being an investigator during residency

[ResidentMD]

While browsing this forum, and having interacted with a few residents, I have noticed that quite a few residents at University-affiliated community hospitals tend to become either co-investigators or if lucky, a principal investigator during residency. I assume this is mainly for clinical studies, unless someone is on an ABIM pathway (anyway rare in university-affiliated programs).

Hence, I was wondering, is it just that in academic centers and big universities, one doesnt get the time to do such significant research? Because the number of residents who I see getting grants and being co-investigators, are overwhelmingly from the traditionally "non-academic" programs.

Has anyone come across residents at academic powerhouses or universities who are able to get seed grants or become co-investigators or principle investigators during residency? (P.S. Excluding MD-PhD candidates)

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[jdh71]

While browsing this forum, and having interacted with a few residents, I have noticed that quite a few residents at University-affiliated community hospitals tend to become either co-investigators or if lucky, a principal investigator during residency. I assume this is mainly for clinical studies, unless someone is on an ABIM pathway (anyway rare in university-affiliated programs).

Hence, I was wondering, is it just that in academic centers and big universities, one doesnt get the time to do such significant research? Because the number of residents who I see getting grants and being co-investigators, are overwhelmingly from the traditionally "non-academic" programs.

Has anyone come across residents at academic powerhouses or universities who are able to get seed grants or become co-investigators or principle investigators during residency? (P.S. Excluding MD-PhD candidates)

I've found myself as co-investigator on my current project. It all kind of depends on your who you pick as research mentor, because you will be at their will and mercy . . . make sure you ask about the research mentors where you interview.

 

[ResidentMD]

I've found myself as co-investigator on my current project. It all kind of depends on your who you pick as research mentor, because you will be at their will and mercy . . . make sure you ask about the research mentors where you interview.

Great to have you back jdh..

so you bring up an interesting topic. In your opinion, is it more fruitful to choose a research mentor who heads a lab/research group, and has tons of grants, but may not have that much of a personal interaction with you, because he/she is touring the world(!) attending meetings and conferences, or to pair up with someone who just got an R01, is a part of a group of this particular bigwig, but will see you everyday, in and out?

This is purely keeping in mind one would want to pursue a career in academia and research.

 

[jdh71]

Great to have you back jdh..

so you bring up an interesting topic. In your opinion, is it more fruitful to choose a research mentor who heads a lab/research group, and has tons of grants, but may not have that much of a personal interaction with you, because he/she is touring the world(!) attending meetings and conferences, or to pair up with someone who just got an R01, is a part of a group of this particular bigwig, but will see you everyday, in and out?

This is purely keeping in mind one would want to pursue a career in academia and research.

Again it all depend on the mentor

 

[RxnMan]

Great to have you back jdh..

so you bring up an interesting topic. In your opinion, is it more fruitful to choose a research mentor who heads a lab/research group, and has tons of grants, but may not have that much of a personal interaction with you, because he/she is touring the world(!) attending meetings and conferences, or to pair up with someone who just got an R01, is a part of a group of this particular bigwig, but will see you everyday, in and out?

This is purely keeping in mind one would want to pursue a career in academia and research.

There are many threads discussing the importance of, and how to choose, mentors. You can look in the MD/PhD forum's stickies or search that forum for "mentors".

P.S. Everyone, from tenured prof to new attending, that I've asked about doing research in residency has said the same thing: residency is where you get your clinical skills, and you are there to learn the medicine, first and foremost. Research can come later.

 

[Ariee]

+1 on mentor, as per my IV's. I think the key to the question here is really, what are you trying to accomplish?

It seems as if tho you are a big research buff RMD, so perhaps your goals/objectives may be a bit different/superior to an average IM resident who just wants to publish to get a fellowship...I would think it would be more impt if you wish to be the academic/research guy, but not so for fellowships...Just my 0.02..

Did you check out the ABIM criteria for research? I think it's simply a QI project as set forth by the RRC...too lazy to check it out right now...

