Board Qual/Cert and privileging as a new grad.

[med2345]

---

Members do not see this ad.

I’m a new grad starting a new job with affiliations at some local hospitals.

Longer story short - there’s one medical center in particular that mentioned ABFAS outright or privileges. Nothing else. Doesn’t seem to matter even if you’ve done 200 bunions / ankles / whatever cases ect in residency. Just states you need ABFAS qualified/cert for privileges. In my experience talking with my former classmates with jobs and starting to do cases this doesn’t seem to be the norm.
This is not a state where ABFAS are written in the laws (it is a state where it’s up to the tibial tuber for podiatry lisense).

Podiatry ABPM vs ABFAS politics aside, is this common? Even for the basic bread and butter bunions, hammertoes, midfoot arthritis/bread and butter stuff? I know there’s is mention of ABPM will fight for privileges but I didn’t want to make this about that topic, more asking if anyone else has seen this.

I understand every hospital is different and it’s their bylaws, but seems a bit unreasonable to have to bring cases all to another location, even the simple stuff every podiatrist can do. Most hospitals seem to taking training, cases, and qual/certs into consideration, if privileges granted initially with plans on qual/cert in the next years.

What have you guys seen/general consensus with newer grads?

Thanks

 

[Weirdy]

I’m a new grad starting a new job with affiliations at some local hospitals.

Longer story short - there’s one medical center in particular that mentioned ABFAS outright or privileges. Nothing else. Doesn’t seem to matter even if you’ve done 200 bunions / ankles / whatever cases ect in residency. Just states you need ABFAS qualified/cert for privileges. In my experience talking with my former classmates with jobs and starting to do cases this doesn’t seem to be the norm.
This is not a state where ABFAS are written in the laws (it is a state where it’s up to the tibial tuber for podiatry lisense).

Podiatry ABPM vs ABFAS politics aside, is this common? Even for the basic bread and butter bunions, hammertoes, midfoot arthritis/bread and butter stuff? I know there’s is mention of ABPM will fight for privileges but I didn’t want to make this about that topic, more asking if anyone else has seen this.

I understand every hospital is different and it’s there bylaws, but seems a bit unreasonable to have to bring cases all to another location, even the simple stuff every podiatrist can do. Most hospitals seem to taking training, cases, and qual/certs into consideration, if privileges granted initially with plans on qual/cert in the next years.

What have you guys seen/general consensus with newer grads?

Thanks

I see the same thing. Am 1 year out.
1 hospital said ABFAS or GTFO
1 hospital said ABFAS or ABPM and need certification within x amount of years

Both required case logs for privileges

ABFAS only one didn't let me do anything after looking at case log

I got ABPM really quick and have been taking cases to 2nd hospital.

3 other hospitals in the area- got on staff with case logs- all 3 said ABFAS or ABPM didn't matter.

Am in a state where I cannot go above ankle.

 

[med2345]

I see the same thing. Am 1 year out.
1 hospital said ABFAS or GTFO
1 hospital said ABFAS or ABPM and need certification within x amount of years

Both required case logs for privileges

ABFAS only one didn't let me do anything after looking at case log

I got ABPM really quick and have been taking cases to 2nd hospital.

3 other hospitals in the area- got on staff with case logs- all 3 said ABFAS or ABPM didn't matter.

Am in a state where I cannot go above ankle.

I feel like this is the norm, both are ok in most places with training being accounted for, so I was pretty surprised after this center essentially also said “ABFAS or GTFO”. Also considering it’s friendlier pod state, but it’s kind of a bummer pending ABFAS results.

Haven’t really heard any other medical surgical specialty being like this considering that’s what your surgical training is for, it always appears it’s x amount of years and your cases/training accreditations are the initial shoe-in but maybe I’m wrong/ignorant.

 

[Weirdy]

I feel like this is the norm, both are ok in most places with training being accounted for, so I was pretty surprised after this center essentially also said “ABFAS or GTFO”. Also considering it’s friendlier pod state, but it’s kind of a bummer pending ABFAS results.

Haven’t really heard any other medical surgical specialty being like this considering that’s what your surgical training is for, it always appears it’s x amount of years and your cases/training accreditations are the initial shoe-in but maybe I’m wrong/ignorant.

If you can get ABFAS, more power to you
Even if it doesn't get you anything more than what you would already be doing- you deal with less drama in the future if you end up looking for next job or step up

I just took path of least resistance to start seeing patients ASAP.
Have coresidents/classmates who are 3/4 ABFAS certed and wondering if its worth it to retake to get that last section.

Edit: Havn't seen this issue with other medicine or specialty boards either but that's a horse we've already beat to death on here. Knew that going in. Was just surprised to see it play out in real life last year once out of residency.

