Book vs. paper?

[EpictetusInATightSpot]

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Hello. My friend is in a bit of a bind, and they asked me to ask you this so they would be anonymous. If a book is published by a scientific publisher, and it integrates the results of many experiments to formulate and test the validity of novel hypotheses, is it a citable source? Is it as credible as a paper in a journal? In other words, would it be "on the record"?

Secondarily, how would writing a book and a scientific publisher agreeing to publish it (but probably not having it published by the time of applying) compare to the boost to their pre-medical application of getting a paper published?

Thirdly, if it's a book accepted for publication but not yet published, how would they list it on their application? If it it's a finished paper not yet accepted for publication, could they even put it on their application? No, right? Is there an appropriate way to include the abstract on the app in either of these circumstances?

My friend said it's basically a narrative review hypothesis paper that they didn't want to shorten any more than they had already because the disease is infinitely complex, and what's needed is an attempt to see the whole elephant to figure out what to do about it. Personally, I told them to read Moby Dick to see how that kind of approach typically works out, but anyway.

Answers to any of these questions would be greatly appreciated!

 

[Catalystik]

1) My friend is in a bit of a bind, and they asked me to ask you this so they would be anonymous. If a book is published by a scientific publisher, and it integrates the results of many experiments to formulate and test the validity of novel hypotheses, is it a citable source? Is it as credible as a paper in a journal? In other words, would it be "on the record"?

2) how would writing a book and a scientific publisher agreeing to publish it (but probably not having it published by the time of applying) compare to the boost to their pre-medical application of getting a paper published?

3a) if it's a book accepted for publication but not yet published, how would they list it on their application?
3b) If it it's a finished paper not yet accepted for publication, could they even put it on their application? No, right?
3c) Is there an appropriate way to include the abstract on the app in either of these circumstances?

My friend said it's basically a narrative review hypothesis paper that they didn't want to shorten any more than they had already because the disease is infinitely complex, and what's needed is an attempt to see the whole elephant to figure out what to do about it. Personally, I told them to read Moby Dick to see how that kind of approach typically works out, but anyway.

Answers to any of these questions would be greatly appreciated!

You're leaving out a lot of information:

1) What is your friends' contribution to the book? Did he/she assist in the "many experiments," or merely act as a copy editor after someone else wrote the book, or something in between? Did they write a chapter or the whole book? Will your friend's name be on the cover as an author?

A published book is a citable work, it is on the record, but it is not as "credible" as an original research publication in a peer-reviewed paper journal, as it is not generally peer-reviewed, even if published by a scientific publisher.

2) Publishing a paper based on one's original research over which one had significant creative input trumps writing a book based on someone else's work. A published review paper based on someone else's research has less cachet, but is still of benefit to an application.

3a) They would cite it as [in press], assuming they had proof of the book's acceptance and publication was imminent. If a book is accepted for publication provided major revisions are made, should not be listed.
3b) They should not. It adds zero value to the application.
3c) If a) they could summarize the book in the rest of the space after citing it in a Publications space. If b) and there was an associated research endeavor, a one-sentence blurb could be added in the Research space. If there is no affiliated Research space, the affiliated project would be discussed in a space tagged "Other."

Again, there is a lot of missing information that makes a precise answer impossible. Why is your friend "in a bind?"

 

[EpictetusInATightSpot]

Thank you, @Catalystik.

1. They wrote the entire thing. None of the experiments reviewed in it were performed by my friend. Their name would be on the cover.

They're in a bind because they spent most of their time the past year and a quarter learning and writing about this disease, and their single-minded focus led them to not do nearly as much to improve their application as they had planned to.

 

[Goro]

Thank you, @Catalystik.

1. They wrote the entire thing. None of the experiments reviewed in it were performed by my friend. Their name would be on the cover.

They're in a bind because they spent most of their time the past year and a quarter learning and writing about this disease, and their single-minded focus led them to not do nearly as much to improve their application as they had planned to.

Who is the publisher? Reputable? Or a vanity press?

 

[EpictetusInATightSpot]

@Goro, I will ask them and caution them about this. Let's say it would be a reputable publisher.

 

[Catalystik]

What are your friend's academic credentials? Does anyone with greater scientific gravitas have an affiliation with the review project, or is it a solo effort?

 

[EpictetusInATightSpot]

@Catalystik, my friend has essentially no academic credentials. I think she's a college graduate, and that's it. There is a coauthor who is a medical doctor, but the coauthor also has essentially no prior research experience. No one with any gravitas has their name on the project, although I think multiple researchers have helped them here and there.

 

[EpictetusInATightSpot]

Don't worry about my friend. I think they'll be fine. I talked to them just now, and apparently they did improve their application in some ways, just not as much as they would have otherwise. Plus, they knew what the risks were, and they accepted that in part because this mattered more to them than getting into an MD school. I think they've got enough to get into at least one DO school, and that's all they need. So they're happy with the outcome. Thank you guys for your advice!

 

[EpictetusInATightSpot]

You're leaving out a lot of information:

1) What is your friends' contribution to the book? Did he/she assist in the "many experiments," or merely act as a copy editor after someone else wrote the book, or something in between? Did they write a chapter or the whole book? Will your friend's name be on the cover as an author?

A published book is a citable work, it is on the record, but it is not as "credible" as an original research publication in a peer-reviewed paper journal, as it is not generally peer-reviewed, even if published by a scientific publisher.

2) Publishing a paper based on one's original research over which one had significant creative input trumps writing a book based on someone else's work. A published review paper based on someone else's research has less cachet, but is still of benefit to an application.

