Blatantly Lying on Application and Getting Interviews?

[Saintman41]

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Just had an old classmate of mine reach out and see how my cycle is going. Turns out he has two interviews lined up with UTRGV and UTMB and directly told me how he made up the vast majority of his activities section. It's through TMDSAS and they don't really ask for contacts so it's mind blowing to see how this peer even made it this far without doing as much work as everyone else. Is this a growing trend or something?

 

[deleted760686]

I've never heard of someone blatantly making up activities like that. That's really annoying and unfair for other Texas applicants like us.

 

[EArlyBirdGetsTheWorm]

I’ve only heard of ppl padding their hours. It’s a risk you take though since they could potentially call your contacts. I think that they rarely do though.

 

[Happy Bulbis Cordis]

I've never heard of someone blatantly making up activities like that. That's really annoying and unfair for other Texas applicants like us.

You’ve never heard of that because most people who do that keep it to themselves. Let’s be real, with how TMDSAS activities section is set up and how competitive this process is, I bet the amount of people doing this is more than we think.

 

[charactercomic2]

People that lie will have a hard time talking about their experiences come interview time, I couldn't imagine making stuff up and just winging it as you go 😵

 

[reinforced]

People that lie will have a hard time talking about their experiences come interview time, I couldn't imagine making stuff up and just winging it as you go 😵

Yeah facts, it's not even like an hour exaggeration lol, they're making up whole ass stories about things they've never even done.

 

[2024 or 5 ?]

People lie all the time.

 

[deleted1144871]

And if they get caught lying about all that, their career in medicine is done for. Is it really a risk you want to take? Imagine being an MS3 and getting kicked out of school. Not worth it to me.

 

[General Kenobi!]

Act with integrity, regardless of what everyone else is doing. Remember what kind of person you want to be. What do you want to stand for?

Plus, you'll know that you've earned your spot in medical school, avoid the magnitude of imposter syndrome that they'd no doubt feel, and won't constantly worry that someone will find out.

Their actions will eventually catch up with them, even if they are not found out before receiving an acceptance. In my favorite line from the HBO series, Chernobyl, Dr. Legasov says, “Every lie we tell incurs a debt to the truth. Sooner or later, that debt is paid. That is how an RBMK reactor core explodes. Lies.” Lying in medicine will kill patients.

 

[PhD_to_DO]

Just had an old classmate of mine reach out and see how my cycle is going. Turns out he has two interviews lined up with UTRGV and UTMB and directly told me how he made up the vast majority of his activities section. It's through TMDSAS and they don't really ask for contacts so it's mind blowing to see how this peer even made it this far without doing as much work as everyone else. Is this a growing trend or something?

My wife sits on the admissions committee of an Arizona DO school and every now and again they catch a student who has made up a LOR or lied about some element of the application. These students rarely get thru to an acceptance. When you’ve been in admissions long enough, you develop a sense for bull****. On the off hsnd chance that you do make it thru to admissions, there is still a chance that you will be found out. As an example, one of my current/former classmates was just dismissed from our medical school because he was previously enrolled at UAG, failed out but did not report this when he applied via AACOMAS. Not sure of the particulars, but this goes to show that you need to be honest in your apps or you stand to lose everything. My advice? Don’t worry about what your friend is doing; focus on you and your app. One way or the other, your friend will be found out (esp. if they are running around talking about their deception!)

 

[cranberrylimeade]

I feel that it's evident in interviews when people make activities up. I can talk very passionately about activities that I did for years, but I don't think I could feign that same passion for something random.

 

[neurodoc]

"Just had an old classmate of mine reach out and see how my cycle is going. Turns out he has two interviews lined up with UTRGV and UTMB and directly told me how he made up the vast majority of his activities section."

I hope you realize that you just helped identify your old classmate to the folks at UTRGV and UTMB.

 

[Lost in Translation]

"Just had an old classmate of mine reach out and see how my cycle is going. Turns out he has two interviews lined up with UTRGV and UTMB and directly told me how he made up the vast majority of his activities section."

I hope you realize that you just helped identify your old classmate to the folks at UTRGV and UTMB.

All according to keikaku.

 

[Saintman41]

"Just had an old classmate of mine reach out and see how my cycle is going. Turns out he has two interviews lined up with UTRGV and UTMB and directly told me how he made up the vast majority of his activities section."

I hope you realize that you just helped identify your old classmate to the folks at UTRGV and UTMB.

I'm aware lol and don't see any issue in it, he chose to fabricate information for his benefit

 

[Just D.O. it]

Imagine being an MS3 and getting kicked out of school. Not worth it to me.