 

[med2345]

If you can get ABFAS, more power to you
Even if it doesn't get you anything more than what you would already be doing- you deal with less drama in the future if you end up looking for next job or step up

I just took path of least resistance to start seeing patients ASAP.
Have coresidents/classmates who are 3/4 ABFAS certed and wondering if its worth it to retake to get that last section.

Edit: Havn't seen this issue with other medicine or specialty boards either but that's a horse we've already beat to death on here. Knew that going in. Was just surprised to see it play out in real life last year once out of residency.

That’s always been my thought process, playing scenarios also just getting foot vs foot and RRA considering abysmal rearfoot didactic percentages for ABFAS.

Would like to get both for the future and my job has enough cases to get rearfoot cert eventually too pending passing the qual but it’s def depressing to see it play out after youre done dying for 3 years and being told “nah”.

 

[heybrother]

I wonder what nefarious villain would make ABFAS mandatory in a hospital.

*see airbud's memes.

Anyway, the best revenge is to show up and do great cases efficiently and profitably.

 

[Stormblest]

Literally never failed an exam before ABFAS RRA didactic. I’m not willing to pay to try and pass it. Fine with getting ABPM and trying for ABFAS foot at this point.

 

[med2345]

Literally never failed an exam before ABFAS RRA didactic. I’m not willing to pay to try and pass it. Fine with getting ABPM and trying for ABFAS foot at this point.

if it doesn’t affect what you can do I can’t blame you. You definitely aren’t the only one in the exact same boat

 

[air bud]

Literally never failed an exam before ABFAS RRA didactic. I’m not willing to pay to try and pass it. Fine with getting ABPM and trying for ABFAS foot at this point.

This is dumb. Just do it. Nobody is asking your for a kidney. I failed it twice. Wait didactic is the exam not the cases right? Yeah I failed it twice. So what. Board wizards like we talked about on here and passed 3rd time. Passed foot didactic, rear foot cases first time. Foot cases 2nd time.

 

[Bored Snorlax]

This is dumb. Just do it. Nobody is asking your for a kidney. I failed it twice. Wait didactic is the exam not the cases right? Yeah I failed it twice. So what. Board wizards like we talked about on here and passed 3rd time. Passed foot didactic, rear foot cases first time. Foot cases 2nd time.

How many memes did board wizards pay you

 

[heybrother]

You want a real bummer. I did all of the boards wizards CBPS cases. I put in time and energy drawing out cases and going through the order sets line by line. I took the part 2 CBPS after passing the first didactic/CBPS 4/4. I found it super easy. Found all the hidden bullcrap. As I walked out the guy at the desk said "How do you think you did" and I said "Crushed it, never coming here again." And then I f&*(ing failed after taking 2 days off work and probably losing $4-8K in collections and however many thousand dollars the test costs.

And some ABFAS booster came on here and said everyone passed.

Spent a year saying no point taking it because my facilities are fine with ABPM, but decided wtf - why bother doing all these fusions. Didn't do board wizards for round 2. 2 nights before I did the ABFAS cases online. They are garbage and if you really look through them there are so many errors and inconsistencies. Took the test. Felt hard as hell. And then passed. Felt like I got good cases selection for my cases, but I had a few complications and for all of my complication cases I had brought them back to the OR and fixed them.

So when I tell you that I am simultaneously certified and hate ABFAS - believe me. But now that I am - essentially everyone in my town (except hilariously the hospital employed guy) is ABFAS. My partner didn't even know what ABPM is. Wouldn't be a stretch for the town to have gatekeeping in the future.

 

[med2345]

You want a real bummer. I did all of the boards wizards CBPS cases. I put in time and energy drawing out cases and going through the order sets line by line. I took the part 2 CBPS after passing the first didactic/CBPS 4/4. I found it super easy. Found all the hidden bullcrap. As I walked out the guy at the desk said "How do you think you did" and I said "Crushed it, never coming here again." And then I f&*(ing failed after taking 2 days off work and probably losing $4-8K in collections and however many thousand dollars the test costs.

And some ABFAS booster came on here and said everyone passed.

Spent a year saying no point taking it because my facilities are fine with ABPM, but decided wtf - why bother doing all these fusions. Didn't do board wizards for round 2. 2 nights before I did the ABFAS cases online. They are garbage and if you really look through them there are so many errors and inconsistencies. Took the test. Felt hard as hell. And then passed. Felt like I got good cases selection for my cases, but I had a few complications and for all of my complication cases I had brought them back to the OR and fixed them.

So when I tell you that I am simultaneously certified and hate ABFAS - believe me. But now that I am - essentially everyone in my town (except hilariously the hospital employed guy) is ABFAS. My partner didn't even know what ABPM is. Wouldn't be a stretch for the town to have gatekeeping in the future.

