Best Course of Action?

[LegendaryPunk]

Looking for some honest advice as to my chances of getting into med school. Quick background info – graduated in 2006 with an English degree; GPA is c2.7 and s2.6. After college I spent a year teaching English in China. For the past three years I have held a mundane office job during the day, while volunteering as a FF / EMT during nights and weekends. I volunteer at two separate stations, and am the Treasurer at one station, and the Training Lt. at the other. I am currently enrolled in a paramedic program, which completes Dec this year. GPA in the paramedic program is 4.0.

When I became a volunteer FF / EMT, I had every intention of going career. Now that I am halfway through my paramedic program, I have decided that I want to become a physician. Obviously my biggest barrier is my undergrad GPA. Even if I take two years worth of pre-med classes, my cGPA will only rise to ~3.0 – 3.1. I only took a couple science courses as an undergrad, which makes me think I would be able to repair my sGPA to a somewhat respectable level.

I am pretty much willing to do whatever it takes, be it post-bacc programs, SMP or DO. Truth be told, I had never heard of the DO route before coming to this forum, and am still struggling to put aside any doubts of it “not being a real (i.e. MD) doctor.” At the end of the day though, my reasons for wanting to become a physician is that I want to learn as much about medicine as possible, and I want to use that knowledge help people. If I accomplish those two goals I know I shouldn’t care about what sort of alphabet follows my name.

Although I know this is a long-ways off, right now my long term interest lies in Emergency Medicine (medic background) or working abroad in 3rd world countries (which is where most of my childhood was spent due to parents being in the Peace Corps). In terms of these two fields, would MD vs. DO make much of a difference?

If I put in two years hard work (more if necessary), do I have a chance at getting accepted to either program?

Thanks!

GPA Info (updated 3/28):

Undergrad (complete): 120cr - cGPA 2.74 - sGPA 2.55
Paramedic (complete): 46cr - 4.0 GPA
Post-bacc (in progress): 54cr - 3.91 GPA
Total (projected for 5/1/13): 220cr - cGPA 3.29 - sGPA 3.61

---

Members don't see this ad.

 

[cliffhuxtableDO]

As of now you need to get involved in a post-bacc, whether it be formal or informal.

Formal would be a post-bacc program through a medical school or a university that is organized. Informal is just taking classes at a school on your own time to fulfill the pre-reqs.

After that you'll need to take the MCAT. Depending on your post-bacc and MCAT then you will need to reevaluate and decide whether or not to pursue an SMP, and or apply to medical school. MD or DO, won't matter in terms of matching into EM. Practicing in foreign countries gets sticky regardless of your initials.

Get to work on the post-bacc, keep doing your research on applying to schools, and get some clinical exposure (spend time with physicians). After all of that, come back and ask what your chances are in about 2 years. Good luck.

 

[Catalystik]

Looking for some honest advice as to my chances of getting into med school. Quick background info – graduated in 2006 with an English degree; GPA is c2.7 and s3.0. After college I spent a year teaching English in China. For the past three years I have held a mundane office job during the day, while volunteering as a FF / EMT during nights and weekends. I volunteer at two separate stations, and am the Treasurer at one station, and the Training Lt. at the other. I am currently enrolled in a paramedic program, which completes Dec this year. GPA in the paramedic program is 4.0.

When I became a volunteer FF / EMT, I had every intention of going career. Now that I am halfway through my paramedic program, I have decided that I want to become a physician. Obviously my biggest barrier is my undergrad GPA. Even if I take two years worth of pre-med classes, my cGPA will only rise to ~3.0 – 3.1. I only took a couple science courses as an undergrad, which makes me think I would be able to repair my sGPA to a somewhat respectable level.

I am pretty much willing to do whatever it takes, be it post-bacc programs, SMP or DO. Truth be told, I had never heard of the DO route before coming to this forum, and am still struggling to put aside any doubts of it “not being a real (i.e. MD) doctor.” At the end of the day though, my reasons for wanting to become a physician is that I want to learn as much about medicine as possible, and I want to use that knowledge help people. If I accomplish those two goals I know I shouldn’t care about what sort of alphabet follows my name.

