borderline and premed.... possible?

[viciousstreak]

Is it possible to be a doctor if you have Borderline Personality Disorder? At any point in the process of applying to med school, do they ask you any questions about having any disorders like that? Or is it just an issue of don't ask/don't tell?

I'm worried because I am a diagnosed borderline and it's such an integral part of my life. I am also a diagnosed bulimic, but I believe that bulimia is something much easier to hide than a personality disorder which influences my actions, attitude, behavior, etc.

I like to say that I am fully functional. I have done well academically thus far. I do well when given structure, so thankfully I have been able to handle a rigorous and time-consuming undergraduate career, and do quite well considering other circumstances. I have also managed to maintain some responsibility. I can hold down a job and my two volunteer positions. The problem is that aside from school, every other part of my life is... less than perfect. I am impulsive, hence the bulimia. I have learned to socialize, but I have much difficulty is forming and maintaining relationships (of any sort) with people. As far as those who are close to me, I have treated them so poorly and I feel terrible, but at the same time I can't help it. It's been really hard for me to volunteer and put myself out there when I need to, considering my pitiful social skills, but I've managed to do so anyway. I have terrible issues with self-esteem/self-confidence, always seem to be on the verge of breakdown (multiple suicide attempts), and problems with managing my anger. Despite all of my b.s., at the end of the day I am able to put everything aside, and do what needs to be done.

I know I sound pathetic, but despite all these setbacks, I feel that I have done really well in school, and am proud of my accomplishments. It is the only thing I have going for me in life. My question is, am I just wasting my time? Is it possible to help people when I can't even help myself? The funny thing is, my interest is in psychiatry... Do applications/interviewers ask if I suffer from anything that could be detrimental to my progress in med school?

I talked to a girl once who is currently in med school. She suffers from an eating disorder. She told me that if med schools find out about any mental illnesses, they are hesistant to let you continue... She basically said that she has to seek treatment in private, for the sake of her spot in her class. She also spoke of the statistic that most med school students graduate, but the other small 5% or so is reserved for those with similar problems... Is this really the case? Does anyone have any personal experience?

Thanks.

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[suavo1el]

i'd like to say that it shouldnt matter, but then again, i dont think adcoms would look favorably on someone who has big issues. a good chunk of med school is interaction among fellow students as well as patients. if u're not able to handle that in a professional way, i'd say there might be a problem for u in that area. they might ask u about what ur weaknesses might be during the interview. if u do get accepted, then u have to fill out a form that says that u r capable and able-bodied enough to go thru the rigors of med school. hope that helps.

 

[medicomel]

I'm not a psychiatrist, but I'll give my opinion. If this aspect of your life is something that holds you together and keeps you focused, I think you should stay on track with it. Definitely talk to your therapist about it. Our personal lives are our own, and it sounds like professionally you are able to maintain clarity and focus, and will ultimately be a good physician.

I speak from experience, in that I had a partner who was diagnosed with borderline personality disorder. It put me through hell, and I could never understand (up until now) how this person could keep it together at work and do an EXCELLENT job, and yet somehow allow his personal life to go to shambles.

Good luck in whatever you do, but like the above poster, I would refrain from disclosing that to an adcom.

 

[W222]

First off, I am sorry you have these issues but I don't think being a phsyician would be the best choice for you. If you are borderline you could really harm someone or yourself under the stress of medical school. Frankly, an eating disorder can be dealt with proper treatment but borderline disorder may be something you will suffer from for life. Think about the consequences of your borderline disorder, you could have an episode and harm a patient during clerkships/rotations. That is unacceptable.

AND yes, the other 5% attrition rate for medical school is usually due to mental health/medical issues. The stress of med school can be really difficult to deal with and there really isn't alot of structure (like you say you need). You are given work, you either do it or not. Professors can only do so much to structure things for you, at the end of the day its up to you. Again, seek other career choices OR go into it openly with the school and deal with it. DO NOT LIE OR COVER IT, THEY WILL FIND OUT.

 

[W222]

JUST AN EXAMPLE, BUT look at the murder-suicide that recently occured at U of Arkansas. This student obviously had serious mental problems prior to medical school (he had been arrested for assault and violent behavior). Perhaps his situation should be an example that maybe some people, no matter how good they are, should just not be doctors.

