would be greatly appreciated! Thanks!

I feel like it has already been addressed, but OP: you can simply become an M.D. and practice medicine with a focus on holistic medicine. You could even be a D.O. and practice holistic medicine (and in my own personal experience I have found this to be more often the case). The majority of holistic doctors I have personally met are D.O.'s rather than M.D.'s and of them most practice homeopathic rather than naturopathic medicine.

After the first few productive comments OP just started taking heat left and right. I read it as legitimate naivete about holistic M.D.'s, but apparenly others took it as a direct attack against all of Western Medicine.

 

[manaha]

I take issue with the fact that the very first statement of the OP starts off by implying that MDs are not holistic (and natural), demonstrating a poor understanding of the word and the field of medicine.

Most people would realize that common sense dictates that you do not start criticizing people (MDs don't care about the social and mental factors of health and illness) when you are trying to ask them for their help. So, this seems to be purposely obtuse and combative.

You are correct about my lack of extreme knowledge in the field. I'm brand new to it, and since I had questions, I came here to inquire. I apologize for appearing purposefully obtuse and combative, though I do not feel that I ever criticized anyone. Those things were not my intentions. I am just merely trying to sort a few questions out, and really do appreciate the helpful advice I have received.

 

[manaha]

I feel like it has already been addressed, but OP: you can simply become an M.D. and practice medicine with a focus on holistic medicine. You could even be a D.O. and practice holistic medicine (and in my own personal experience I have found this to be more often the case). The majority of holistic doctors I have personally met are D.O.'s rather than M.D.'s and of them most practice homeopathic rather than naturopathic medicine.

After the first few productive comments OP just started taking heat left and right. I read it as legitimate naivete about holistic M.D.'s, but apparenly others took it as a direct attack against all of Western Medicine.

This is exactly what I was wondering. Thank you so much!

 

[Perrotfish]

nvm

 

[NickNaylor]

If you have an interest in doing CAM medicine, then do a CAM fellowship after you finish residency. You can also tap that entrepreneurial spirit and start a niche practice that focuses on the things you want to focus on. As an example, one of the faculty in our FM department started and runs a "food-based" clinic; she believes very strongly that dietary intake has a huge impact on one's general health and systemic disease, so she makes it a point to emphasize those things in her practice. That's not to say that she refuses to prescribe convention medications. But, prior to doing that, she takes a much longer and more in-depth look at a patient's diet, correlates that with dietary research that she specifically keeps up on, and tries to suggest dietary changes to improve health that are backed by evidence.

The great thing about medicine is that you can carve yourself out a niche practice doing whatever you want to do if you're creative and persistent. I'd echo the sentiments about ensuring that medical school is actually what you want to do, but should you decide to go that route, don't think that you couldn't incorporate CAM-like principles into your practice. You'll just have to be more creative and go off the beaten path if you want to pursue it more intensely than most physicians would. Depending upon the environment you want to practice in, there's definitely an audience for this sort of thing that I think would be more than happy to see you specifically for this reason over more "traditional" (for lack of a better word) physicians.

 

[QofQuimica]

I take issue with the fact that the very first statement of the OP starts off by implying that MDs are not holistic (and natural), demonstrating a poor understanding of the word and the field of medicine.

This.

And along with what WS said above, coming from a pharmaceutical chemistry background, I have to laugh every time I hear the notion that "natural" equals "safe." The most toxic, dangerous chemicals known to man are natural products like ricin and botulinum toxin. And the chemical that kills the most people every year is good old H2O. (For those of you who have never seen it, this "public service announcement" is a classic: http://www.dhmo.org/facts.html)

OP, the only way to become a doctor is to go to medical school. If you go to medical school, you will be trained extensively in modern Western medicine, which tends to be reductionist and values science over CAM. That's because when people have studied CAM rigorously, it usually fails to deliver on its promises. The exceptions are herbal remedies and possibly acupuncture for pain disorders. That being said, there are also movements afoot to promote holistic wellness within allopathic medicine, and I think most physicians would agree with the idea that we need to treat the whole person and not just the disease. Translating that recognition into practice is difficult given our current economic incentives for spending less time counseling patients. Maybe that's something you can help out with when you finish your training.