Better return of investment: Pharmacy vs other careers?

[JakeSill]

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I will be looking at costs of private schools. Pharmacist $120k median salary(No need to have private practice. Also, excluding the saturation. Lets just say if I can get a job). $160k tuition. Dentist $185k-$200k income or more but has to pay for a private Private Practice. Tuition $280k. Go back to school and do Computer Science $27k tuition and salary is $60,000-$120,000. Masters in business(not MBA). Tuition 40k. Salary 60K

 

[lane one]

Don't forget living expenses while in pharmacy school. Depending on the location you choose, you could be looking at 100k on top of your tuition.

 

[wagrxm2000]

I think at this point no one knows what pharmacy will be like in 6 years so salary isn't what I would be looking at.

 

[gwarm01]

Don't forget to consider cost of living as well. For computer science, you can easily make >100k but it would most likely require living in a high CoL area on the west coast. If you live in some place like Georgia or Mississippi as a pharmacist, making 100k puts you in the upper echelons of society.

 

[PharmtoCS]

In terms of job prospects, pharmacy has already been saturated for the last 5 years and is only going to get worse as more schools graduate their first classes. Dentistry and computer science are probably more likely to land you a job by the time you graduate. There are plenty of software engineer jobs in cities outside of San Francisco (i.e. Raleigh, Austin, Denver) that pay very well relative to the cost of living.
https://www.glassdoor.com/research/real-value-of-salaries/

 

[JakeSill]

Don't forget living expenses while in pharmacy school. Depending on the location you choose, you could be looking at 100k on top of your tuition.

Just focusing on tuition right now right. If I get lucky, everything can be in state and I can commute.

 

[steveysmith54]

I will be looking at costs of private schools. Pharmacist $120k median salary(No need to have private practice. Also, excluding the saturation. Lets just say if I can get a job). $160k tuition. Dentist $185k-$200k income or more but has to pay for a private Private Practice. Tuition $280k. Go back to school and do Computer Science $27k tuition and salary is $60,000-$120,000. Masters in business(not MBA). Tuition 40k. Salary 60K

I think you have to look at longevity and most importantly job outlook. According to BLS pharmacist job outlook is only 3 percent increase in jobs over the entire 10 years compared to 18% for dentists. I wouldn't go into dentistry myself or any of the Computer sciences, MBA jobs that you mention. I enjoy health care, so i would consider PA, NP, occupational therapy, physical therapy, speech therapy, just to name of few. But, at this point, I would strongly strive for DO/MD route. Too late for me, but just telling you what i would do if i could do it all over again.. GL.

 

[JakeSill]

I think at this point no one knows what pharmacy will be like in 6 years so salary isn't what I would be looking at.

True. Just wanted to know as of right now.

 

[JakeSill]

I think you have to look at longevity and most importantly job outlook. According to BLS pharmacist job outlook is only 3 percent increase in jobs over the entire 10 years compared to 18% for dentists. I wouldn't go into dentistry myself or any of the Computer sciences, MBA jobs that you mention. I enjoy health care, so i would consider PA, NP, occupational therapy, physical therapy, speech therapy, just to name of few. But, at this point, I would strongly strive for DO/MD route. Too late for me, but just telling you what i would do if i could do it all over again.. GL.

Thanks.

 

[JakeSill]

I think you have to look at longevity and most importantly job outlook. According to BLS pharmacist job outlook is only 3 percent increase in jobs over the entire 10 years compared to 18% for dentists. I wouldn't go into dentistry myself or any of the Computer sciences, MBA jobs that you mention. I enjoy health care, so i would consider PA, NP, occupational therapy, physical therapy, speech therapy, just to name of few. But, at this point, I would strongly strive for DO/MD route. Too late for me, but just telling you what i would do if i could do it all over again.. GL.

Just wondering, why wouldn't you want to get into dentisty? Is it still health care?

 

[steveysmith54]

Just wondering, why wouldn't you want to get into dentisty? Is it still health care?