Although I know this is a long-ways off, right now my long term interest lies in Emergency Medicine (medic background) or working abroad in 3rd world countries (which is where most of my childhood was spent due to parents being in the Peace Corps). In terms of these two fields, would MD vs. DO make much of a difference?

If I put in two years hard work (more if necessary), do I have a chance at getting accepted to either program?

DO International Practice Rights: http://forums.studentdoctor.net/showthread.php?t=107627


With a cGPA of 2.7, you have a lot of GPA redemption to accomplish if you want to get into a US medical school. It will take dedication, time, and money to fix the situation, but if you are resolved, then it can be done.

Here are some more-likely-to-be-successful pathways to becoming a physician;

1) Plan to apply to DO med schools. Besides taking the prerequisites, repeat the classes where you did the worst and use AACOMAS grade-forgiveness policy that includes only the most recent retake when calculating the application GPA. If you have some Ds and Fs, this is the fastest way to fix your low GPA if you can get As the second time (note: the repeated class must have the same number or greater credit hours, but needn't be from the same institution, or even have the identical course title). Get near-straight As in prerequisites and upper-level Bio classes due to your new work ethic over ?2-3 semesters. Get a good MCAT score to prove you understood the material. Shadow a DO and get a letter of recommendation. Educate yourself on this option in SDN's PreMed Osteopathic Forum.

2) For a chance at MD: After two years of straight As, with a 3.0+ cGPA, you can qualify for a lot of SMPs (Special Masters Program). This is a 1-2 year (expensive) paid audition/redemption option which can overrride a low uGPA. You'd need an MCAT 28-30+ depending on the program requirements and recent excellent science grades to prove you have potential to succeed in the program. If you perform well in the SMP, where you compete with first year med students at their linked med school and get a high GPA, typically 3.5-3.7 or better, you have a chance of an acceptance at an MD med school. This outcome is not guaranteed, though, but DO schools still remain an option. Read more on this approach in the Postbaccalaureate Programs Forum of SDN.

3) Another option for MD: With those two years of full-time undergrad coursework, getting straight As (which one could do this as a candidate for a second bachelors degree, but there is no obligation to complete the degree since you have one already) and the resulting cGPA of 3.0+ and a very-high BCPM, with a high MCAT score of 34-35+, you might get into an allopathic med school due to the steep upward trend, excellent MCAT score, nontrad status, and strong ECs. These should include research, regular nonmedical community service to the poor over this entire time (1-2 hours per week is fine), and physician shadowing. It looks like you're already in excellent shape for clinical experience, leadership, and teaching.

All these options assume optimal ECs and strong LORs, good PS and excellent interview skills.

JMO

 

[LegendaryPunk]

Stopping in to give an update after completing my first semester of pre-reqs.

- This past summer I took Calc I (A).

- For the fall 2011 semester, I took the first half of biology (A) and chemistry (A) as well as labs for both (2xA).

- Lastly, I also completed the final semester of my paramedic program. In total, all of my EMT classes (basic + paramedic) add up to 46 credit hours; I earned A's for all of those classes.

My initial GPA calculations were a little off. My science GPA upon graduation was actually 2.55 - worse than I originally thought. However, as of the end of this semester, the total of 59 post-bacc hrs. w/ 4.0 GPA has pulled my cumulative GPA up to 3.15, and my science GPA to 3.23 - better than expected.

Next semester I will be taking the second half of bio and chem, as well as statistics. I plan on continuing to perform as an officer at my rescue squad, and will be running for the position of Captain. I also plan on shadowing a couple doctors (~25hrs each specialty), as well as starting to volunteer with some sort of non-medical organization (whatever extra weekend hours I have.)

I hope everybody had as successful a semester as I did 😀

Take care and happy holidays!

 

[Catalystik]

Well done. Keep up the excellent turn-around.

 

[TriagePreMed]

3.15/3.23 with a 30 MCAT should find little trouble getting into D.O. school.

 

[Goro]

Well, almost all DO schools! You wouldn't make the cut for mine, but as for most of the rest, you're fine. Good luck!