 

[liverotcod]

Here's some information on the condition:
http://www.nimh.nih.gov/publicat/bpd.cfm
I'm sorry to hear of your illness. It's going to be a tough row to hoe, I think. First there's the legal qualifications issue. For that, you need to investigate the "technical standards" provided by each school - the necessary attributes and functions of a medical student and doctor. As an example, here are the standards of the U of Wisconsin:
http://www.med.wisc.edu/education/md/admissions/techstandards.php
and an excerpt:

Behavioral and social attributes
The Technical Standards Committee must examine all available information regarding a candidate's behavioral and social attributes including compassion, empathy, altruism, integrity, ethics, responsibility, emotional stability, and tolerance, and decide whether the candidate is suitable.

Sounds like your condition may invalidate you on the basis of emotional stability. But perhaps that's only for you to determine.

Then there's the non-legal side. Should you hide your condition? If you do and it comes out later, that might be a significant problem. On the other hand, if you don't conceal it, you might face discrimination. I haven't concealed that fact that I'm a recovering alcoholic, and it doesn't seem to have hurt me so far (9 interviews, 1 acceptance so far). Another thing to think about is that, if you are successful, you will be responsible for patients' lives. Will you worry, when (for example) a patient commits suicide, that perhaps your illness intefered with your ability to be there 100% for that patient? Something to think about.

Best wishes.

 

[beep]

just fyi, you are under no legal obligation to tell schools about any illness or diability, including bpd. if you do apply, i wouldn't tell. do you have a therapist you trust who can help you decide what to do?

what about looking into bio phd programs? less stress than med school, more flexibility if you do run into problems, and less need to deal with people, but similar intellectual challenge and structure.

 

[W222]

Just a little FYI to you, you are under legal obligation to sign a document saying that you are capable and fit to practice. Borderline disorder may be construed as being unfit for medical school. There is talk among the AAMC to do background checks and considering certain incidents recently issues such as this are definitely relavent to whether a person is fit to practice. You should not attend medical school if there is the possibility that you could harm others or yourself.

 

[beep]

ah, yes, w222 has reiminded me that what i should have said earlier was that you are under no obligation to disclose an illness or disability *provided you are certain you meet the technical standards with or without reasonable accommodations*. if you (and/or a reasonable person evaluating your situation) don't think you meet the standards, you shouldn't even apply, which makes the disclosure question moot.

 

[uh-hu]

Is it possible to be a doctor if you have Borderline Personality Disorder? At any point in the process of applying to med school, do they ask you any questions about having any disorders like that? Or is it just an issue of don't ask/don't tell?

I'm worried because I am a diagnosed borderline and it's such an integral part of my life. I am also a diagnosed bulimic, but I believe that bulimia is something much easier to hide than a personality disorder which influences my actions, attitude, behavior, etc.

I like to say that I am fully functional. I have done well academically thus far. I do well when given structure, so thankfully I have been able to handle a rigorous and time-consuming undergraduate career, and do quite well considering other circumstances. I have also managed to maintain some responsibility. I can hold down a job and my two volunteer positions. The problem is that aside from school, every other part of my life is... less than perfect. I am impulsive, hence the bulimia. I have learned to socialize, but I have much difficulty is forming and maintaining relationships (of any sort) with people. As far as those who are close to me, I have treated them so poorly and I feel terrible, but at the same time I can't help it. It's been really hard for me to volunteer and put myself out there when I need to, considering my pitiful social skills, but I've managed to do so anyway. I have terrible issues with self-esteem/self-confidence, always seem to be on the verge of breakdown (multiple suicide attempts), and problems with managing my anger. Despite all of my b.s., at the end of the day I am able to put everything aside, and do what needs to be done.

I know I sound pathetic, but despite all these setbacks, I feel that I have done really well in school, and am proud of my accomplishments. It is the only thing I have going for me in life. My question is, am I just wasting my time? Is it possible to help people when I can't even help myself? The funny thing is, my interest is in psychiatry... Do applications/interviewers ask if I suffer from anything that could be detrimental to my progress in med school?

