Bombed the MCAT after my 3rd try. Need major advice

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Try DO. MD is not a viable option given your repeated attempts and the current competition.

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Member 238625 said:
Hey guys, first post. I'll just cut to the chase.

I graduated in 2012 from a top public university in CA with a 3.3 cGPA, and a 3.0 sGPA. I know, it sucks. I spent most of my time with extracurriculars such as volunteering, campus groups, clinical and lab research (no publications).

I took the MCAT for the first time my junior year and got a 24 (8V 8P 8B)
The second time was my senior year, and got a 21 (9V 7P 5B)
The third time was a month ago, and I got a 23 (8V 8P 7B)
I was hoping to at least break 30 and apply to SMPs right away (I was scoring 32-34 on the official practice tests). But life just shafted me with a 23.

I talked to a friend and she said it might just be my test day stress that caused me to score low on the test each time, because I was prepared and felt great going in, especially this last time when I was getting around 32-34 on the practice tests


What the hell am I supposed to do?

-Do I retake it for the 4th time sometime in April?
-Do I apply right now to SMPs with my current scores and send in my MCAT from a later date?
-Do I just apply straight to the Caribbean with my 3.3 GPA and 24 on the 2011 MCAT? (would that even get me into the Caribbean?)

I have never been more lost in my life. I need help. Thanks!
Click to expand...

Research osteopathic medicine, breathe it, bleed it, believe it. Then, apply to DO schools. Next, don't stress out about your interviews and nail them. Next, accept an offer of acceptance from the school you like the best. Go to med school, make good grades, graduate with a Doctorate of Osteopathic Medicine. Be the best doctor you can be and enjoy life.
 
EvAnBr said:
Research osteopathic medicine, breathe it, bleed it, believe it. Then, apply to DO schools. Next, don't stress out about your interviews and nail them. Next, accept an offer of acceptance from the school you like the best. Go to med school, make good grades, graduate with a Doctorate of Osteopathic Medicine. Be the best doctor you can be and enjoy life.
Click to expand...

This requires actually getting interviews. A 3.0 and three consecutive MCATs in the low 20s probably makes getting interviews anywhere impossible.
 
Choices:

1) Do something else.

2) Try to squeak into a DO school. There isn't a score that will get you into an MD school at this point, unless your state school is at the bottom of the MD list, and you're on the low side of DO.

3) Go to the Caribbean, take on enormous quantities of debt, and try to gun your way into a non-competitive residency in the US (like family medicine) while being fully aware that statistics are heavily against you being able to do it. Accept that you'll probably be paying off that debt until you're 50. This is your worst option.

4) Do a masters/PhD-type degree, and bust your ass to produce great work. Put several years between you and your current MCAT scores. In 5-6 years, try it over. This is probably your second worst option.
 
LizzyM said:
What would your alternate career plan be if medical school were not an option?

.
.
.
.
.
.
.

Do that.
Click to expand...

BURN

but probably realistic. If two years of studying can't pull you over a 25, I'm not sure what a fourth round can do. Have you thought of PA school? PA is actually a pretty sweet deal as a profession.
 
Member 238625 said:
Hey guys, first post. I'll just cut to the chase.

I graduated in 2012 from a top public university in CA with a 3.3 cGPA, and a 3.0 sGPA. I know, it sucks. I spent most of my time with extracurriculars such as volunteering, campus groups, clinical and lab research (no publications).

I took the MCAT for the first time my junior year and got a 24 (8V 8P 8B)
The second time was my senior year, and got a 21 (9V 7P 5B)
The third time was a month ago, and I got a 23 (8V 8P 7B)
I was hoping to at least break 30 and apply to SMPs right away (I was scoring 32-34 on the official practice tests). But life just shafted me with a 23.

I talked to a friend and she said it might just be my test day stress that caused me to score low on the test each time, because I was prepared and felt great going in, especially this last time when I was getting around 32-34 on the practice tests


What the hell am I supposed to do?

-Do I retake it for the 4th time sometime in April?
-Do I apply right now to SMPs with my current scores and send in my MCAT from a later date?
-Do I just apply straight to the Caribbean with my 3.3 GPA and 24 on the 2011 MCAT? (would that even get me into the Caribbean?)

I have never been more lost in my life. I need help. Thanks!
Click to expand...

Are you taking timed practice tests?

Try Podiatry school... You're very competitive for podiatry, and you'd still be able to do medicine. They can even do some surgeries. There are a lot of alternative healthcare fields. If you really want to be a DO/MD, I'd try DO.

And I'd honestly retake the MCAT. I don't know that DOs really care how often you take it.

You need to really reevaluate what is going wrong because otherwise you are just wasting your time and your money.
 
Oogieboogie said:
Are you taking timed practice tests?