Yeah.... integrity is an important part of being a physician and working in fields like healthcare in general, but your rationale here is flat out silly. The chances of someone from the school randomly checking up on your extracurriculars as an MS3 are about the same as you getting struck by lightning, and even then you could have some plausible deniability that the volunteer coordinator or whoever simply forgot about you in 3 years. Plenty of places dont keep long term records of volunteers, hell most don't keep any.

Those stories you hear about people getting kicked out for false info on their apps usually are related to covering up criminal convictions, not finishing degrees they were supposed to, hiding transcripts, falsifying academic credentials, etc. . You're not getting kicked out as an MS3 because they can't verify your 50 hrs of volunteering at city general hospital.

 

[TragicalDrFaust]

As I’m starting OMS-3 I’m seeing that lying and cheating catches up to people. You can’t cheat on boards and other BS behavior is readily exposed on rotations when you’re observed constantly by the same preceptor.

It’s frustrating to think that people are getting an unfair advantage but in my experience they get their just desserts, at least in medicine. No comment on other professional jobs.

 

[deleted1144871]

Yeah.... integrity is an important part of being a physician and working in fields like healthcare in general, but your rationale here is flat out silly. The chances of someone from the school randomly checking up on your extracurriculars as an MS3 are about the same as you getting struck by lightning, and even then you could have some plausible deniability that the volunteer coordinator or whoever simply forgot about you in 3 years. Plenty of places dont keep long term records of volunteers, hell most don't keep any.

Those stories you hear about people getting kicked out for false info on their apps usually are related to covering up criminal convictions, not finishing degrees they were supposed to, hiding transcripts, falsifying academic credentials, etc. . You're not getting kicked out as an MS3 because they can't verify your 50 hrs of volunteering at city general hospital.

The situation OP presented was about someone making up most of their activities, not overestimating hospital volunteering by 50 hours.

 

[Just D.O. it]

The situation OP presented was about someone making up most of their activities, not overestimating hospital volunteering by 50 hours.

Ok, lets say the actual number of hospital volunteering was zero. Same deal applies, the vibe I'm getting from OPs story is it's volunteering and other undocumented and difficult to officially disprove years after the fact type of ECs. They don't seem to be doing any of the actual high risk things I described.

Again lying is bad, and integrity should be worth more than "I'm scared I'll get caught". If that's the only reason some of the other people aren't doing it, they're worse than OP's friend imo, immoral and cowards.

Maybe he will stumble over his words or misspeak at the interview, and its a high possibility it happens at some of the schools at least, but let's not let moral righteousness blind us from reality. If he gets past the interview and matriculates, 99.9% chance he is free of the consequences of his EC fabrications.

Bad people and bad actions are bad. I don't mean to disagree with anyone on this point, but at the same time, there is some really wishful thinking being done by suggesting said bad guys are always caught/punished.

 

[Goro]

Just had an old classmate of mine reach out and see how my cycle is going. Turns out he has two interviews lined up with UTRGV and UTMB and directly told me how he made up the vast majority of his activities section. It's through TMDSAS and they don't really ask for contacts so it's mind blowing to see how this peer even made it this far without doing as much work as everyone else. Is this a growing trend or something?

If this person is such a liar, why do you believe him about the interviews?

 

[deleted1144871]

Ok, lets say the actual number of hospital volunteering was zero. Same deal applies, the vibe I'm getting from OPs story is it's volunteering and other undocumented and difficult to officially disprove years after the fact type of ECs. They don't seem to be doing any of the actual high risk things I described.

Again lying is bad, and integrity should be worth more than "I'm scared I'll get caught". If that's the only reason some of the other people aren't doing it, they're worse than OP's friend imo, immoral and cowards.

Maybe he will stumble over his words or misspeak at the interview, and its a high possibility it happens at some of the schools at least, but let's not let moral righteousness blind us from reality. If he gets past the interview and matriculates, 99.9% chance he is free of the consequences of his EC fabrications.

Bad people and bad actions are bad. I don't mean to disagree with anyone on this point, but at the same time, there is some really wishful thinking being done by suggesting said bad guys are always caught/punished.

I agree.

 

[ZombieDante]

Just had an old classmate of mine reach out and see how my cycle is going. Turns out he has two interviews lined up with UTRGV and UTMB and directly told me how he made up the vast majority of his activities section. It's through TMDSAS and they don't really ask for contacts so it's mind blowing to see how this peer even made it this far without doing as much work as everyone else. Is this a growing trend or something?

If this person is such a liar, why do you believe him about the interviews?