I talked to a girl once who is currently in med school. She suffers from an eating disorder. She told me that if med schools find out about any mental illnesses, they are hesistant to let you continue... She basically said that she has to seek treatment in private, for the sake of her spot in her class. She also spoke of the statistic that most med school students graduate, but the other small 5% or so is reserved for those with similar problems... Is this really the case? Does anyone have any personal experience?

Thanks.

Friend, do us all a favor. There are many other ways to fulfill yourself and do much good other than being a stressful, overworked, constantly pressured physician. Why don't you be happy doing something that will suit you? Something that you can enjoy without being stressed or pressed?

 

[Fermata]

How exactly do you expect to hide this?

 

[PookieGirl]

Congratulations on being aware of your condition. That in and of itself is a huge bonus. Sounds like you have good mental health professionals, which is important. You've come far and should be proud.

I think the next question you need to ask yourself honestly is: Given your past record of treating acqaintances/ friends/ family members poorly, and difficulty in maintaining relationships, are you capable of establishing and maintaining relationships with patients? As this is a CRUCIAL part of being a physician, if you can't answer YES, then you should reconsider this career.

If that answer is a YES or I THINK SO, then you should try medicine. That may sound weird, given that the application process is so expensive and that you assume huge loans, but I'm one that would rather face my failure at having tried but not done well then to face regret over not having tried something. If you are one to be able to recognize when you are in over your head, then I see no harm in trying and then bowing out if it doesn't work out. That said, if safety with patients EVER becomes an issue, then you need to consider a new career.

Have you talked with your therapist about this? Is that person an MD?

Unfortunately there is still stigma surrounding psychiatric illnesses of all kinds, even within the medical field. I think that if you mentioned this issue, you would have no chance of getting in to medical school. So you and your therapist need to really dig deep and see if you can safely pursue this. BPD is a more serious mental illness say than depression or eating disorders so it requires more rigorous self-evaluation to decide about entering this field.

Assuming you pursue medicine, will you be attending BPD support groups? Will you still see your therapist during medical school?

I do have a question on the environment being structured. Is it more that you need structure or that you need some structure PLUS busy-ness? Medical schools vary in the structure that they give you. Yale is a school where students pick their own text books and choose whether they want to take ALL the exams offered or just the required ones. At some schools, students don't go to class. And other schools have you in class most of the time with structured study groups. Med schools vary in the amount of structure they have so if structure was a factor, you have choices.

I wish you well. This must be a difficult issue to face.

 

[RustNeverSleeps]

I would urge you to be very careful and to really think about if this is the best path for you. As others have said, medical school is a time during which you have to cultivate and maintain relationships with many different people. In addition, during your clinical years, you will have to maintain respectful relationships with patients, doctors, nurses, etc., even when these people are rude, mean, and disrespectful to you (which happens rather often). You have to decide if you will be able to handle this, and if you can, if you want to put up with this behavior. It is difficult for people without your burdens, and I think it would indicate intelligence, not weakness, if you decide that your personality does not mesh well with these conditions. You also need to consider the significant stress and the frequent long hours during the clinical years -- will these exacerbate your BPD and make it harder for you to function?

Another thing that you may want to consider is your psychiatry rotation. Borderline patients are known as extremely difficult, and, unforunately, many jokes are made at their expense. I am not trying to put you down at all; I simply want to let you know what you may be in for so you won't be surprised several years down the road. I know that psych will only last for a few weeks. However, I also now how painful it is for me during those short periods when I hear/learn about the type of cancer my mother has or speak to patients with her condition -- I don't know if it will be similar for you when you learn about BPD and deal with BPD patients.

Good luck with your decision. I am impressed with your insight into your problems -- please use that insight to decide if a career as a physician is right for you.

 

[saki0005]

Is it possible to be a doctor if you have Borderline Personality Disorder? At any point in the process of applying to med school, do they ask you any questions about having any disorders like that? Or is it just an issue of don't ask/don't tell?

I'm worried because I am a diagnosed borderline and it's such an integral part of my life. I am also a diagnosed bulimic, but I believe that bulimia is something much easier to hide than a personality disorder which influences my actions, attitude, behavior, etc.