 

[ResidentMD]

+1 on mentor, as per my IV's. I think the key to the question here is really, what are you trying to accomplish?

It seems as if tho you are a big research buff RMD, so perhaps your goals/objectives may be a bit different/superior to an average IM resident who just wants to publish to get a fellowship...I would think it would be more impt if you wish to be the academic/research guy, but not so for fellowships...Just my 0.02..

Did you check out the ABIM criteria for research? I think it's simply a QI project as set forth by the RRC...too lazy to check it out right now...

Yes Ariee..you are right 😉. I also agree that residency is primarily for clinical training. But I sure would love to get some direction onto the path of becoming an independent investigator by working with someone during residency, if the opportunity is available 🙂

 

[RxnMan]

Yes Ariee..you are right 😉. I also agree that residency is primarily for clinical training. But I sure would love to get some direction onto the path of becoming an independent investigator by working with someone during residency, if the opportunity is available 🙂

ABIM pathway. MGH Clinical research program, UPitt's, UCSF's. You get the idea.

In choosing mentors, forget how neat the project is, how far you think the experience will propel your career, the grants - all that is garbage. I say this from my experience, as well as that of my colleagues'. The most important thing is fit. Do you work well with that person? Will they promote you (in LORs, introduce you to other scientists/clinicians, etc.)? Do they have your interests at heart? Will they help train you to think like a scientist?

A 'boring' project in a lab that supports you has many, many more possibilities than one that appears to be exciting at first blush, but is in an incompatible lab.

 

[Ariee]

ABIM pathway. MGH Clinical research program, UPitt's, UCSF's. You get the idea.

In choosing mentors, forget how neat the project is, how far you think the experience will propel your career, the grants - all that is garbage. I say this from my experience, as well as that of my colleagues'. The most important thing is fit. Do you work well with that person? Will they promote you (in LORs, introduce you to other scientists/clinicians, etc.)? Do they have your interests at heart? Will they help train you to think like a scientist?

A 'boring' project in a lab that supports you has many, many more possibilities than one that appears to be exciting at first blush, but is in an incompatible lab.

👍 Great post, thanks !

 

[QofQuimica]

ABIM pathway. MGH Clinical research program, UPitt's, UCSF's. You get the idea.

In choosing mentors, forget how neat the project is, how far you think the experience will propel your career, the grants - all that is garbage. I say this from my experience, as well as that of my colleagues'. The most important thing is fit. Do you work well with that person? Will they promote you (in LORs, introduce you to other scientists/clinicians, etc.)? Do they have your interests at heart? Will they help train you to think like a scientist?

A 'boring' project in a lab that supports you has many, many more possibilities than one that appears to be exciting at first blush, but is in an incompatible lab.

I know I'm a few weeks late to join this conversation, but I just wanted to agree with you, RxnMan. Also, it's nice to see how our Physician Scientist mentor thread discussions are now spilling into IM.

 

[Crazy Diamond]

P.S. Everyone, from tenured prof to new attending, that I've asked about doing research in residency has said the same thing: residency is where you get your clinical skills, and you are there to learn the medicine, first and foremost. Research can come later.[/QUOTE]


sounds logical...but tell fellwship program director about it ...you parctically can't land the fellowship of your dreams without research that's like a prereqisite

 

[RxnMan]

...sounds logical...but tell fellwship program director about it ...you parctically can't land the fellowship of your dreams without research that's like a prereqisite

Fair enough. I never allowed my work my research project to interfere with my med school education (classmates got to go to parties, I had data). During the next step, residency, I'm a clinician first, and do research as time allows. I don't think I could land any fellowship if I was a subpar clinician, no matter how many pubs I had.

 

[RxnMan]

I know I'm a few weeks late to join this conversation, but I just wanted to agree with you, RxnMan. Also, it's nice to see how our Physician Scientist mentor thread discussions are now spilling into IM.

Check the EM forum. I expect these discussions to continue as the current cohort of SDN-affiliated physician-scientists go through their respective training programs. 👍