Pretty simple, I hate going to my dentist. I hate everything about being in a dental office and dental work. I have undergrad college friends who are dentists, extremely successful financially. I have a ton of respect for the profession, i just can't imagine myself doing dental work.

the smartest people in the world are ones who can anticipate and foresee the future and make decisions accordingly. In the early 2000's when I went into Pharmacy school, the profession was flourishing, we had sign on bonuses and multiple job offers. Things are obviously different now, make an educated decision.

 

[MrBonita]

The dental hygienist degree all said and done is 4 years at a community college. According to the cerritos college website the tuition for 1 year is 1346 because its community college. According to my friend who is a dental hygienist, she makes 100k a year and the link below also says it. You tell me what is worth it? 150k a year and 200k debt and 8 years of school or 100k a year and 4 years of school at community college. If I were a 18 year old, I would skip the UC BS degree and pharm.D degree and do dental hygiene. In fact , I am heavily contemplating leaving the pharmacy world for a dental hygienist degree. My friend who is a USC grad dentist cleans teeth all day, and you dont need to be a dentist to do that. Skip the debt. If I were in your shoes I would not be a dentist or pharmacist.

http://cms.cerritos.edu/dental-hygiene/

http://www.labormarketinfo.edd.ca.gov/OccGuides/Summary.aspx?Soccode=292021&Geography=0601000000

 

[JakeSill]

In terms of job prospects, pharmacy has already been saturated for the last 5 years and is only going to get worse as more schools graduate their first classes. Dentistry and computer science are probably more likely to land you a job by the time you graduate. There are plenty of software engineer jobs in cities outside of San Francisco (i.e. Raleigh, Austin, Denver) that pay very well relative to the cost of living.
https://www.glassdoor.com/research/real-value-of-salaries/

I'm looking at it from the aspect of me getting a job.

 

[Caffeine QAM]

Computers are the future. Think about the progress of computing... 20 years ago, most household didn't have a computer at all. Now, people carry computers in their pockets, have computers at home, use computers at work...computers run everything and are able to perform so many different job functions. Even as pharmacists and physicians, we are ruled by computers. Look at the transitin to complete electronic health records. 1-2 year masters degree in computer science can go a long way...save 2 additional years of tuition compared to 4-year pharmacy or dental programs, save 2 years of opportunity cost of attending school full-time, and your true cost savings are looking close to $200,000 in the first 2 years. That's not even factoring in residency, if you were to go that route in pharmacy.

 

[Chalupa_Batman86]

The ONLY way I go to pharmacy school if I were in your shoes: they pay for my whole damn tuition. Then fine, I'll sacrifice 4 years of my life and hope the cards fall my way. There are other unconventional options out there too. Had a super smart friend from undergrad who graduated with a 4.0 in Biophysics, scored in the top 5%ile on the MCAT but decided to tutor full-time after realizing medicine wasn't for her: MCAT Verbal Reasoning. She is an excellent teacher, not to mention a super charming personality and is now easily pulling in $100/hour (CASH!) at 35 hours per week. If you like teaching the ins and outs of standardized exams, try that option. No extra school required, and if you're good, students will overload your e-mail and phone. There are no shortage of pre-medical college students out there looking for a top notch MCAT teacher.

 

[y0ssarian87]

The ONLY way I go to pharmacy school if I were in your shoes: they pay for my whole damn tuition. Then fine, I'll sacrifice 4 years of my life and hope the cards fall my way. There are other unconventional options out there too. Had a super smart friend from undergrad who graduated with a 4.0 in Biophysics, scored in the top 5%ile on the MCAT but decided to tutor full-time after realizing medicine wasn't for her: MCAT Verbal Reasoning. She is an excellent teacher, not to mention a super charming personality and is now easily pulling in $100/hour (CASH!) at 35 hours per week. If you like teaching the ins and outs of standardized exams, try that option. No extra school required, and if you're good, students will overload your e-mail and phone. There are no shortage of pre-medical college students out there looking for a top notch MCAT teacher.

So true. I worked (briefly) for a test prep company in LA where I was certified to tutor in math and science for all sorts of exams including MCAT. They were always looking for tutors. The schedule and commute can be rough though.