3.15/3.23 with a 30 MCAT should find little trouble getting into D.O. school.

 

[dreamweaver1988]

3.15/3.23 with a 30 MCAT should find little trouble getting into D.O. school.

Does this logic still hold true? I'm seeing DO schools now with averages of 3.6/3.5 and 26. Even with a 30, an upward trend, and unique traits like the OP has, I think he will find more than a "little trouble." However, hopefully I'm wrong... 🙂 Good luck OP!

 

[LegendaryPunk]

Hello again everyone,

Another semester down, which means time for another quick update.

- I earned straight A's in Bio II (+lab), Chem II (+lab) and Statistics; 11cr total. This summer I am going to be taking Organic Chem I & II.

- I was recently offered a new job working as a paramedic in the ER of a nearby hospital, and will be starting that position within the next month. I'm hoping that between my EMS experience, and now a full-time job at a hospital, I'll be all set for clinical hours.

- I was not able to get any shadowing done because of the conflict of hours between my day job and class. Hopefully with my new hospital schedule I'll be able to work something out.

- I've started volunteering at local triathlons and races. The time commitment ranges anywhere from 2 - 10 hrs, depending on the size of the race; so far I've been helping at a couple races per month. I plan on continuing to do this throughout the summer.

I'll be back to give another update in a few months. Hope everyone has a great summer!

 

[Catalystik]

It would be nice to see the change in your overall GPAs as you progress, including college, the paramedic program, and postbac.

Here are the classes that AMCAS and AACOMAS consider as BCPM or sGPA: http://forums.studentdoctor.net/showthread.php?t=552026

 

[LegendaryPunk]

It would be nice to see the change in your overall GPAs as you progress, including college, the paramedic program, and postbac.

Here are the classes that AMCAS and AACOMAS consider as BCPM or sGPA: http://forums.studentdoctor.net/showthread.php?t=552026

I have updated my original post to contain all my GPA information. Going forward, I will also include updated GPA info in my progress reports as well.

My current post-bacc GPA is 4.0, with 70cr taken total, 24cr of which are BCPM. This includes the paramedic program (which is complete) and pre-med science courses (ongoing).

My overall cGPA is now 3.2 at 190cr, and my sGPA is 3.44 at 39cr.

 

[LegendaryPunk]

It's been a long time but I'm finally back for an update! The past couple semesters have been overwhelming. Summer 2012 saw me starting my job working nights as a paramedic in an ER while also taking on Orgo I + II. Without a doubt the most miserable summer of my life. Having no control over my schedule as a new hire meant occasionally going from work, to school, then back to work with only a few hours off in between. I've since then stepped up to help coordinate the schedule for night shifters, which means now I generally get the schedule I want. Anyway, this is a GPA update thread and not a blog, so here's the important stuff.

GPA

Summer 2012
Orgo I (A) + Orgo Lab I (A)
Orgo II (B) + Orgo Lab II (A)

Fall 2012
Physics I + Lab (A)
Cell / Molecular Bio (A)
Physiology (A)
Biochem I (B)

This semester (spring 2013) I am taking Physics II + Lab and Genetics. I have no doubt in my ability to earn A's in both classes. Based on that assumption, I can calculate what my final numbers will be come summer.

Undergrad hours and BCPM undergrad hours - 120 / 15
Undergrad GPA and BCPM GPA - 2.74 / 2.55

Paramedic program (4 semesters, 46 credits) - 4.0

Total post-bac hours and BCPM post-bac hours (incl. paramedic program) - 100 / 54
Total post-bac GPA and BCPM post-bac GPA (incl. paramedic program) - 3.95 / 3.91

Cumulative hours and BCPM hours - 220 / 69
Cumulative GPA and BCPM GPA - 3.29 / 3.61

At this point, with 220 credits, I think my regular GPA is pretty much locked in. I could squeeze a few more points into my BCPM with a couple more full science semesters, but right now I don't think that would be the best way to spend the next regular school year (already thinking of my plans for the next year assuming I don't get in this cycle...).

Other Stuff

I have started MCAT review based off the popular SDN independent study plan. Test day is May 23rd.