I like to say that I am fully functional. I have done well academically thus far. I do well when given structure, so thankfully I have been able to handle a rigorous and time-consuming undergraduate career, and do quite well considering other circumstances. I have also managed to maintain some responsibility. I can hold down a job and my two volunteer positions. The problem is that aside from school, every other part of my life is... less than perfect. I am impulsive, hence the bulimia. I have learned to socialize, but I have much difficulty is forming and maintaining relationships (of any sort) with people. As far as those who are close to me, I have treated them so poorly and I feel terrible, but at the same time I can't help it. It's been really hard for me to volunteer and put myself out there when I need to, considering my pitiful social skills, but I've managed to do so anyway. I have terrible issues with self-esteem/self-confidence, always seem to be on the verge of breakdown (multiple suicide attempts), and problems with managing my anger. Despite all of my b.s., at the end of the day I am able to put everything aside, and do what needs to be done.

I know I sound pathetic, but despite all these setbacks, I feel that I have done really well in school, and am proud of my accomplishments. It is the only thing I have going for me in life. My question is, am I just wasting my time? Is it possible to help people when I can't even help myself? The funny thing is, my interest is in psychiatry... Do applications/interviewers ask if I suffer from anything that could be detrimental to my progress in med school?

I talked to a girl once who is currently in med school. She suffers from an eating disorder. She told me that if med schools find out about any mental illnesses, they are hesistant to let you continue... She basically said that she has to seek treatment in private, for the sake of her spot in her class. She also spoke of the statistic that most med school students graduate, but the other small 5% or so is reserved for those with similar problems... Is this really the case? Does anyone have any personal experience?

Thanks.

As a recovered bulimic I can tell you that you need to put things on hold, seek treatment, keep a good support system, surround yourself with strong people, AND THEN get back to pursuing your dream.

Your eating disoder is a self-destructive coping mechanism and you must learn a better way of coping BEFORE med school. Your first year alone could put you over the edge.

You owe it to your future patients. I mean, how are you going to tell someone to lead a healthy life when you are killing yourself?

It'll be tough to put things on the back burner for a while, but things will be more clearer post-recovery.

YOU CANNOT LIVE WITH BULIMIA...this is something that will kill you if you do not seek treatment - NOW!!!!

 

[fotolilith]

On the lighter side, a lot of docs learn in medical school that "it takes an apache to catch an apache"

Basically, "it takes a crazy person to catch a crazy person."... so hey, psychiatry might be a good fit for you.

On the not so lighter side, I'm really sorry to hear about your diagnosis, but extremely happy to hear that you are actually taking it seriously. I have a family history of the disease, so I know that it can be devastating, and, from my observance, the hardest part seems to be admitting it.

And yes, you should tread lightly with this for adcoms. This is not a perfect world, and when they are comparing similar applicants with the same numbers, it's more than likely they will choose the one they think will be the best fit. It doesnt mean the sociopath next to you who didn't report their condition will become a better doctor, it just means that they APPEAR to be a better candidate for med school.

That's the advice I was given when I wondered about revealing my former agoraphobia to adcoms in my "tell us more box" on the application. I talked to some premed advisors, and they said that, tho I successfully completed cognitive behavioral training, haven't avoided crowds or panicked in over 2 years, and anxiety disorders are a LOT more responsive to therapy than most psychological issues,... it's still better for my application to leave that particular success story out.

Still, I know a BPD who went to med school... and, unfortunately her negative re-enforcement definitely inspired me to deal with my anxiety before I got there. Unlike you, she never got help... until she was found passed out in the bathroom from a drug OD. She's around today, but realized that she can't do medicine anymore because she never got a grip before her entrance.

Furthermore, I have a family friend who makes a great living as a former alcoholic psychiatrist. Yeh, alcoholism is different from BPD, but he serves his clients well by *understanding* where they are coming from, and giving them hope. So, it goes back to "it takes an apache to catch an apache."

So, you can be functional and a BPD doc, but it's imperative you get help constantly - you're not damaged, you just need to be vigilant in the future. I'm 99.9% free of anxiety/ agoraphobia (sometimes driving makes me bonkers), but I don't let myself off guard. In a perfect world you could share your success in treatment with the adcoms... but we're not quite there yet, so just make certain you keep getting mental help. If you ever think you don't need therapy... well, THEN you are CRAZY.

