Ben Chudner private practice question

This forum made possible through the generous support of
SDN members, donors, and sponsors. Thank you.

HOLLYWOOD

Senior Member
10+ Year Member
5+ Year Member
15+ Year Member
Joined
Nov 6, 2004
Messages
212
Reaction score
0
Ben how do you handle these situations?
1. EYE MED pt. comes in for REE & CLE . Pt. then tells you they have floaters. Do you bill both their medical insurance and EYE MED ?
2. Davis vision pt. comes in for REE. Pt. then tells you they have a Hx of retinal holes. You tell them that you will need their medical insurance. They tell you that dilation is covered by davis. What do you do? I have to go back to work.
Thanks for your help.
 
Ben how do you handle these situations?
Thanks for your help.
I am not an EYE MED or Davis provider so I am not sure if the following response will help. I am a VSP provider which I assume is similar to those plans, other than a slightly higher reimbursement, so I will answer your question as though the patients had VSP.
1. EYE MED pt. comes in for REE & CLE . Pt. then tells you they have floaters. Do you bill both their medical insurance and EYE MED ?
As soon as the patient mentions to my staff (or me) that they are experiencing floaters, the exam ceases to be routine. I would inform the patient that before they can have a routine exam, they need to have the cause of the floaters ruled out. For that, I will need to perform a medical examination of their eyes which will not be covered by VSP. It will, however, be covered by their medical insurance which my office will gladly bill for them. I would then perform a dilated exam without refraction. If there is a PVD, or any retinal findings that need to be documented, I would do so and bill extended ophthalmoscopy as well. Obviously, if I find anything that needs to be treated, they would be referred, but in the case of a PVD, I would have them back for another eval in 3 weeks. Most of the time I go ahead and perform their VSP exam at that time. I could technically perform another medical exam without refraction and then have them back a third time for their routine exam, but I typically don't, although I would not question anyone that did.
2. Davis vision pt. comes in for REE. Pt. then tells you they have a Hx of retinal holes. You tell them that you will need their medical insurance. They tell you that dilation is covered by davis. What do you do? I have to go back to work.
This situation is a little different. In the case of an established patient that I have already documented the retinal holes (I will assume they are asymptomatic atrophic holes), I would go ahead and just perform the VSP exam. I would already have billed extended ophthalmoscopy and since there is no reason to repeat for this condition unless there is a change, I cannot bill for it again. Technically I could bill a medical exam every time and have them back for the routine exam, however, eventually the patient would grow tired of comming in twice a year for a stable condition such as this and I think they would leave the practice. If this is a new patient, I would tell them that I would prefer to have a baseline medical exam to verify that they have retinal holes. This is a medical exam that is not covered by VSP but is covered by their medical insurance. I would then do the same as in number 1, including the extended ophthalmoscopy. For asymptomatic atrophic retinal holes, I would not see them back except for their routine exam at which time I would refract, but not dilate (as long as it was shortly after the medical exam).

By performing extended ophthalmoscopy in both examples, I am going above and beyond what would be covered by a routine vision plan. If the patient insisted I only billed VSP, they would be charged for the additional procedure. I have never had someone do that, but I would assume that once told they would be on the hook for the additional procedures, they would have no problem with my office billing their medical insurance.

I hope that helps.
 
My two cents, I do it exactly the same way.
 
Senior docs...

I'm a first year student, so forgive me if the answer to my question is obvious, but what exactly constitutes a medical exam as opposed to a routine exam? I worked in a private practice for a year before going to school, and as I'm learning new things I'm trying to go back and understand more about what was going on in the office. I'm trying to remember what a medical exam looked like. Does the presence of a refraction determine whether the exam is medical vs routine? Or, is a medical exam relatively equal to a routine exam, with the only difference being the diagnosis isn't a refractive one?

Thanks!
 
Senior docs...