I continue to volunteer my time as a firefighter / paramedic one night a week. I am planning to take a leave of absence April - June so I can devote more time to MCAT review and applications.

I continue to help out with races / triathlons, although there are not many opportunities during the winter. The real "season" kicks off mid-April.

My teachers love me and I have no doubt that I will be able to get excellent LOR's.

Work on my personal statement is sluggish. My plan was to have a draft finished by end of March, which I will meet, although right now I'm not happy with it overall.

Concerns

I have not done ANY shadowing hours. I hate to only do the minimum, but what sort of hours, over which fields, should I be looking at?

I will have no research experience. I have a opportunity for a part-time position opening in May, but obviously that will not help me this cycle. How much will this hurt my application?

Thank you all for taking the time to read this and offer me your advice. I know how little free time most of us have, and it makes me extremely grateful that some of you choose to spend that time here, helping us hopefuls. Thank you.

 

[OneTwoThreeFour]

Are you sure the paramedic course gets factored into your GPA?

 

[Goro]

Yes, that's going to hurt. You need to know what a doctor's day is like, and be able to see what different doctors do (DOs vs MDs; FMPs vs specialists)

Research is only necessary for the major research intensive schools, like Stanford, but it's helpful to be able to engage in critical thinking and be familiar with the scientific method. But if it's only one thing to do, choose shadowing. You should have 15-30 hrs, depending upon whom you're shadowing.

You're still well below the bar for MD programs, but fine for DO.

I have not done ANY shadowing hours. I hate to only do the minimum, but what sort of hours, over which fields, should I be looking at?

I will have no research experience. I have a opportunity for a part-time position opening in May, but obviously that will not help me this cycle. How much will this hurt my application?

 

[TriagePreMed]

Does this logic still hold true? I'm seeing DO schools now with averages of 3.6/3.5 and 26. Even with a 30, an upward trend, and unique traits like the OP has, I think he will find more than a "little trouble." However, hopefully I'm wrong... 🙂 Good luck OP!

Not for every program, but there are enough programs where the OP could be successful.

 

[LegendaryPunk]

Thanks guys, I appreciate the advice. I tried cold calling a handful of doctor offices for shadowing last spring with no luck, and didn't persist because I was on the verge of being overwhelmed. Hopefully now I can utilize the connections I've made with friends at work to elicit a better response.

Are you sure the paramedic course gets factored into your GPA?

Anecdotally, yes. I have not called any specific schools to ask, but based on feedback from others with a similar situation, the paramedic courses are factored into undergrad GPA because they were college classes and gave college credit. The classes are non-BCPM though, which is a shame.

 

[Weewee]

I really enjoyed reading through your progress on this thread. Congratulations, I hope all of your hard work pays off!!

If you get a high enough mcat score I think you could definitely go MD with an early application, the right schools, and a cohesive story.

Good luck!!


Also....the part time research position will help you, especially when writing update letters, telling interviewers what you are doing, etc. A lot of secondaries ask the 'what are you doing with your life question.'

 

[LegendaryPunk]

I really enjoyed reading through your progress on this thread. Congratulations, I hope all of your hard work pays off!!

If you get a high enough mcat score I think you could definitely go MD with an early application, the right schools, and a cohesive story.

Good luck!!


Also....the part time research position will help you, especially when writing update letters, telling interviewers what you are doing, etc. A lot of secondaries ask the 'what are you doing with your life question.'

Appreciate the feedback...and the encouragement! I did realize that it will look good to be in a research position during the time interviews are being conducted, so that I have something to say when asked what I am doing to improve my app should I not get accepted this cycle. Plus, I'm sure it will come in helpful should I wish to persue any research once in med school, if only for the fact of not being completely unexperienced. I'm just trying to be realistic in that it's not nearly as helpful as already having the experience under my belt.

 

[QuentinT88]

Are you sure the paramedic course gets factored into your GPA?

This is a question i had recently in regards to paramedic/EMT work that I am thinking about getting involved in.

Does anyone know if paramedic courses actually get factored into BCMP gpa or not? Even if it is for college credit?

Thx