 

[erin682]

Please don't listen to all these naysayers who don't have any idea what its like to deal with mental illness. You have to decide yourself if you think medicine is for you. ADCOMS will not ask you about it nor do you have to tell them. If you are in control of you illness then and med school is your passion than go for it. I have someone very close to me who has borderline and she is not in control of it. One of the biggest symptoms of borderline is not being able to recognize your own responsibility for your problems. If you can do that you have already taken a big step towards getting yourself better.

 

[Super Rob]

some helpful posts, some not-so-helpful posts


the short answer to your question is "Yes." The long answer is in your PM box. Good luck in whatever you decide!

 

[NubianPrincess]

some helpful posts, some not-so-helpful posts


the short answer to your question is "Yes." The long answer is in your PM box. Good luck in whatever you decide!

I really liked this post 👍


Good luck, viciousstreak

 

[velo]

Wow...ok if you think you can keep it together and do a good job, then sure go into medicine.

I just find it a little hard to believe, I have a lot of experience with a loved one who is diagnosed borderline PD and I just can't imagine them functioning in medicine. It can be stressful for people without these problems, and you have to have thick skin a lot of the time...I just don't know how you're going to get through your surgery rotation...if you think a surgeon is "being mean" to you, you can't just go flying off the handle or stop functioning...sometimes people are curt in medicine, and surgeons especially are pretty blunt in the OR and don't have much patience for anything but perfection

I don't know...good luck, if you think you can do it more power to you, i just think it would be extremely difficult.

 

[CarleneM]

too bad you don't have narcissistic personality disorder- you'd fit right in with about half the docs and profs i have encountered...

anyways, I have a strong interest in psychiatry and a lot of experience working around people in the mental field and it is definitely very apparent that many working in this field initially go into it for personal reasons. either themselves or a loved one has been touched by mental illness. this is of course not always the case. that being said, a huge part of psychiatry is forming healthy therapeutic alliances with your patients and as a borderline that will be quite challenging for you unless you get your symptoms under control. have you tried dialectical behavioral therapy at all? That seems to be particularly successful in this particularly treatment refractory population and perhaps even if you have tried it in the past, finding a new therapist you really clicked to do it with could be a good idea.

On a more personal note, I had a very difficult relationship a number of years ago(boyfriend turned out to be gay and sent very conflicting signals) that led me to some borderline thinking and actions. It was a very low point in my life and while I am not a borderline, I think many of us have probably been through a relationship that caused us to act in irrational, impulsive and volatile ways. I recovered and have found that getting involved with the right partner and seeking out really quality friends can make all the difference. therapy can help you learning how to make those choices and avoid forging serious relationships with people who are not going to give you the kind of emotional support you deserve. so, there is definitely hope but I feel you need to get your illnesses under control before entering med school. its the best thing to do not only for yourself but for your future patients and colleagues.

And to echo what others have said, talk to your therapist and pre-med advisor about this. remember that we are not therapists and we don't know you so please don't go on sdn advice alone.

 

[PookieGirl]

Do people with BPD vary in severity of disease? As in could one person with BPD be at a higher functioning level and more capable of stress than another person with BPD?

 

[lowMCAT]

I struggled with a pretty severe mental illness for several months. Depression and panic disorder. I never thought I'd be able to make it as far as I have. I wanted to go to med school, but I constantly knew in the back of my mind that I had so many psychological issues to deal with, and they could very likely get in the way during med school or a future practice. Maybe you should consider taking a year off before going to med school. If you really want to be a doctor, there is no reason to ever give up that goal. It will not help your mental state to give up on something you have worked so hard for. On the other hand, think about how much you want to be a doctor, and use it as motivation for getting yourself better. Your borderline personality could very likely be a result of your bulimia. You should focus on getting back to eating healthy again first. True, bulimia will kill you- both physically and mentally. It will prevent you from accomplishing your goals. You need to think about this seriously and get yourself some help - soon. It's your life, and it's your choice.