I'm a first year student, so forgive me if the answer to my question is obvious, but what exactly constitutes a medical exam as opposed to a routine exam? I worked in a private practice for a year before going to school, and as I'm learning new things I'm trying to go back and understand more about what was going on in the office. I'm trying to remember what a medical exam looked like. Does the presence of a refraction determine whether the exam is medical vs routine? Or, is a medical exam relatively equal to a routine exam, with the only difference being the diagnosis isn't a refractive one?

Thanks!

A "medical" vs "routine" exam is determined by the chief complaint. That is...the reason that they came. If they came in and said that they are here to get their glasses checked, and as part of the history you determine that they have seasonal allergies the exam is still supposed to be considered routine because the CHIEF reason for them presenting is the checking of the glasses.

Further compounding this issue for optometry is the fact that if the chief complaint is "blurry vision" and you find a cataract, that would be a medical exam. However if the chief complaint was "blurry vision" and you found a half diopter increase in myopia, that would be "routine" because refractive diagnoses are rarely covered by medical plans. The performance of a refraction makes little difference in almost all cases because refraction is a non covered service under just about every medical plan out there.

Virtually every doctor out there leaves the chief complaint "open to interpretation" I've seen hundreds of times where a patient presents with the above scenario and the chief complaint suddenly changes from glasses to seasonal allergies. Ophthalmologists do this all the time. For example, a patient with a family history of mac degen might come in and say "get my eyes checked" (routine) but the chief complaint gets recorded as "patient concerned about macular degneration - positive family history" (medical.)


Does that clear it up? lol 😱
 
Thanks Ben. Do you take any other vision plans besides vsp? If you do or did when did you stop accepting them? I am thinking of dropping some vision plans. The problem that I have is that I have plenty of competion from ODs and MDs. BTW my practice is just over 4yrs. old.
Also what do you charge for a cl evaluation ? Ex. 1st. time pt. comes in wearing av-2. pt. is happy w/ the lens. You find .25 change. Everything else is wnl.
Thanks again
 
Clear as mud! 😉

I had forgotten about the chief complaint aspect. So essentially, the exams are the same, it is how you bill it and WHO you bill it to that matters?

Thanks KHE

We've already started to get it hammered home to us that you bill to medical if you can.
 
Thanks Ben. Do you take any other vision plans besides vsp? If you do or did when did you stop accepting them? I am thinking of dropping some vision plans. The problem that I have is that I have plenty of competion from ODs and MDs. BTW my practice is just over 4yrs. old.
Also what do you charge for a cl evaluation ? Ex. 1st. time pt. comes in wearing av-2. pt. is happy w/ the lens. You find .25 change. Everything else is wnl.
Thanks again
VSP is the only vision only plan that I take. I am very fortunate in that many of the medical plans in my area have routine vision. While I would prefer to bill medical, having the routine vision coverage keeps the patients comming in. Also, most medical plans that offer vision still pay much better than VSP for the routine exam, plus they pay a lot more for the refraction. About 7 years ago, my office dropped a plan called Northwest Benefits Network (NBN). It was a plan similar to VSP only the reimbursement was worse. Since we had a ton of patients with this insurance and every OD office in the county took it, we offered a 20% discount to NBN patients that still came to see us. We lost well over 80% of the patients, many of which had been comming to the office for over 10 years (just goes to show that loyalty is not exactly what we think it is). In the end, however, it was a smart financial move for the office because we actually lost money in the optical with the plan.

Our CL eval fee is a sliding scale. For the spherical, disposable CL wearer we charge $35 above the normal exam fee. This is for established wearers comming in for an annual exam as in your example. For disposable toric wearers we charge $45, spherical SiHy it's $55, toric SiHy it's $65, and multifocal it's $75. Just so you know, in your example I would probably not keep that patient in the AV2. I would recommend switching to a SiHy lens. In that case, there would be the $35 eval for their AV2, plus there would be a refit fee of $100 for the follow up involved with the new CL material.
 
