BEST ECs that the average person could reasonably be expected to accomplish?

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RunningToad said:
When you add that all up, you've done around 10000 hours of ECs in total.

Spread that across 5 years of undegrad and before it, and that divides to about 38 hours a week, every single week of the year. And on top of that you had time to get a 3.8 GPA and study MCAT.

Something tells me you are either greatly exaggerating or are a non-trad.
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40 hrs is about right for most semesters. I generally worked about 30-35 hrs/wk most semesters and volunteered 4-10. Other activities varied more. I don't really have to study much which may explain things a bit. I tend to just get things. The only time time mgmt was difficult was when I was doing music. That was tough. Science classes not so much.
 
Oh ok, you must have gone to some bird school. Or you have a 160 IQ. That it explains it.

As for everyone else, try to work on your WS skills before the MCAT. If my question was a real question, you would have schooled yourselves. All I asked was what are the best ECs possible for a normal person to accomplish? If you don't understand the question or my wording, you're a ******.
 
Toad, to be honest...activities don't mean as much as what you are able to talk about them. For example, volunteering at anything might make an impact that you are providing some sort of physical labor, but i don't think adcoms are looking for that as much as what it has taught to you about society, people, and how the practice of medicine relates to it. So, as others have mentioned, I don't see the point of the thread.

Let's say you're an author on a paper (I happen to be one, and it so happens to be in Science...*gasp*) but you could've gotten on it because you just happened to do a string of experiments that produced critical results for a paper. You write a few paragraphs about your expts, and that's it. Whoopdie Doo. But if you're able to reflect on that experience in a thoughtful manner, adcoms DO care about that. Authoring a pub might put you on the map, but it's not a true indicator of how hard people work. After mine, I didn't feel more great or anything--i just felt incredibly lucky/fortunate that my PI included me whereas my peers from other labs working night and day still haven't even been put in the acknowledgement sections! I dunno, frankly speaking, some of this stuff is overrated and a lot of luck is thrown into this.

So to make my point, I don't think the "type" of activities/ECs are worth talking about because the type has very little to do with that adcoms will take away from it. To be honest, i don't think any adcoms will think my pub as something "SUPER"...I mean, I'll be glad to take whatever advantage i can get, because we need to play the game, but it means nothing in terms of how hard I work versus my peers.

That being said, if there are any fresh/sophomores readin this, I urge you to stop thinking of premed prep as checklist=acceptance. Explore your options, see what everything is all about. Do what you like to do, and you'll have a lot more perspective than some drone premed checkin off some boxes in his head. (I'm not kidding-You have no idea how many "talk to us about what you're passionate about" prompts you get in secondaries) Once you can get away from checklists, I think you'll get a lot more and have a higher likelihood to show how committed you are to something. That's my two cents.
 
music2doc said:
40 hrs is about right for most semesters. I generally worked about 30-35 hrs/wk most semesters and volunteered 4-10. Other activities varied more. I don't really have to study much which may explain things a bit. I tend to just get things. The only time time mgmt was difficult was when I was doing music. That was tough. Science classes not so much.
Click to expand...

I bet you're the one that found Osama too.

Humility goes a long way.
 
RunningToad said:
Oh ok, you must have gone to some bird school. Or you have a 160 IQ. That it explains it.

As for everyone else, try to work on your WS skills before the MCAT. If my question was a real question, you would have schooled yourselves. All I asked was what are the best ECs possible for a normal person to accomplish? If you don't understand the question or my wording, you're a ******.
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I went to a tier 1 LAC but that's beside the point. The problem is your question doesn't really make sense. Average people don't get into med school. Above average applicants frequently have to reapply. 80 hrs/wk really isn't that much when you're doing things you enjoy and keep things varied. Just wait til residency! Now that's gonna suck....
 
runningtoad is weird as ****. we answered his question so many times.
 
We have been trolled.
:troll: :troll: :troll: :troll:
 
music2doc said:
40 hrs is about right for most semesters. I generally worked about 30-35 hrs/wk most semesters and volunteered 4-10. Other activities varied more. I don't really have to study much which may explain things a bit. I tend to just get things. The only time time mgmt was difficult was when I was doing music. That was tough. Science classes not so much.
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How in the world were you able to schedule all of this? Yes, one can stay awake and do stuff for 80 hrs/wk, but a lot of commitments aren't available during the early morning hours and late evening. Did you not attend class? Did you not have to attend classes for credit, at least for some courses?