I think CBPS can be misleading because people forget it’s just about accumulating the most points for each part of the exam. You can nail every treatment and follow up and still fail because of an improper work up missing points/leaving points on the table there. Essentially being too confident can bite you. You have to just play it as a game getting the most points for every tab. I never thought the CBPS was too difficult and got above 500 as a 2nd year. Even at that point, knowing how the exam really worked.

The didactic poopshoots of 80 “best answer” questions on the other hand 🤷🏽…
Well I guess it’s reflected in last years 55% RRA didactic pass.

 

[Hybrocure]

Out of residency I got on staff at multiple hospitals without board qual. They just wanted to know that I was “in process” of getting board certified and they give you X amount of years to get it done. I did have to show them my residency case logs. I ended up getting ABFAS qualified the next testing cycle

 

[med2345]

Out of residency I got on staff at multiple hospitals without board qual. They just wanted to know that I was “in process” of getting board certified and they give you X amount of years to get it done. I did have to show them my residency case logs. I ended up getting ABFAS qualified the next testing cycle

Yeah, I felt like that’s what is typical and what I’ve heard with colleagues which is why I was a little surprised, but atleast this appears to be the norm

 

[Feli]

You guys are missing the point here:

Your job/work situation right now will probably NOT be the job/work situation forever.

Keep every option you can.
Pass every cert that you can (ABFAS).
Don't leave any reason for hospitals to limit you or your CV to be inferior to others in a job search.
Don't do it. If you give it a good try and truly can't pass, ok... but don't stop trying.

Unless you are PP owner/partner, you might change jobs. Statistically, it is VERY likely that you'll change. Even some owner/partners change locations or jobs. It happens. Doctors' careers are frequently 30-35+ years... maybe 40+ with student loan burdens and/or because podiatry???

Even if it's a "stable" employed podiatry job that you like, seemingly cool boss, or VA/IHS etc, things can change. It has happened to me and nearly any SDN member who is out a bit into practice. VAMC funding had winds of change blowing how many times... twice in the just the last year or two??? Hospitals and even hospital systems get bought out every month, and admins change. Private practice and supergroups obviously pivot based on economy, and you have about 600+ DPMs coming out every year who will do your job for less if they like the area. 🙂

Just because you got privileges without board qual/cert X or got current job Y without it, that doesn't mean it'll be that way forever. Just because you heard of some guy who talked a small rural hospital into hiring with just ABPM, that doesn't mean it's going to work for you. You most likely will be in the job hunt again. Bylaws can also change. It also does not hurt for marketing to be boarded for pod surg when you do pod surg. Use your head. Think long term. Careers are long.

 

[Retrograde_Nail]

Always get ABFAS. There is gate keeping. Doesn't matter the state's scope. It matters who the podiatrist is in that town and how much of a stronghold they have on the area. These are the facts. The northeast is terrible about this in particular. Why? Because it is so densely populated with DPMs that its the only way they can control the money. Make it harder for others to practice. It's a simple concept.

 

[Sole Badguy]

I'm only ABPM certified at this time, but I have gotten limited privileges at the hospitals I do surgeries at with ABPM cert+residency case log review; pretty much all forefoot and midfoot type surgeries, very limited/simple rearfoot i.e. pus bus, tendon lengthening, etc.
I'm OK with this. That's the way it should be IMO. These are simple cases. Bigger cases ought to have reassurance of ABFAS qual/cert.
In short, you gotta play the game with the rules currently in play. Do what the hospitals want.
But also remember, podiatry's got a crappy ROI. Don't invest more mental energy than you need to get where you want/need to be.
Good luck to you 👍

 

[Hybrocure]

I'm only ABPM certified at this time, but I have gotten limited privileges at the hospitals I do surgeries at with ABPM cert+residency case log review; pretty much all forefoot and midfoot type surgeries, very limited/simple rearfoot i.e. pus bus, tendon lengthening, etc.
I'm OK with this. That's the way it should be IMO. These are simple cases. Bigger cases ought to have reassurance of ABFAS qual/cert.
In short, you gotta play the game with the rules currently in play. Do what the hospitals want.
But also remember, podiatry's got a crappy ROI. Don't invest more mental energy than you need to get where you want/need to be.
Good luck to you 👍

Why bother with a 3 year surgery residency and passing 3 boards during school if a hospital still won’t let you do a bunion or amp a toe with those credentials alone.

If you wanna do trauma, a triple, an ankle fusion, TAR, etc I get wanting ABFAS for hospital. But our “training” and basic boards should be enough for hospitals to allow you to do the bread and butter stuff

 

[air bud]

Why bother with a 3 year surgery residency and passing 3 boards during school if a hospital still won’t let you do a bunion or amp a toe with those credentials alone.

If you wanna do trauma, a triple, an ankle fusion, TAR, etc I get wanting ABFAS for hospital. But our “training” and basic boards should be enough for hospitals to allow you to do the bread and butter stuff

Sir please cruise on over to r/bunions and check out the bread and butter