This! Honestly, I didn't think about it until Goro said something. I have a premed friend who would lie ALL THE TIME. Like constantly. He had a good GPA, but that's about it. He would tell you he had so much more and all these connections and all the things he was doing. All lies. Acted like a big shot. He did eventually get into med school, a new DO school. Nothing wrong with that, but the way he talked about himself if you believed everything he should have gotten into a T20. Acted like everyone wanted him and he didn't want to go to our state MD school bc he wanted to be closer to his family in Florida (his med school is actually further away from there than our state school).

All that to say is that lairs are going to lie, nothing you can do about it. Even if it doesn't "catch up" with them it will constantly he a strain and struggle because the only way to support a lie is with another lie and the cycle continues. Just focus on you.

 

[jamaica jan sun princess]

In a similar vein, this reminds me of all the blatant cheating I witnessed while getting my biology degree. While earning my business admin degree, I really didn't see much cheating because the professors usually changed up questions every semester. However, on my first day of biochemistry during my first semester of graduate school, I remember a student in front of me sharing years worth of old exams, quizzes, and assignments with her possy of 5 or so friends. I looked her up the other day, she's now an M2 at a highly ranked and well regarded state school.

 

[karaya]

In a similar vein, this reminds me of all the blatant cheating I witnessed while getting my biology degree. While earning my business admin degree, I really didn't see much cheating because the professors usually changed up questions every semester. However, on my first day of biochemistry during my first semester of graduate school, I remember a student in front of me sharing years worth of old exams, quizzes, and assignments with her possy of 5 or so friends. I looked her up the other day, she's now an M2 at a highly ranked and well regarded state school.

Sharing old exams and quizzes is considered blatant cheating? It sounds like good practice to me. Most of my science professors released their old tests as study guides.

 

[DarkBluMage]

Sharing old exams and quizzes is considered blatant cheating? It sounds like good practice to me. Most of my science professors released their old tests as study guides.

Right? Like how is that cheating? They’re essentially practice questions to familiarize yourself with that professors question style at that point unless the professor is lazy and recycling the same questions. Either way it’s not cheating to have access to old exams/quizzes.

 

[PhD_to_DO]

Sharing old exams and quizzes is considered blatant cheating? It sounds like good practice to me. Most of my science professors released their old tests as study guides.

Depends on the school snd its policies; at my undergrad alma mater, our science professors did not release old exams, except for the chemistry dept. (they changed questions each term). If we were found sharing old exams / quizzes / HW assignments, it was considered a violation of the honor code. We weren’t even supposed share PowerPoints as they had a copyright notice on them.

 

[Mr.Smile12]

I just finished the documentary "Accepted" that is streaming/available on PBS that documented the rather controversial Beaux Bridge high school TM Landry (reviewed at Accepted teaches tough lessons about college paths ). It is fascinating as it captures the school just prior to COVID-19 reaching the peak of its publicity before crashing due to irregular practices including alleged transcript falsification. This coincided with the Varsity Blues investigation breakthrough.

Basically put, admissions is not going to be perfect in weeding out the liars and the cheaters. It's not designed that way.

 

[jamaica jan sun princess]

Right? Like how is that cheating? They’re essentially practice questions to familiarize yourself with that professors question style at that point unless the professor is lazy and recycling the same questions. Either way it’s not cheating to have access to old exams/quizzes.

Right? Like how is that cheating? They’re essentially practice questions to familiarize yourself with that professors question style at that point unless the professor is lazy and recycling the same questions. Either way it’s not cheating to have access to old exams/quizzes.

This this professor didn't change his questions and specifically mentioned in the syllabus that using old materials was considered cheating. These materials weren't provided by the professor to the class for prep.

I wish I'd gone to a school where using old exams and quizzes was acceptable. Instead of having to memorize every fact from hundreds of slides I could just memorize an old exam or two.

 

[DarkBluMage]

This this professor didn't change his questions and specifically mentioned in the syllabus that using old materials was considered cheating. These materials weren't provided by the professor to the class for prep.

I wish I'd gone to a school where using old exams and quizzes was acceptable. Instead of having to memorize every fact from hundreds of slides I could just memorize an old exam or two.

I still don’t consider that cheating. That’s the professors personal problem for being lazy. That’s on the professor for choosing to recycle questions.

 

[PhD_to_DO]

This this professor didn't change his questions and specifically mentioned in the syllabus that using old materials was considered cheating. These materials weren't provided by the professor to the class for prep.

I wish I'd gone to a school where using old exams and quizzes was acceptable. Instead of having to memorize every fact from hundreds of slides I could just memorize an old exam or two.