3a) They would cite it as [in press], assuming they had proof of the book's acceptance and publication was imminent. If a book is accepted for publication provided major revisions are made, should not be listed.
3b) They should not. It adds zero value to the application.
3c) If a) they could summarize the book in the rest of the space after citing it in a Publications space. If b) and there was an associated research endeavor, a one-sentence blurb could be added in the Research space. If there is no affiliated Research space, the affiliated project would be discussed in a space tagged "Other."

Again, there is a lot of missing information that makes a precise answer impossible. Why is your friend "in a bind?"

@Catalystik and @Goro, as a follow up, I told my friend your advice regarding their DIY thesis, which I believe is about an obscure disease affecting the gait mechanics of African dung beetles or something like that. Apparently, they wrote a new hypothesis paper about it in two days, which is currently under review. However, that still leaves them in the same position as before of not having anything published, so essentially nowhere on that front. They're considering how to make the best of what they've got.

@Catalystik, I hear that listing what they've written would not add any value to their app since it's not published. However, they would like to include something about it to show that they weren't wasting that time on something frivolous, as it was a 1,000+ time commitment. 1) Would it hurt their chances if they listed it, as long as there was nothing misleading about the way they described it?

2) What do you guys think of the idea of listing the process of reading and writing for the thesis as one activity, either as "Other", "Artistic Endeavor", or "Hobby"? This listing would talk about what happened in there, why they spent so much time on this even though it wouldn't help their app (instead of publishing as soon as they got something useable), how the experience changed them, etc. This project was done partially within the context of a two-quarter long independent study, and their thesis adviser has agreed to vouch for the hours logged.

Secondly, they really want to include at least part of the abstract of the thesis.
3) Could they list part of the abstract as an "Other" or "Artistic Endeavor" activity with a link to the thesis online?

4) The thesis abstract is 250 words long, but it is ~2,700 characters long. Could they include chunks of the abstract in two or three "Other" or "Artistic Endeavor" activities with clear labelling, e.g. "Unpublished Thesis Abstract Part 2" or something like that? Or is that just way too much?

5) IP law is beyond the scope of SDN and medicine, but just in case anyone happens to know anything about that too, my friend is also interested in ways to deter people from stealing ideas since they're unpublished so far, so could they insert "Copyright 2019 so and so" just in case?

Thanks for your help.

 

[EpictetusInATightSpot]

P.S. 6) Does anyone happen to know if AMCAS lets you paste in greek letters?

 

[Catalystik]

@Catalystik and @Goro, as a follow up, I told my friend your advice regarding their DIY thesis, which I believe is about an obscure disease affecting the gait mechanics of African dung beetles or something like that. Apparently, they wrote a new hypothesis paper about it in two days, which is currently under review. However, that still leaves them in the same position as before of not having anything published, so essentially nowhere on that front. They're considering how to make the best of what they've got.

@Catalystik, I hear that listing what they've written would not add any value to their app since it's not published. However, they would like to include something about it to show that they weren't wasting that time on something frivolous, as it was a 1,000+ time commitment. 1) Would it hurt their chances if they listed it, as long as there was nothing misleading about the way they described it?

2) What do you guys think of the idea of listing the process of reading and writing for the thesis as one activity, either as "Other", "Artistic Endeavor", or "Hobby"? This listing would talk about what happened in there, why they spent so much time on this even though it wouldn't help their app (instead of publishing as soon as they got something useable), how the experience changed them, etc. This project was done partially within the context of a two-quarter long independent study, and their thesis adviser has agreed to vouch for the hours logged.

3) Secondly, they really want to include at least part of the abstract of the thesis.
Could they list part of the abstract as an "Other" or "Artistic Endeavor" activity with a link to the thesis online?

4) The thesis abstract is 250 words long, but it is ~2,700 characters long. Could they include chunks of the abstract in two or three "Other" or "Artistic Endeavor" activities with clear labelling, e.g. "Unpublished Thesis Abstract Part 2" or something like that? Or is that just way too much?

5) IP law is beyond the scope of SDN and medicine, but just in case anyone happens to know anything about that too, my friend is also interested in ways to deter people from stealing ideas since they're unpublished so far, so could they insert "Copyright 2019 so and so" just in case?

1) Using one space to describe this effort would be acceptable. Others have included ONE SPACE about the experience of writing a thesis.

2) A curricular credit course-related description is usually under the "Other" tag. Since a thesis advisor will vouch for it, I think that the most suitable.

3) Not a full abstract, just a descriptive blurb they can fit in the space. No link to the online thesis.

4) No. One space. Just from reading these thoughts of the writer wanting to overwhelm a med school application with nonessential content make my eyebrow rise. Edit: on reconsideration I'd upgrade my reaction to "face-palming."

5) That is acceptable.

 

[Catalystik]

P.S. 6) Does anyone happen to know if AMCAS lets you paste in greek letters?

Greek letter formatting will not be correctly translated and will come out looking like gibberish (multiple random symbols).

 

[EpictetusInATightSpot]

1) Using one space to describe this effort would be acceptable. Others have included ONE SPACE about the experience of writing a thesis.

2) A curricular credit course-related description is usually under the "Other" tag. Since a thesis advisor will vouch for it, I think that the most suitable.

3) Not a full abstract, just a descriptive blurb they can fit in the space. No link to the online thesis.

4) No. One space. Just from reading these thoughts of the writer wanting to overwhelm a med school application with nonessential content make my eyebrow rise. Edit: on reconsideration I'd upgrade my reaction to "face-palming."

5) That is acceptable.

Greek letter formatting will not be correctly translated and will come out looking like gibberish (multiple random symbols).

Ok, thank you! About 4, I agree. I suggested they get checked out for Beatlemania.