A "medical" vs "routine" exam is determined by the chief complaint. That is...the reason that they came. If they came in and said that they are here to get their glasses checked, and as part of the history you determine that they have seasonal allergies the exam is still supposed to be considered routine because the CHIEF reason for them presenting is the checking of the glasses.

Further compounding this issue for optometry is the fact that if the chief complaint is "blurry vision" and you find a cataract, that would be a medical exam. However if the chief complaint was "blurry vision" and you found a half diopter increase in myopia, that would be "routine" because refractive diagnoses are rarely covered by medical plans. The performance of a refraction makes little difference in almost all cases because refraction is a non covered service under just about every medical plan out there.

Virtually every doctor out there leaves the chief complaint "open to interpretation" I've seen hundreds of times where a patient presents with the above scenario and the chief complaint suddenly changes from glasses to seasonal allergies. Ophthalmologists do this all the time. For example, a patient with a family history of mac degen might come in and say "get my eyes checked" (routine) but the chief complaint gets recorded as "patient concerned about macular degneration - positive family history" (medical.)


Does that clear it up? lol 😱


well put.
 
Thanks for your help Ben. I find that some pts. don't want to use their medical insurance b/c their co-pay can be as high as $50. Sometimes it's difficult to do what's best for the pt. and give good customer service (medical exam plus glasses and cls on the same day).
 
Thanks for your help Ben. I find that some pts. don't want to use their medical insurance b/c their co-pay can be as high as $50. Sometimes it's difficult to do what's best for the pt. and give good customer service (medical exam plus glasses and cls on the same day).
I don't think anyone can fault you for keeping your patients' best interest in mind.
 
Ben how do you handle these situations?
1. EYE MED pt. comes in for REE & CLE . Pt. then tells you they have floaters. Do you bill both their medical insurance and EYE MED ?
2. Davis vision pt. comes in for REE. Pt. then tells you they have a Hx of retinal holes. You tell them that you will need their medical insurance. They tell you that dilation is covered by davis. What do you do? I have to go back to work.
Thanks for your help.

Hollywood, We also bill very similar to how Ben does.

One thing you may want to be careful of is, billing their vision and medical insurances for the same date of service. Insurances look for double billing of services on the same day, and from what I understand, is difficult to defend if you’re audited. I know a person that was audited, and even though she was billing for additional service like threshold visual fields and pachymetry, was told she could not bill for these service on the same day, and should have only billed the medical not vision since there was a medical diagnosis. I think she had to payback what was paid to her with interest and a fine.😱
 
Hollywood, We also bill very similar to how Ben does.

One thing you may want to be careful of is, billing their vision and medical insurances for the same date of service. Insurances look for double billing of services on the same day, and from what I understand, is difficult to defend if you’re audited. I know a person that was audited, and even though she was billing for additional service like threshold visual fields and pachymetry, was told she could not bill for these service on the same day, and should have only billed the medical not vision since there was a medical diagnosis. I think she had to payback what was paid to her with interest and a fine.😱


yes, there are definitely very bizarre rules for same day services/procedures (especially with medicare)

I know there was some rule I always got confused in school where you can't do same day visual field and GDX/photos.
 
yes, there are definitely very bizarre rules for same day services/procedures (especially with medicare)

I know there was some rule I always got confused in school where you can't do same day visual field and GDX/photos.


This varies from region to region. I once worked in an area where you COULD bill visual fields and photos OR GDx on the same day BUT you could NOT bill GDx and photos on the same day.

😕
 
This varies from region to region. I once worked in an area where you COULD bill visual fields and photos OR GDx on the same day BUT you could NOT bill GDx and photos on the same day.

😕
When it comes to Medicare billing lectures, always verify the information with your local carrier as these differences show up a lot.
 
This varies from region to region. I once worked in an area where you COULD bill visual fields and photos OR GDx on the same day BUT you could NOT bill GDx and photos on the same day.

😕

Well, GDX and photos are both considered imaging.. so that at least makes sense.
 
Top