Even in my medical school, the use of previous exams, quizzes, and/or PowerPoints is considered cheating. There was a cheating scandal in the class ahead of mine; some 4th years had put together a flashdrive of old PowerPoints that high lighted high yield facts from previous years and shared it with the class ahead of mine. The pass rate for the final exam for one of their particular blocks was higher than normal, but a student failed. This student went to administration and told about the flashdrive. School started an investigation and a number of students were dismissed. My class had a stern talking too and as a result, the faculty stopped releasing the faculty version of PowerPoints to us and they’ve added a copyright notice to the student version of PowerPoints.

 

[DarkBluMage]

Even in my medical school, the use of previous exams, quizzes, and/or PowerPoints is considered cheating. There was a cheating scandal in the class ahead of mine; some 4th years had put together a flashdrive of old PowerPoints that high lighted high yield facts from previous years and shared it with the class ahead of mine. The pass rate for the final exam for one of their particular blocks was higher than normal, but a student failed. This student went to administration and told about the flashdrive. School started an investigation and a number of students were dismissed. My class had a stern talking too and as a result, the faculty stopped releasing the faculty version of PowerPoints to us and they’ve added a copyright notice to the student version of PowerPoints.

Were these internal exams? I don’t see how that’d be possible to do with nbme exams.
Our own professors will point out what’s high yield in regards to step 1 during class sometimes but that doesn’t automatically translate to doing well on an exam. You still have to understand that material through and through (histology, pathology, biochem of it, etc)

 

[PhD_to_DO]

Were these internal exams? I don’t see how that’d be possible to do with nbme exams.

These were PowerPoints that 3d and 4th years annotated with high yield facts. I’ve not seen them for myself so I can’t attest to the presence or absence of any exam questions, but my understanding is that there were no exam questions. These were just PowerPoints that highlighted the most commonly testable facts for Units 1-8 of our curriculum (All of our exams are essay exams). That said, there is a clear statement in our student handbook that says the use of such annotated PowerPoints is considered a breach of our honor code.

 

[DarkBluMage]

These were PowerPoints that 3d and 4th years annotated with high yield facts. I’ve not seen them for myself so I can’t attest to the presence or absence of any exam questions, but my understanding is that there were no exam questions. These were just PowerPoints that highlighted the most commonly testable facts for Units 1-8 of our curriculum (All of our exams are essay exams). That said, there is a clear statement in our student handbook that says the use of such annotated PowerPoints is considered a breach of our honor code.

I guess that makes more sense then. All of our exams are multiple choice nbme exams.

 

[PhD_to_DO]

I guess that makes more sense then. All of our exams are multiple choice nbme exams.

We just hired a new dean, came from COMP NW, and he has instituted MCQ exams; the class ahead of mine is moving to 100% MCQ exams and my class will have one of our three exam blocks made up of MCQs. As I understand it, questions will be drawn from COMBANK, possibly Kaplan, and NBOME. There is a student in my class who claims to have a jump drive of 17 NBME exams; claims to have gotten them from a student at a Caribbean med school. Not sure if its true or not but staying as far away from that **** as I can… Now that we’re moving to MCQs, it’ll be interesting to see how or if any students will try to game the system.

 

[DarkBluMage]

T

We just hired a new dean, came from COMP NW, and he has instituted MCQ exams; the class ahead of mine is moving to 100% MCQ exams and my class will have one of our three exam blocks made up of MCQs. As I understand it, questions will be drawn from COMBANK, possibly Kaplan, and NBOME. There is a student in my class who claims to have a jump drive of 17 NBME exams; claims to have gotten them from a student at a Caribbean med school. Not sure if its true or not but staying as far away from that **** as I can… Now that we’re moving to MCQs, it’ll be interesting to see how or if any students will try to game the system.

Those exams will simply be practice. No different than using kaplan or uworld or the few nbme exams that are given for free for students to practice for step. Nbme makes their own questions that the schools purchase. I doubt nbme reuses questions for new exam banks each year.

 

[PhD_to_DO]

T

Those exams will simply be practice. No different than using kaplan or uworld or the few nbme exams that are given for free for students to practice for step. Nbme makes their own questions that the schools purchase. I doubt nbme reuses questions for new exam banks each year.

I wouldn’t think so but I’d heard that students from AUA had gotten hold of a grip of NBME questions that their school was using for exams a few years back. Not saying that the student at my school has these, I wouldn’t know one way or the other, but just to keep my nose clean, I’m staying away from that.

 

[FairEver]

Just had an old classmate of mine reach out and see how my cycle is going. Turns out he has two interviews lined up with UTRGV and UTMB and directly told me how he made up the vast majority of his activities section. It's through TMDSAS and they don't really ask for contacts so it's mind blowing to see how this peer even made it this far without doing as much work as everyone else. Is this a growing trend or something?