Try Podiatry school... You're very competitive for podiatry, and you'd still be able to do medicine. They can even do some surgeries. There are a lot of alternative healthcare fields. If you really want to be a DO/MD, I'd try DO.

And I'd honestly retake the MCAT. I don't know that DOs really care how often you take it.

You need to really reevaluate what is going wrong because otherwise you are just wasting your time and your money.
Click to expand...

Osteopathic students have to pass a giant multi-step board exam as well.
 
Member 238625 said:
Thanks for the input, are my numbers even somewhat competitive for DO?
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Ish.... Go over to pre-osteo and check the underdog threads. The fact that you took it so many times and didnt even hit 25 might be the end all....even at DO schools. Maybe contact some of the osteopathic schools, mostly the new or "lower tier" schools and see what they have to say.
 
Member 238625 said:
Thanks for the input, are my numbers even somewhat competitive for DO?
Click to expand...
If you apply to the newer schools, rocky vista, lincoln memorial, william carey, campbell, alabama, virginia/south carolina you've got you're best shots. the older, more prestigious, or state run schools, you're not looking good. sinombre is right, your science gpa hurts you. your mcat is workable in a REALLY GOOD application. If you're set on applying asap, i'd look at those schools (wisconsin is getting a new one too). depending on your EC's you may get an ii, you may not. Podiatry and PA are good options if you want to do medicine. They are both highly increasing professions. A post-bac program to up your gpa and pad your application would be a good option too.
 
rachelkj said:
BURN

but probably realistic. If two years of studying can't pull you over a 25, I'm not sure what a fourth round can do. Have you thought of PA school? PA is actually a pretty sweet deal as a profession.
Click to expand...

Not really a burn really...very realistic. No use dumping thousands of dollars into something that's likely not gonna happen. Being a doctor probably isn't gonna happen for you, but there are plenty of good careers out there that would be more than happy to have you.
 
I don't think MD is an option. Your gpa is low, and the multiple low MCAT scores will be a major problem.

With grade replacement and an improved MCAT score, DO may be an option, but I still think it is an uphill battle.

Unfortunately, I feel that LizzyM's advice is the best.
 
VinceViegel said:
Wow I did not expect that from you. Shouldn't you be encouraging him to work hard and retake one more time to get 30+?
Click to expand...

Highly unlikely that someone will get a <25 three times and then a 30+.

A 22 is the 28th-33rd percentile. A 33 is the 88th-91st percentile.
 
MedPR said:
Highly unlikely that someone will get a <25 three times and then a 30+.

A 22 is the 28th-33rd percentile. A 33 is the 88th-91st percentile.
Click to expand...

Unfortunately, this.
 
I would seriously consider another profession. You will have many much harder standardized tests in your future if you become a medical student. It would suck to go through all of med 1 and 2 just to fail step 1/osteo boards.

The combo of low MCAT/low GPA is a killer. Look at other career fields.
 
MedPR said:
Highly unlikely that someone will get a <25 three times and then a 30+.

A 22 is the 28th-33rd percentile. A 33 is the 88th-91st percentile.
Click to expand...

Ost3oclast said:
Unfortunately, this.
Click to expand...


With that said, however, getting into the mid 20s is a reasonable goal and mid 20s is fine for DO.
 
MedPR said:
With that said, however, getting into the mid 20s is a reasonable goal and mid 20s is fine for DO.
Click to expand...

Yeah but after 4 attempts? The score wouldnt be a problem, but how many tries might raise flags.
 
Ost3oclast said:
Yeah but after 4 attempts? The score wouldnt be a problem, but how many tries might raise flags.
Click to expand...

Yeah I'm not sure how that goes. Worth a try imo.
 
OP,

Do you want it bad enough? Listen, I had the hardest time scoring above a 23 on the MCAT at first. My first official score was a 25. I had to slap myself in the face with the cold water of reality and tell myself "drastically reshape the way you study, or pick another career to pursue." I chose to study. I pretended I was 17 years old again, relearned all of the key concepts, and forgot the idiotic preconceived notions of inadequacy. This test is NOT too hard for you. You are, in all likelihood, plenty intelligent enough to score a 30. I had people showing me statistics and telling me how unlikely it was to jump 5-7 points into the competitive range. But I did it: relearned a lot of material from scratch, practiced until I wanted to puke, and scored a 31.

In this thread, you've got a medical school admissions person basically telling you it won't happen. She knows 10,000x more than me about medical school admission. You believe her? I hope it's a chip on your shoulder.

Average MCAT score at WVSOM (a DO school) is something like 25. Average MCAT school for podiatry school (there are only like 9 of them in the country) is in the low 20s.
 