That just seems absurd to me...I agree that one would have to be brilliant and hard-working and have crazy luck with opportunities working in synergy for all of that to all be possible.

Your level of success is so far beyond exceptional I wouldn't base any judgment of admissions in general based on your profile.
 
RunningToad said:
Despite the fact that the majority of the replies to this thread from other people have been garbage, due to the fact that few people understand the point of this topic because they are ******s, :
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<snip>

OP, I stopped reading right there and I will not respond to your inquiry.
 
LizzyM said:
<snip>

OP, I stopped reading right there and I will not respond to your inquiry.
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Misc_OhSnap_Bear_answer_2_xlarge.jpeg
 
There seems to be two approaches to medschool ECs.

1) The "checklist" approach: volunteer in various places that you KNOW will look good on a resume, and fill it out with lots of resume padding.

2) The "honest" approach: do things because you actually like them, and because you actually care about making a difference in your community.

The checklist approach is better. Here is why. The checklist approach takes a lot less effort than the honest approach. That way you'll be able to work on your GPA/MCAT more.

The only time you will ever be called out if you are doing the checklist approach is during the interview. They might ask you to describe your experiences at X volunteer opportunity. If you did the checklist approach, you didn't actually gain anything out of that, so you wouldn't have much to say. But there's a simple solution to this dilemma: take what you DID gain, and embellish in it.
 
gettheleadout said:
Your level of success is so far beyond exceptional I wouldn't base any judgment of admissions in general based on your profile.
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I agree, but I don't think some of what she said is possible...

Non-Clinical Employment -- 3 years, 30 hrs/wk
Clinical Employment -- 2 yrs, 24-40 hrs/wk

There is no way you can work 50 hours a week and do what you did, unless non-clinical employment is tutoring other students, where you are pretty much also reviewing yourself while teaching. Not saying you're lying, but I've worked 30 hours a week while in school and it was brutal.

In the case I am wrong, my hat is way off to you.


RunningToad, response to your last post:

Obviously you have to have a few checklist items. Once the checklist items have accrued a respectable amount, it's time to break out your personal things. Hospital volunteering, shadowing a PCP/hospital doctor, club activities, +/- research are checklist. You have done those. Now go join a club for fun and commit a few hours a month to it.
 
...
 
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That's a good point, she listed something as 6 yrs - maybe doing this before college / she has an MS/PhD or something. Still very, very impressive.
 
Nobody is perfect. If you spend a lot of time in something and excel it, naturally you have to give up something else. I've noticed that people here like to brag about their impossibly perfect profiles (i.e. exaggerate or outright lie) behind the safety of anonymity. I can only hope that these same people do not do the same on their applications. Otherwise, I feel greatly disadvantaged for being honest.
 
RunningToad said:
There seems to be two approaches to medschool ECs.

1) The "checklist" approach: volunteer in various places that you KNOW will look good on a resume, and fill it out with lots of resume padding.

2) The "honest" approach: do things because you actually like them, and because you actually care about making a difference in your community.

The checklist approach is better. Here is why. The checklist approach takes a lot less effort than the honest approach. That way you'll be able to work on your GPA/MCAT more.

The only time you will ever be called out if you are doing the checklist approach is during the interview. They might ask you to describe your experiences at X volunteer opportunity. If you did the checklist approach, you didn't actually gain anything out of that, so you wouldn't have much to say. But there's a simple solution to this dilemma: take what you DID gain, and embellish in it.
Click to expand...

Wow, you actually made an astute observation. Ideally the checklist and honest approaches would be somewhat overlapping. If not, then medicine perhaps doesn't match your interests.
 
RunningToad said:
The checklist approach is better. Here is why. The checklist approach takes a lot less effort than the honest approach. That way you'll be able to work on your GPA/MCAT more.
Click to expand...