I have now recovered from depression and I am happier than I ever have been. But, six months ago, I never, ever would have thought this could have been possible. My advice to you is to remember that at this point, it is all in your hands. People can help you get better, but you must seek them out. Ultimately, your mental health depends on your willingness to make changes to get better. You have to be willing and active in your own recovery. Trust me, as hard as it will be for you to do that, it really is worth it. Good luck!

PS. I have no doubts that I will be a much better physician after having gone through all that 🙂

 

[Kazema]

I'm sure you know that BPD is one of the most difficult mental illnesses to treat. But it can be successfully treated! It sounds like you are focused on your future and are willing to be treated: that's probably the most important step.

BPD will interfere with your ability to get through medical school, internship, and residency. I'm sure that you understand that, and also that many people will be opposed to your becoming a doctor if they discover your illness. Just look at many of the other posts in this thread.

I don't know you, so I don't know "how borderline" you are, or how your treatment is going. But I believe that it's possible for someone suffering from BPD to become a doctor. I think there are some examples posted in this thread already. You just have to be ready. You and your therapist should talk about this; set up a timeline, set up a support system, make a contract with your therapist, your family, your friends to contact them when you're feeling like hurting yourself or others. Find a BPD group therapy type thing in the area you'll be going. And like someone else suggested, if you're not already doing DBT definitely check it out.

If you don't feel ready to handle the stress, listen to your gut and hold off for a year or however long it takes for you to be ready. But if and when you are able to get through med school, internship, and residency and become a psychiatrist, I believe that your personal experience will give you a unique viewpoint on the mental illnesses you've been afflicted with. The rest of us can only talk to patients and read accounts written by patients to get an insight into these diseases; you've lived through them! I'm not saying that it's a good thing, only that it can be a tool for you in the future.

About disclosing your illness: I would not recommend it. Medicine is still very conservative and there is still a strong stigma against mental illness. There's pros and cons for both disclosure and nondisclosure. If you disclose, you will be free from the added stress of hiding a critical secret from everyone every day, but you will open yourself up to discrimination from administrators, teachers, and students. If you do not disclose, you may escape that discrimination, but you will have that added stress of keeping such a huge secret to your chest.

Best of luck! 👍

 

[Kazema]

One thing I forgot to mention.

I don't know what your motivations are for pursuing medicine, but if your ultimate goal is to treat mental illness, remember that you don't need an MD or DO to become a psychodynamic therapist. If you want to prescribe meds and do research and everything like that psychiatry is still the way to go, but if you're more interested in the talk therapy aspect, that might be a lower-stress alternative you could pursue.

 

[Ypo.]

Is it possible to be a doctor if you have Borderline Personality Disorder? At any point in the process of applying to med school, do they ask you any questions about having any disorders like that? Or is it just an issue of don't ask/don't tell?

I'm worried because I am a diagnosed borderline and it's such an integral part of my life. I am also a diagnosed bulimic, but I believe that bulimia is something much easier to hide than a personality disorder which influences my actions, attitude, behavior, etc.

I like to say that I am fully functional. I have done well academically thus far. I do well when given structure, so thankfully I have been able to handle a rigorous and time-consuming undergraduate career, and do quite well considering other circumstances. I have also managed to maintain some responsibility. I can hold down a job and my two volunteer positions. The problem is that aside from school, every other part of my life is... less than perfect. I am impulsive, hence the bulimia. I have learned to socialize, but I have much difficulty is forming and maintaining relationships (of any sort) with people. As far as those who are close to me, I have treated them so poorly and I feel terrible, but at the same time I can't help it. It's been really hard for me to volunteer and put myself out there when I need to, considering my pitiful social skills, but I've managed to do so anyway. I have terrible issues with self-esteem/self-confidence, always seem to be on the verge of breakdown (multiple suicide attempts), and problems with managing my anger. Despite all of my b.s., at the end of the day I am able to put everything aside, and do what needs to be done.

I know I sound pathetic, but despite all these setbacks, I feel that I have done really well in school, and am proud of my accomplishments. It is the only thing I have going for me in life. My question is, am I just wasting my time? Is it possible to help people when I can't even help myself? The funny thing is, my interest is in psychiatry... Do applications/interviewers ask if I suffer from anything that could be detrimental to my progress in med school?