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[A&B]

Software engineering is definitely THE field to get into these days, with lower student loans, 4 years of study and ever growing salaries. This is my first time posting here but I've been following studentdoctor for years now dating back to when I was in school and wanted to go into pharmacy. I studied biology in preparation until I realized it wasn't the field for me and changed majors to computer science instead. This took another 2.5 years until I finally graduated in 2012. My first software development job out of college was at a mid size IT consulting firm. I along with 3 other recent grad coworkers had starting salaries of around $60k each. Fast forward 4 years later and we have all switched jobs, some of us twice. Two of those coworkers now make over $100k. As for myself I got a security clearance and now make around $140k, standard 40hr work week. And if you work in Silicon Valley or do financial programming in New York, salaries can go even higher, although these two places typically expect a 50+ hr work week. My cousin got an offer of $120k working at a startup in Silicon Valley after graduating with a Masters in CS in Stanford. Where I live, starting salaries for developers are now creeping up to $70k-$80k.

Who knows what the future holds for pharmacy and software development but like another poster said, we will depend more and more on computers . But as of right now, software development is better if you are strictly talking in terms of return of investment. If you have a passion for pharmacy then please stay the course. But if not and you are just looking for a profession with great job prospects and pay then software development might be for you, the field is RED HOT. Hell you don't even need a CS degree these days, if you have the aptitude for it (CS requires good math and reasoning skills), you can go do a coding bootcamp for less than a year and land a programming job afterwards. Get your foot in the door, salary might not be great starting out, but get a couple of years of exp and switch jobs a couple of times and you should have no problem breaking $100k if you live in a major metropolitan area.

 

[Momus]

My cousin got an offer of $120k working at a startup in Silicon Valley after graduating with a Masters in CS in Stanford.

This is the golden ticket to be a multi-millionaire if you are lucky. Ask for equity > salary.

 

[68PGunner]

Software engineering is definitely THE field to get into these days, with lower student loans, 4 years of study and ever growing salaries. This is my first time posting here but I've been following studentdoctor for years now dating back to when I was in school and wanted to go into pharmacy. I studied biology in preparation until I realized it wasn't the field for me and changed majors to computer science instead. This took another 2.5 years until I finally graduated in 2012. My first software development job out of college was at a mid size IT consulting firm. I along with 3 other recent grad coworkers had starting salaries of around $60k each. Fast forward 4 years later and we have all switched jobs, some of us twice. Two of those coworkers now make over $100k. As for myself I got a security clearance and now make around $140k, standard 40hr work week. And if you work in Silicon Valley or do financial programming in New York, salaries can go even higher, although these two places typically expect a 50+ hr work week. My cousin got an offer of $120k working at a startup in Silicon Valley after graduating with a Masters in CS in Stanford. Where I live, starting salaries for developers are now creeping up to $70k-$80k.

Who knows what the future holds for pharmacy and software development but like another poster said, we will depend more and more on computers . But as of right now, software development is better if you are strictly talking in terms of return of investment. If you have a passion for pharmacy then please stay the course. But if not and you are just looking for a profession with great job prospects and pay then software development might be for you, the field is RED HOT. Hell you don't even need a CS degree these days, if you have the aptitude for it (CS requires good math and reasoning skills), you can go do a coding bootcamp for less than a year and land a programming job afterwards. Get your foot in the door, salary might not be great starting out, but get a couple of years of exp and switch jobs a couple of times and you should have no problem breaking $100k if you live in a major metropolitan area.

This sounds bs. What's stopping IT firms from hiring Indian foreigners through HB1 Visas in order to keep costs down?

I have an advice for the OP:

If you want to know the best career field for you down the road, you should choose the field with the highest cost of entry and time. Afterward, the name of the game is to keep your tuition and living cost down. For example, I know some people that get paid to go to medical school for free.

Your future prospect is based on the law of supply and demand -- the higher the entry cost, the lower the supply side will be in the future. With rising demand and a restricted supply, your salary will be in your control. Once the supply side is saturated, your salary will be out of your control. That's when you become a number in the grand scheme of things, rather than the moneymaker.

 

[TheBlaah]

This sounds bs. What's stopping IT firms from hiring Indian foreigners through HB1 Visas in order to keep costs down?