Hm. For me, I had a completely different experience. My grades improved when I took the "honest approach," (or whatever you want to call it) where my activities were representative of my interests and curiosity. For me, it gave me motivation to succeed through having a context-(e.g. being at the clinic, and reflecting on the experiences of my patients).

But i think that's probably just me. lolz.
 
Alejandro said:
Hm. For me, I had a completely different experience. My grades improved when I took the "honest approach," (or whatever you want to call it) where my activities were representative of my interests and curiosity. For me, it gave me motivation to succeed through having a context-(e.g. being at the clinic, and reflecting on the experiences of my patients).

But i think that's probably just me. lolz.
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Yes, you're one in a million.
 
NickNaylor said:
Wow, you actually made an astute observation. Ideally the checklist and honest approaches would be somewhat overlapping. If not, then medicine perhaps doesn't match your interests.
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Is that what your sociology professor told you?
 
gettheleadout said:
Except she said she wasn't non-trad...so, yeah...
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I am early to mid-20s. I've graduated (recently).

The list I gave was basically just what I've done in the last 4 years, except for those things I started before that time and continued into the last 4 years. I like to maintain some anonymity, so I am not giving all of the details. Suffice it to say I've graduated and am right about the mean applicant age. I didn't really provide information on what I've done with the intention of having it so well analyzed. I gave amounts of time spent to give a feel for what one might do. It was more for completeness than anything else. Basically, I would suggest most people want to have clinical, research, volunteer, and leadership activities. In many cases, one activity will fulfill 2-4 of these categories.

Anyway... enough about me.


I agree with those who've said quality is much more important than quantity. It's all about how well you can present each experience. One suggestion I have is to get involved in things you enjoy and just be on the lookout for how you can apply your science and medical interests. That's what I've done. I simply look for ways to serve where I'm at.

When the church I have been involved with for years wanted to open a clinic for people in need, I gave the new program director a call and basically said, "Hey, I've been working at another clinic for a couple of years and also work with our pre-health students at X University. Can I help you see patients and even help staff your program with our students?" Now I can list that I helped start a clinic on my app and I've helped increase the chances that those students under my program will be successful, which will reflect quite well on me. Of course, my involvement ultimately ran much deeper than that but it wasn't random chance that got me in. It was the fact that I'd been involved in that organization for years and they happened to want to start a program. I found out and pursued helping them. I would never have had that opportunity had I stopped at 1 volunteer activity or been checking of boxes on some checklist. Instead, I got that opportunity because I'd been involved at that church and had offered to serve in other ways first. Later, when they got the idea to have a clinic, I was already right in the middle of their program. It was pretty easy for me to jump into a new area of service. All I can say is that the opportunities I've had have been a huge blessing to me, but I've learned that there's really a science to "luck." I don't think "lucky people" are really any more fortunate than the rest of us. Instead, they tend to make decisions that turn out well despite the immediately apparent odds being against them.
 
music2doc said:
I don't really think there is an "optimal" set of ECs because everyone is different. That said, here is a summary of my app, which I'd say is "reasonable" and covers the main areas quite thoroughly (IMO):

GPA: 3.85
MCAT: TBD (AAMC Avg: 37)

ECs:
Non-Clinical Employment -- 3 years, 30 hrs/wk
Clinical Employment -- 2 yrs, 24-40 hrs/wk
Research (1 poster and 1 oral presentation, 4 projects, 2 medically-related projects, leadership position) -- 5 yrs, 10 hrs/wk
Non-Clinical Volunteering -- 6 yrs, 6-10 hrs/wk
Clinical Volunteering (leadership position) -- 1.5 yrs, 6 hrs/wk
Shadowing -- ~50 hrs
Scribing -- ~100 hrs
TA/Lab Instructor/Tutor -- 2 yrs, 10 hrs/wk
International Work -- 12 wks in various countries, ongoing work -- closely related to a major area of interest
Other Hobbies & Artistic Endeavors -- 7 yrs, 2-5 hrs/wk -- portfolio available
Pre-Health/Pre-Medical Leadership (oversaw rebuilding of university program & dept) -- 2 yrs, 2-6 hrs/wk

Languages: English (native), Spanish (non-native/advanced fluency)

IMO, the important point, though, is why this is an optimal list for me:

Each supports my interests and works together to show who I am. They present a coherent picture of who I am and why I am pursuing medicine. Each element contributes to a whole. There is no evident "checklist" that was checked off (because, quite simply, I wasn't checking off anybody's "to do" list).