I talked to a girl once who is currently in med school. She suffers from an eating disorder. She told me that if med schools find out about any mental illnesses, they are hesistant to let you continue... She basically said that she has to seek treatment in private, for the sake of her spot in her class. She also spoke of the statistic that most med school students graduate, but the other small 5% or so is reserved for those with similar problems... Is this really the case? Does anyone have any personal experience?

Thanks.

My experience with those who have borderline has always been that they were not very functional, and were fairly manipulative and had extremely drastic and sudden mood changes.\\\You sound like you are functional, but you admit turmoil in your personal life. It you can avoid treating your patients the same way you treat your loved ones at times, then you should be fine.

I would not mention your disorder in your application or interview, unless you honestly believe it is something that will impede you as a medical student. Once you are in medical school, they won't kick you out for having mental disorders, as long as you can keep up with the course work. In fact, they will work with you, and I would not keep it a secret once in medical school (consider telling the appropriate people).

I think it is especially important for people with BPD (and anyone with intense emotions) to have an acitivity that draws them away from their inner turmoil. Who knows? Perhaps through medical school you can build more self-confidence and inner-calm and learn to cope with your disorder even more. You should talk this over with someone who knows you and your problems, as well as your limitations, intimately-like your therapist or psychiatrist. Good luck

 

[beriberi]

I agree with the above poster. As someone who just graduated from medical school, I would say that many of my classmates had personality disorders, and few were recieving treatment for them. Some had psych disorders, including one very vocal person who had bipolar disorder.

Many people go through medical school with major depressive disorder (a sig fraction of my class was on SSRIs--which are for treating mental illness.) To the posters who have said that you should not go to medical school because you have a psych issues, they are must not realize that mental illness is common and treatable. (And all probably have friends on Adderal or Prozac applying this cycle--and are therefor people with mental illness).

Having said that, I think it is dangerous to say that BPD is a "mental illness." It is a personality disorder--or a maladaptive, fixed behavior. Also known to some as "bad choices." That is why (for those of you a bit more familar with psych) it is on a separate axis than medical illness and a seperate one from psychiatric illness. Interestingly, it is one of the two diagnoses of PD that are valid (meaning more than one observer will usually diagnose in the same person.)

But to my point: many people think BPD is a certain form of maladaption (myself included). Many people are maladapted in a variety of ways (myself included). If you behave in a responsible way (no arrests, court dates, disciplinary actions, frequent psych hospitalization, suicidality/attempts) and do not let your maladaptation effect your school performance, then your maladaptive personality should not have anything to do with your ability to be a physician. However, many people have very negative feelings about people with BPD and it should never be a part of your application. If you get in to medical school, you will certainly be supported through the course, as long as your work does not suffer.

Very curious what all the people who think that you may hurt a patient are thinking? Don't know the connection between BPD and violence/disregard for human life?

 

[liverotcod]

Very curious what all the people who think that you may hurt a patient are thinking? Don't know the connection between BPD and violence/disregard for human life?

No, most of us (self included) are clueless premeds. I endured exactly one semester of undergraduate psych, 17 years ago. Then, too, I had some counseling of my own, but for alchoholism, not BPD. I was thinking that poor personal relationships might cause a physician to be distracted or not "all there" for a patient. But I would prefer to be enlightened.

 

[moses]

look man, if ur a *crazed lunatic* that should be confined to an asylum--then how to hell ya gona be able to take care of pt's?? 😕

jus wondering.....not saying it cant be done but hell its gona take sum work no?

 

[Ypo.]

I work with people with BPD on a daily basis. My best friend from childhood also was diagnosed with BPD and struggled with it and self-injurious behavior for years. Towards the end she became psychotic and started having hallucinations which told her to hurt other people. She committed suicide several years ago, shortly after admitting she was afraid she would give into the voices. No matter how manipulative and needy she was in her personal life, she was also a doting friend, and I never saw her hurt anyone but herself.

The people I care for with BPD today are the same way. In fact, they really enjoy helping feed other patients who are in wheelchairs and who can't speak. Although they may swear like sailors when they get mad, I have never seen them hurt anyone.

This is not to say there aren't those people with BPD that do lash out, but its certainly not a defining characteristic of the disorder.