Who says they don't? There are whole divisions made up of immigrant/foreign workers working in IT. I dunno what you think is BS about that post though. Starting 60-70k in IT and eventually reaching 100k+ after 4-5 years sounds about right if they're proficient at the task. I'm not really certain about that coding bootcamp bit; you're really going to have to prove yourself if you go that route.

 

[A&B]

This is the golden ticket to be a multi-millionaire if you are lucky. Ask for equity > salary.

Indeed that is the golden ticket, the starting $120k is only base salary, equity can push total compensation to near $200k for those coming out of elite CS schools like Stanford and Berkeley and working in the Bay area. And yes if you are lucky you can become a multimillionaire if your startup blows up and you joined early enough( I wouldn't count on it though as most eventually fail).

Who says they don't? There are whole divisions made up of immigrant/foreign workers working in IT. I dunno what you think is BS about that post though. Starting 60-70k in IT and eventually reaching 100k+ after 4-5 years sounds about right if they're proficient at the task. I'm not really certain about that coding bootcamp bit; you're really going to have to prove yourself if you go that route.

Yes, there are alot of companies that hire alot of H1B workers, mainly big consulting firms like Accenture and Deloitte but big tech companies have their fair share too. If you want to avoid that, work for smaller companies or startups. Still the supply is not keeping up with the demand. Even these H1B workers are compensated well, take a look at this chart that details the companies hiring the most H1B workers and what they are paying them: http://www.myvisajobs.com/Reports/2016-H1B-Visa-Sponsor.aspx

4-5 years is plenty enough time to reach 100k, faster if you live in a hot area like Boston, Seattle, or DC... (Silicon Valley and NY start out more than that b/c of such high cost of living). No need to go living in the boonies or Alaska. My coworkers reached that switching jobs after only 2 years. One of them just switched again for a $130k offer. I took a lowish $75k job after 2 years but it gave me a clearance which is the golden ticket in the DC area.

Yep, coding bootcamps are pretty hardcore and it's definitely only for the few who can truly dedicate all of their time to it and be good enough to survive, but it's only for about half a year or so. These are typically done by people who already graduated in something other than CS and realize how crappy the job market is for their degree and have the dedication and will to go back and do it. For the rest of us, a 4 year traditional CS program is still better.

 

[68PGunner]

Who says they don't? There are whole divisions made up of immigrant/foreign workers working in IT. I dunno what you think is BS about that post though. Starting 60-70k in IT and eventually reaching 100k+ after 4-5 years sounds about right if they're proficient at the task. I'm not really certain about that coding bootcamp bit; you're really going to have to prove yourself if you go that route.

It's more like 60K in IT and then 100K after 4-5 years. I have a lot of buddies that have gone this route. The problem is that you're pretty much guaranteed to be in a major metropolitan where taxes cost that 60K to about $35-40K if you're single. Then, if you adjust in the high cost of living, you're literally only have about 10-15K of saving left. It's a cool gig to start off. However, there's zero job security down the road. Like I said before, what's stopping a firm from replacing your expensive salary at $100K/yr with someone cheaper from India?

 

[EyeTeeFarmer]

Best return on investment ever is 2 dollars to win the Powerball.

Also, for the Stanford poster, undergrad tuition at Stanford is no joke. It costs more than many pharmacy schools.

[shameless promotion] Go to #4 on this list. Public and competitive. And cheap/free. http://www.bestvalueschools.com/computer-science-degrees-best-roi/

 

[A&B]

It's more like 60K in IT and then 100K after 4-5 years. I have a lot of buddies that have gone this route. The problem is that you're pretty much guaranteed to be in a major metropolitan where taxes cost that 60K to about $35-40K if you're single. Then, if you adjust in the high cost of living, you're literally only have about 10-15K of saving left. It's a cool gig to start off. However, there's zero job security down the road. Like I said before, what's stopping a firm from replacing your expensive salary at $100K/yr with someone cheaper from India?