For you, the "optimal list" will be different -- guaranteed -- as it should be. The essential point is that you must create a coherent and accurate image of who you are. Your ECs need to support what the interviewer will see later. If they do not, then no matter how great of applicants both your portrayed image and the real you are, you don't stand a chance! This is why the checklist approach to admissions simply does not work.
Click to expand...

By my tally + (6-8) hours of sleep I count that you are over your weekly allotment of Hours....
 
AzDesertDoc said:
By my tally + (6-8) hours of sleep I count that you are over your weekly allotment of Hours....
Click to expand...

Seriously...? Fine... here's how it works:

Non-Clinical Employment -- 3 years (1-3), 30 hrs/wk
Clinical Employment -- 2 yrs (4-5), 24-40 hrs/wk
Research (1 poster and 1 oral presentation, 4 projects, 2 medically-related projects, leadership position) -- 5 yrs, 2-10 hrs/wk (0-5)
Non-Clinical Volunteering -- 6 yrs, 6-10 hrs/wk (0-5)
Clinical Volunteering (leadership position) -- 1.5 yrs, 6 hrs/wk (4-5)
Shadowing -- ~50 hrs
Scribing -- ~100 hrs
TA/Lab Instructor/Tutor -- 2 yrs, 10 hrs/wk (4-5)
International Work -- 12 wks in various countries, ongoing work -- closely related to a major area of interest
Other Hobbies & Artistic Endeavors -- 7 yrs, 2-5 hrs/wk -- portfolio available (variable, 0-5)
Pre-Health/Pre-Medical Leadership (oversaw rebuilding of university program & dept) -- 2 yrs, 2-6 hrs/wk (4-5)

Years (using low to midrange estimates because the low to mid-range was where I was most of the time during the school-year with peaks at various times):
1-3 -- ~45 hrs/wk + school (keep in mind, this includes fun ECs; we're not talking up to nearly 45 hrs/wk of work + school; at times, I was able to get some studying done while working)

4-5 -- ~55 hrs/wk + school (once again, some of these positions allowed for studying while working, e.g., during slow times in the ED. Some of these were also variable in terms of time commitments.)

My school schedule was extremely variable depending upon coursework (e.g., music vs science classes), but my mostly science semesters tended to look like:
2 sciences + labs -- 8 hrs lecture + 4 hrs lab + 4 hrs lab work + 1 hr studying = 17 hrs
3 humanities -- 9 hrs lecture + 3 hrs writing papers/studying = 12 hrs
TOTAL = 29 hrs

29+45=74 hrs/wk (yrs 1-3)
29+55=84 hrs/wk (yrs 4-5)

Tougher academic semesters, I scaled back the ECs. When work needed more, I scaled back academics. When I needed to study for the MCAT, I took as much time off as I could and had built up high enough grades in my classes that I could sacrifice my last few test grades and still pull a respectably high A.

Was/is it intense? Absolutely.
Was there sacrifice, crying, and gnashing of teeth at times? Yup.
Was it truly impossible as some of you claim? Apparently not.

That said, I found my limit one month when I attempted about 60 hrs of work along with a full academic schedule. (I accepted another job.) Even though I cut back on my regular ECs to compensate, the stress of the new job was too much. I quit shortly thereafter.

We all have our limits. I definitely don't suggest you attempt what I did. I'm simply not one to say no and I managed to pull things off in spite of that character flaw. It's definitely something I'm working on.
 
music2doc said:
Seriously...? Fine... here's how it works:

Non-Clinical Employment -- 3 years (1-3), 30 hrs/wk
Clinical Employment -- 2 yrs (4-5), 24-40 hrs/wk
Research (1 poster and 1 oral presentation, 4 projects, 2 medically-related projects, leadership position) -- 5 yrs, 2-10 hrs/wk (0-5)
Non-Clinical Volunteering -- 6 yrs, 6-10 hrs/wk (0-5)
Clinical Volunteering (leadership position) -- 1.5 yrs, 6 hrs/wk (4-5)
Shadowing -- ~50 hrs
Scribing -- ~100 hrs
TA/Lab Instructor/Tutor -- 2 yrs, 10 hrs/wk (4-5)
International Work -- 12 wks in various countries, ongoing work -- closely related to a major area of interest
Other Hobbies & Artistic Endeavors -- 7 yrs, 2-5 hrs/wk -- portfolio available (variable, 0-5)
Pre-Health/Pre-Medical Leadership (oversaw rebuilding of university program & dept) -- 2 yrs, 2-6 hrs/wk (4-5)

Years (using low to midrange estimates because the low to mid-range was where I was most of the time during the school-year with peaks at various times):
1-3 -- ~45 hrs/wk + school (keep in mind, this includes fun ECs; we're not talking up to nearly 45 hrs/wk of work + school; at times, I was able to get some studying done while working)

4-5 -- ~55 hrs/wk + school (once again, some of these positions allowed for studying while working, e.g., during slow times in the ED. Some of these were also variable in terms of time commitments.)

My school schedule was extremely variable depending upon coursework (e.g., music vs science classes), but my mostly science semesters tended to look like:
2 sciences + labs -- 8 hrs lecture + 4 hrs lab + 4 hrs lab work + 1 hr studying = 17 hrs
3 humanities -- 9 hrs lecture + 3 hrs writing papers/studying = 12 hrs
TOTAL = 29 hrs

29+45=74 hrs/wk (yrs 1-3)
29+55=84 hrs/wk (yrs 4-5)

Tougher academic semesters, I scaled back the ECs. When work needed more, I scaled back academics. When I needed to study for the MCAT, I took as much time off as I could and had built up high enough grades in my classes that I could sacrifice my last few test grades and still pull a respectably high A.

Was/is it intense? Absolutely.
Was there sacrifice, crying, and gnashing of teeth at times? Yup.
Was it truly impossible as some of you claim? Apparently not.

That said, I found my limit one month when I attempted about 60 hrs of work along with a full academic schedule. (I accepted another job.) Even though I cut back on my regular ECs to compensate, the stress of the new job was too much. I quit shortly thereafter.

We all have our limits. I definitely don't suggest you attempt what I did. I'm simply not one to say no and I managed to pull things off in spite of that character flaw. It's definitely something I'm working on.
Click to expand...

You've gone through extraordinary lengths to prove this to everyone, why? Who cares if we believe you, just ignore it. I mean, to be honest I thought there was something fishy about it as well but why should you care if I or 500 other people call BS? You don't need our validation.
 
Narmerguy said:
You've gone through extraordinary lengths to prove this to everyone, why? Who cares if we believe you, just ignore it. I mean, to be honest I thought there was something fishy about it as well but why should you care if I or 500 other people call BS? You don't need our validation.
Click to expand...

True. Call it procrastination or useful critique. It made me go through my AMCAS submission very carefully and ensure that everything is in order. If it seems too much to you then I'd guess it might to someone else reading the app, so I've gone through a few extra times to ensure nothing is even the least bit exaggerated or estimated more highly than it ought to be. The fact is that averages are estimates (unless you really clocked every single hour and then went back to examine everything that closely).
 
Music, nothing short of impressive. You have nothing to prove to me, I was merely sceptical. In the end, your EC's, true or not, are amazing.
 
Can you use ranges in the average hours per week in Work/Activities section?
 
Let me remind everyone in this thread that obscenities and insults are not permitted by the Terms of Service.

Now play nicely. You can answer questions without being mean. Likewise, you can ask questions without being mean.

I would also like to point out the handy-dandy ignore feature. 🙂 A highly underutilized feature of the forums that I thoroughly encourage folks to use should they find some users not quite to their reading pleasure tastes.
 
Fanforever said:
Can you use ranges in the average hours per week in Work/Activities section?
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No...unfortunately. What I did was put an avg number if it was fairly consistent. If not, I left the # of hrs blank and put details in the description box -- e.g., (9/10-12/10--5 hrs/wk, 1/11-5/11--10 hrs/wk)
 
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