Applicants use professional essay writers and essay editors. AAMC doesn’t validate activities including hours. Getting volunteering and research opportunities depend on applicants’ family background, networking, schools they attend and many other factors. These are all not fair . To make the process completely fair , we have to use only MCAT, minimum threshold GPA ( to remove the influence of grade inflation/deflation), essays written only in proctored environment by aamc just like mcat. Minimum number of clinical and hospital experience for exposure ( say 80 hours each). Service is important, but IMO it should come after medical school graduation for all graduates I.e. 2-4 years of mandatory service as physicians in rural and underrepresented areas with good pay. This will solve the doctor shortage in rural areas as well. Applicants need not do mundane stuff for years and years to beef up their application. They are meaningless and waste of time. We have other people to do those kind of things.

 

[DarkBluMage]

Applicants use professional essay writers and essay editors. AAMC doesn’t validate activities including hours. Getting volunteering and research opportunities depend on applicants’ family background, networking, schools they attend and many other factors. These are all not fair . To make the process completely fair , we have to use only MCAT, minimum threshold GPA ( to remove the influence of grade inflation/deflation), essays written only in proctored environment by aamc just like mcat. Minimum number of clinical and hospital experience for exposure ( say 80 hours each). Service is important, but IMO it should come after medical school graduation for all graduates I.e. 2-4 years of mandatory service as physicians in rural and underrepresented areas with good pay. This will solve the doctor shortage in rural areas as well. Applicants need not do mundane stuff for years and years to beef up their application. They are meaningless and waste of time. We have other people to do those kind of things.

Mandatory service in rural areas? I guess screw the doctors and their families huh? What makes you think that’s doable for everyone? Lmbo people have responsibilities outside of just being a doctor. Volunteering should be exactly what it’s supposed to be, voluntary.

 

[FairEver]

Mandatory service in rural areas? I guess screw the doctors and their families huh? What makes you think that’s doable for everyone? Lmbo people have responsibilities outside of just being a doctor. Volunteering should be exactly what it’s supposed to be, voluntary.

Adcoms repeatedly say that they look for applicants’ interest and commitment to serve underrepresented communities, right? Instead of doing mundane activities (both clinical and non clinical) for years before applying to medical school, I am saying we can ask them to serve in the rural areas and underserved areas for just a few years with good pay after becoming physicians. What is the difference? The number of clinical and non clinical hours applicants getting crazier and crazier, running into many thousands of hours. We can make it unnecessary when evaluating the applications.

 

[DarkBluMage]

Adcoms repeatedly say that they look for applicants’ interest and commitment to serve underrepresented communities, right? Instead of doing mundane activities (both clinical and non clinical) for years before applying to medical school, I am saying we can ask them to serve in the rural areas and underserved areas for just a few years with good pay after becoming physicians. What is the difference? The number of clinical and non clinical hours applicants getting crazier and crazier, running into many thousands of hours. We can make it unnecessary when evaluating the applications.

The difference is residency training after med school and that people can volunteer at their discretion in ways and at the times that work for them around their other responsibilities. Not everyone can ghost their families or responsibilities to work in a rural area for 2-4 years and even if they could they may not want to and they have the right to not do so if they don’t want to. This isn’t North Korea. Nobody is about to make me move somewhere to perform a “volunteer” service mandatorily like my needs or desires don’t matter.

 

[FairEver]

The difference is residency training after med school and that people can volunteer at their discretion in ways and at the times that work for them around their other responsibilities. Not everyone can ghost their families or responsibilities to work in a rural area for 2-4 years and even if they could they may not want to and they have the right to not do so if they don’t want to. This isn’t North Korea. Nobody is about to make me move somewhere to perform a “volunteer” service mandatorily like my needs or desires don’t matter.

Fair point. Thank you.

 

[Tyrosine1992]

My wife sits on the admissions committee of an Arizona DO school and every now and again they catch a student who has made up a LOR or lied about some element of the application. These students rarely get thru to an acceptance. When you’ve been in admissions long enough, you develop a sense for bull****. On the off hsnd chance that you do make it thru to admissions, there is still a chance that you will be found out. As an example, one of my current/former classmates was just dismissed from our medical school because he was previously enrolled at UAG, failed out but did not report this when he applied via AACOMAS. Not sure of the particulars, but this goes to show that you need to be honest in your apps or you stand to lose everything. My advice? Don’t worry about what your friend is doing; focus on you and your app. One way or the other, your friend will be found out (esp. if they are running around talking about their deception!)

Kinda scary, I'm planing to attend UAG, or SGU. I still haven't landed even an interview,