Average starting salaries in major metropolitan areas aren't $60k anymore, it's a bit higher than that now. Take a look:
Boston: ~80k http://www.payscale.com/research/US/Job=Software_Engineer/Salary/4d6e29dc/Entry-Level-Boston-MA
Seattle: ~90k http://www.payscale.com/research/US/Job=Software_Engineer/Salary/08312947/Entry-Level-Seattle-WA
DC: ~75k http://www.payscale.com/research/US/Job=Software_Engineer/Salary/575b20a2/Entry-Level-Washington-DC

and are even higher in the Bay area and NY. Sure you can land in a company that might eventually replace you with an H1B worker but these companies wouldn't have offered a good salary in the first place. I know as I joined one out of college, that's why me and my 3 coworkers left after 2 years, the pay and yearly raise sucked. There is still a shortage of developers, I get 10+ job opportunities from recruiters every week and I'm no superstar coder.

Best return on investment ever is 2 dollars to win the Powerball.

Also, for the Stanford poster, undergrad tuition at Stanford is no joke. It costs more than many pharmacy schools.

[shameless promotion] Go to #4 on this list. Public and competitive. And cheap/free. http://www.bestvalueschools.com/computer-science-degrees-best-roi/

Georgia Tech is indeed pretty awesome! I'm planning to apply for their online CS Masters program that only costs $6k to complete, so cheap!!! Yeah, the only benefit to going to a place like Stanford is that it will put you in the right environment to be picked up by Silicon Valley startups or Google/Facebook/Apple... straight out of college. But you can attend any college, graduate and do good work and after a couple of years when you apply at those places, nobody will care where you went to school, all that matters is your skills.

 

[PharmtoCS]

The number of H1Bs is capped at 65,000 a year. Even all the H1Bs aren't even enough to fill the computer programmer shortage. Just look at the difference between how computer programmers and pharmacists are treated.

Computer programmers:

• $70k+ (sometimes even $100k+) salaries straight out of college
• $100-150k after 4 years that you could have spent in pharmacy school
• Workplace is more like a playground
• Companies throw money at programmers to get them to stay (or join)

Pharmacists:

• $200k+ loans and an additional 4 years of professional school
• Work environment is typically sweatshop-like
• Companies will gladly show you the door and make sure that it doesn't hit you on the way out

 

[68PGunner]

The number of H1Bs is capped at 65,000 a year. Even all the H1Bs aren't even enough to fill the computer programmer shortage. Just look at the difference between how computer programmers and pharmacists are treated.

Computer programmers:

• $70k+ (sometimes even $100k+) salaries straight out of college
• $100-150k after 4 years that you could have spent in pharmacy school
• Workplace is more like a playground
• Companies throw money at programmers to get them to stay (or join)

Pharmacists:

• $200k+ loans and an additional 4 years of professional school
• Work environment is typically sweatshop-like
• Companies will gladly show you the door and make sure that it doesn't hit you on the way out

I'm not advocating for OP to become a pharmacist instead of a programmer. If those are the options, I would choose to become a programmer. However, there are other options mentioned by the OP including dentistry. In his case, I would chose dentistry over pharmacy and CS 10/10, especially if you're admitted to a state school.

Programmers are in high demand bc the tech industry is booming right now. But, what would happen when the market goes bust with social media names getting destroyed by the stock market? You're looking at a 4-5 year career at most.

Finally, there's a reason why the biggest advocates for an increase in H1B Visas have been big tech companies like Microsoft. They're sick of paying good money to programmers and instead want to lower cost and increase their profit margins. If you want control of your career, you need to be in a field where companies can't replace you with H1B foreigners.

This is what is going to happen for the future for programmers. Regular college kids start to see the bright money sign from CS. Every kid wants to be a CS programmers bc the cost of entry is minimal. Supply of programmers increases. Then, the wage needs to go down or programmers need to work like slaves in sweatshops. It happened with ibanking 8-10 years ago during the financial boom.

 

[TheBlaah]

This is what is going to happen for the future for programmers. Regular college kids start to see the bright money sign from CS. Every kid wants to be a CS programmers bc the cost of entry is minimal. Supply of programmers increases. Then, the wage needs to go down or programmers need to work like slaves in sweatshops. It happened with ibanking 8-10 years ago during the financial boom.

It'll be awhile before programmers will need to "work like slaves in sweatshops". One thing renowned about IT is its fantastic work environment. I can think of no other job that can beat it in that department. Even in startup companies, a lot is provided for in the office usually. This is because programming can be intensive and can easily lead to burnout otherwise. In the end, if they got rid of all their amenities, all the companies would probably end up losing money from the turnover.