EarthtoneJon said:
OP,

Do you want it bad enough? Listen, I had the hardest time scoring above a 23 on the MCAT at first. My first official score was a 25. I had to slap myself in the face with the cold water of reality and tell myself "drastically reshape the way you study, or pick another career to pursue." I chose to study. I pretended I was 17 years old again, relearned all of the key concepts, and forgot the idiotic preconceived notions of inadequacy. This test is NOT too hard for you. You are, in all likelihood, plenty intelligent enough to score a 30. I had people showing me statistics and telling me how unlikely it was to jump 5-7 points into the competitive range. But I did it: relearned a lot of material from scratch, practiced until I wanted to puke, and scored a 31.

In this thread, you've got a medical school admissions person basically telling you it won't happen. You believe her? I hope it's a chip on your shoulder.
Click to expand...


This is good advice and at times serves as motivation for me. A lot of people don't have that mentality though and perceive stuff like this as unrealistic/undeserved negativity. Those people, unfortunately, are going to have a lot of adjusting to do if/when they get to med school.
 
Many DO schools only look at your best score. If you were talented enough, you could play the 4 attempts in your favor by being a testament to your hard work and perseverance to achieve your goals.

It's definitely worth a try in the long run.
 
MCAT is far from the most difficult exam you'll take on the road to getting paid to be a doctor, so I agree with the general sentiment above that re-thinking the MD/DO route might be wise.
 
I'm usually an eternal optimist but retaking the test a 4th time is unlikely to yield success. You can try DO schools (all you have to lose is time and money) but that is an uphill battle. Don't go carribean, its not worth the angst. PA school? Podiatry? Nursing with the thought of becoming a NP? More viable options.

Good luck

Survivor DO
 
LizzyM said:
What would your alternate career plan be if medical school were not an option?

.
.
.
.
.
.
.

Do that.
Click to expand...

I think I liked the old LizzyM (aka Sue Sylvester) over this new LizzyM (aka M)... A post like this coming from Sue seems a lot less mean than it does from M.

Anyone else agree with me? :laugh:



But seriously, OP, you can try applying DO and see how it goes, but the reality is you should probably start thinking about a different career.
 
I was talking to an adcom member from a DO school and they've had people who have taken the MCAT 4-5 times and eventually nailed it and then got in. Of course, they had SUBSTANTIAL other things to make up for the repeated attempts...

You might also want to look for DO schools who will make a composite MCAT score from your highest subsection scores. Yours would be 8+9+8 = 25. Not great, but better than all the other scores you have.

So I would study your a** off for a 4th retake, noting that if you don't do well this time around, you might as well give up. Aim for at least a 30, and then make sure that EVERYTHING else in your application makes up for it.
 
Bearstronaut said:
Choices:

1) Do something else.

2) Try to squeak into a DO school. There isn't a score that will get you into an MD school at this point, unless your state school is at the bottom of the MD list, and you're on the low side of DO.

3) Go to the Caribbean, take on enormous quantities of debt, and try to gun your way into a non-competitive residency in the US (like family medicine) while being fully aware that statistics are heavily against you being able to do it. Accept that you'll probably be paying off that debt until you're 50. This is your worst option.

4) Do a masters/PhD-type degree, and bust your ass to produce great work. Put several years between you and your current MCAT scores. In 5-6 years, try it over. This is probably your second worst option.
Click to expand...

I would do 2. If that didn't work, 4. If that didn't work, 1. I would never do 3.

OP is also from CA, meaning the chances of a state school acceptance near impossible. Go OOS for your grad school if you decide to do that.
 
Member 238625 said:
Hey guys, first post. I'll just cut to the chase.

I graduated in 2012 from a top public university in CA with a 3.3 cGPA, and a 3.0 sGPA. I know, it sucks. I spent most of my time with extracurriculars such as volunteering, campus groups, clinical and lab research (no publications).

I took the MCAT for the first time my junior year and got a 24 (8V 8P 8B)
The second time was my senior year, and got a 21 (9V 7P 5B)
The third time was a month ago, and I got a 23 (8V 8P 7B)
I was hoping to at least break 30 and apply to SMPs right away (I was scoring 32-34 on the official practice tests). But life just shafted me with a 23.

I talked to a friend and she said it might just be my test day stress that caused me to score low on the test each time, because I was prepared and felt great going in, especially this last time when I was getting around 32-34 on the practice tests


What the hell am I supposed to do?

-Do I retake it for the 4th time sometime in April?
-Do I apply right now to SMPs with my current scores and send in my MCAT from a later date?
-Do I just apply straight to the Caribbean with my 3.3 GPA and 24 on the 2011 MCAT? (would that even get me into the Caribbean?)

I have never been more lost in my life. I need help. Thanks!
Click to expand...
Are you reusing practice exams in these attempts or is that average of 32-34 prior to your most recent attempt based solely on exams you had never seen before?