 

[68PGunner]

It'll be awhile before programmers will need to "work like slaves in sweatshops". One thing renowned about IT is its fantastic work environment. I can think of no other job that can beat it in that department. Even in startup companies, a lot is provided for in the office usually. This is because programming can be intensive and can easily lead to burnout otherwise. In the end, if they got rid of all their amenities, all the companies would probably end up losing money from the turnover.

There's like zero entry cost to keep the supply of programmers down. In fact, the number of programmers for the coming years is going to exponentially grow. On the demand side, it only takes one recession, meaning a burst to the tech boom before pink slips are handed. It's nice now. However, there's zero job security in bad times.

 

[Chalupa_Batman86]

There's like zero entry cost to keep the supply of programmers down. In fact, the number of programmers for the coming years is going to exponentially grow. On the demand side, it only takes one recession, meaning a burst to the tech boom before pink slips are handed. It's nice now. However, there's zero job security in bad times.

Just as nurse practitioners and PA's (cheaper labor) are taking part of the physicians' pie, cheaper programmers from India and abroad will take the pie from those in the States who are not as competent as their programming colleagues or competitors. Like with any job, it is important to stay on top of your field which is easiest to do when you have a genuine interest with the work at hand. The majority of today's incoming pharmacy students are in for a rude surprise when they find dispensing med's and dealing with an angry mob of customers and upper management isn't really career-fulfilling. Add to the fact that there is really no threshold to becoming a licensed pharmacist. Passing the NAPLEX requires high-school "algebra," the MPJE requires a good course (over a 4-5 month time period), and doing well in classes requires rote memorization and repetition, with perhaps exception to Medicinal Chemistry. Low threshold means saturated field, which in turn means more luck required to getting employment. Higher threshold for medical school (difficult MCAT being the first of a whole series of stressful exams) is obvious, as is the higher threshold for becoming a competent programmer (thinking ahead, creative and logical thinking). It is better to suffer and work hard now, rather than taking the easy way out now just to suffer later, for life.

 

[ChalupaBatman86]

Just as nurse practitioners and PA's (cheaper labor) are taking part of the physicians' pie, cheaper programmers from India and abroad will take the pie from those in the States who are not as competent as their programming colleagues or competitors. Like with any job, it is important to stay on top of your field which is easiest to do when you have a genuine interest with the work at hand. The majority of today's incoming pharmacy students are in for a rude surprise when they find dispensing med's and dealing with an angry mob of customers and upper management isn't really career-fulfilling. Add to the fact that there is really no threshold to becoming a licensed pharmacist. Passing the NAPLEX requires high-school "algebra," the MPJE requires a good course (over a 4-5 month time period), and doing well in classes requires rote memorization and repetition, with perhaps exception to Medicinal Chemistry. Low threshold means saturated field, which in turn means more luck required to getting employment. Higher threshold for medical school (difficult MCAT being the first of a whole series of stressful exams) is obvious, as is the higher threshold for becoming a competent programmer (thinking ahead, creative and logical thinking). It is better to suffer and work hard now, rather than taking the easy way out now just to suffer later, for life.

Shrimp soup, shrimp casserole, shrimp sandwich, shrimp gumbo, fried shrimp, shrimp salad...

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[MatCauthon]

Engineering/business/and nursing at a community college. Some of the PA degrees and medical degrees that offer cheap in-state tuition are also useful. PharmD can still be a good deal at some in-state schools. My tuition was around 17k-- some schools are still cheaper than this.
Most of these private schools that charge 50k in tuition are big risks. The financial reward will be difficult without loan forgiveness.

 

[Chalupa_Batman86]

Shrimp soup, shrimp casserole, shrimp sandwich, shrimp gumbo, fried shrimp, shrimp salad...

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G890A using SDN mobile

I prefer to think of it as sweet potato fries, potato croquettes, potato salad.

Who gets sick of shrimp?? Red Lobster has the very cool annual all you can eat shrimp promo.

 

[knight on horse]

If you're brilliant then computer science, business, finance. Otherwise dentist (orthodontics) and doctor. Pharmacy is last resort