Are you taking the exams timed and closed notebook?(ie MCAT conditions)
 
BABSstudent said:
I would do 2. If that didn't work, 4. If that didn't work, 1. I would never do 3.

OP is also from CA, meaning the chances of a state school acceptance near impossible. Go OOS for your grad school if you decide to do that.
Click to expand...

I think that CA also has some nice post-bacc programs e.g. http://meded.ucsf.edu/outreach/eligibility but they may primarily target disadvantaged applicants.

I think LizzyM's advice is good, it should take some pressure off to think about other options. IMO it does not mean that you have to give up just yet. :luck: either way.
 
V5RED said:
Are you reusing practice exams in these attempts or is that average of 32-34 prior to your most recent attempt based solely on exams you had never seen before?

Are you taking the exams timed and closed notebook?(ie MCAT conditions)
Click to expand...

Wondering this as well. I have trouble buying a 10 point drop from practice averages to the real thing.
 
LizzyM said:
What would your alternate career plan be if medical school were not an option?

.
.
.
.
.
.
.

Do that.
Click to expand...

Ok when people post something like this... I mean are they saying it's impossible within 2yrs, impossible within 4yrs, impossible within 6yrs, impossible within 10yrs or impossible no matter how much time....?

I mean your numbers are not good but if you have no other agenda in life (not worried about normal "moving on" stuff like marriage, kids, house etc...) then I find it hard to believe that it is really impossible. It may take a lot of time, yes. But I mean come on...what if you kept up your ECs and like re-did UG or I mean i dunno. I just think it's almost never impossible.

I'm not saying you have to be down for that kind of uphill battle or that you shouldn't look at something else or anything like that... I'm just sayin'
 
What are the average stats for lower end DO schools? Just curious.
 
Last edited:
Member 238625 said:
graduated, 2012, top public university in CA,3.3 cGPA, 3.0 sGPA.
extracurriculars: volunteering, campus groups, clinical and lab research (no publications).

I took the MCAT for the first time my junior year and got a 24 (8V 8P 8B)
The second time was my senior year, and got a 21 (9V 7P 5B)
The third time was a month ago, and I got a 23 (8V 8P 7B)!
Click to expand...

Science gpa 3.0 (B) and overall gpa 3.3 (B+)
Three MCATs and the two more recent tries were lower than the first. Average is 22.7 and avg 8.3V, 7.6 P, 6.7B.

There is nothing in this narrative that suggests that a fourth attempt is going to be very different than the first three.

Almost a year after college graduation, I feel that the OP needs to make an assessment of strengths and interests and develop a realistic career plan that, in all likelihood, does not include attending an MD school.
 
MedPR said:
Welcome back
Click to expand...

👍 no fanfare thread to greet me like you had, but I suppose this'll do.

And I see in the meantime you have already set your eyes on bigger and better things. But keep in mind you will have to wait to speshulize until after you get your MD :naughty:
 
EvAnBr said:
Research osteopathic medicine, breathe it, bleed it, believe it. Then, apply to DO schools. Next, don't stress out about your interviews and nail them. Next, accept an offer of acceptance from the school you like the best. Go to med school, make good grades, graduate with a Doctorate of Osteopathic Medicine. Be the best doctor you can be and enjoy life.
Click to expand...

Yes 🙂
 
MedPR said:
Idk, you probably had a hand in this http://forums.studentdoctor.net/showthread.php?t=985951 :naughty:😀
Click to expand...

Hadn't seen that :laugh:. maybe... I would argue that I am nearly always posting related to the OP and at times that appear derailed it is usually related to how someone else has failed to grasp the intricacies of the OP :naughty: But I'm also not a mod so my interpretation of such things are to be taken with a grain of salt.

But given that this is apparently a thing now.....
OP you should try applying to DO schools. Your stats are a bit low but it isn't out of the question. In the meantime I would work on either plan B or plan A.5 (meaning something else that may lead back into medicine but that isn't a complete waste of time if it doesn't happen). Research, MPH, basically something gainful, productive, and in line with what you want in life.
 
VinceViegel said:
Around 3.3 GPA and 24-25-ish MCAT
Click to expand...

The OP has a chance. He needs to retake courses and he needs to try hard to make sure he can score better.
But if he seems to be scoring 30s on practice tests and then 23s on the real one, well that's odd and might represent a problem.
You probably have by now a self-defeating attitude and panicked which sank your chances for the 3rd try.
 
LizzyM said:
What would your alternate career plan be if medical school were not an option?

.
.
.
.
.
.
.

Do that.
Click to expand...

LizzyM is correct. Sorry OP, but a sub-30 score three times in a row and a low GPA means that medical school isn't for you.
 
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