 

[beriberi]

No, most of us (self included) are clueless premeds. I endured exactly one semester of undergraduate psych, 17 years ago. Then, too, I had some counseling of my own, but for alchoholism, not BPD. I was thinking that poor personal relationships might cause a physician to be distracted or not "all there" for a patient. But I would prefer to be enlightened.

No, I mean: I don't know of any connection between BPD and violence against others.

I would be delighted for the other posters to enlighten the rest of us. (Especially the people asking to OP to bow out of the admissions process.)


In another note (More on the "know your basic psychiatry" soapbox): Someone who hears voices is psychotic and has an axis 1 (psychiatric) illness. BPD is not their basic problem. Giving into the voices has nothing to do with BPD. Suicide rarely has anything to do with BPD (they are attempters, rarely--and usually accidentally-- completers).



BB, not BPD, yet.

 

[45408]

a personality disorder which influences my actions, attitude, behavior, etc.....

every other part of my life is... less than perfect...

I am impulsive.....

I have much difficulty is forming and maintaining relationships (of any sort) with people....

as far as those who are close to me, I have treated them so poorly and I feel terrible, but at the same time I can't help it.

It's been really hard for me to volunteer and put myself out there when I need to, considering my pitiful social skills, but I've managed to do so anyway.

I have terrible issues with self-esteem/self-confidence, always seem to be on the verge of breakdown (multiple suicide attempts), and problems with managing my anger

I know I sound pathetic

I can't even help myself....

Why don't you look at what you wrote and consider how you think you will hold up in the highly stressful environment of medical school and the ensuing residency? You've said that you have pitiful social skills, but you want to enter a people-based field. You have anger management issues, but you'll be in a stressful environment with frequent breaking points.

I'm not saying medicine isn't for you, but you should consider this from your own vantage point. Only you know how bad the situation is/isn't. There are branches of medicine that may be well-suited to your antisocial behavior, and you may flourish. Or, you might not. Think about it.

 

[debvz]

How well do you deal with rejection or failure?.... What are your plans if you do not get into medical school?...

Realize that the BPD coping mechanism of "self destruct" is quite a dangerous one, if you cannot have your way. In medicine, especially as a student and resident, you need to be able to take criticism well and form a thick skin.

Take as much time as you need for therapy and treatment to learn about your limitations (emotional lability, etc) and develop some healthier coping mechanisms. I think that'll go a long way in promoting your happiness and productivity with a career in medicine.

Just some food for thought (no offense intended) 😛

 

[Ypo.]

In another note (More on the "know your basic psychiatry" soapbox): Someone who hears voices is psychotic and has an axis 1 (psychiatric) illness. BPD is not their basic problem. Giving into the voices has nothing to do with BPD. Suicide rarely has anything to do with BPD (they are attempters, rarely--and usually accidentally-- completers).

You misunderstood me, I think. I wasn't saying that hearing voices is symptomatic of BPD-its absolutely true that hearing voices or giving into them is not a defining characteristic of BPD.
I was saying that a friend of mine diagnosed with BPD developed psychotic symptoms after many years of living with BPD (about 13 years to be specific). BPD was her underlying diagnosis, unfortunately she developed the psychotic symptoms shortly before her death, when she didn't have medical insurance, and those symptoms went undiagnosed. Her BPD was well documented, she underwent 6 hospitalizations over the years, including a center that is well reknowned for their work with BPD patients. I really don't think you can accurately diagnose a deceased person over the internet.

As for the suicide, she took a bunch of pills. She left a note. We'll never really know if she meant to die, or if it was another attempt and that she really expected her boyfriend to find her before she died.

 

[stinkycheese]

In another note (More on the "know your basic psychiatry" soapbox): Someone who hears voices is psychotic and has an axis 1 (psychiatric) illness. BPD is not their basic problem. Giving into the voices has nothing to do with BPD. Suicide rarely has anything to do with BPD (they are attempters, rarely--and usually accidentally-- completers).

You really cant diagnose someone with an axis I illness over the internet. bpd's get psychotic sometimes, it is right in the dsm, and not uncommon during times of stress (although dissociation is more common than hallucinations).

step off your soapbox.

 

[CarleneM]

I think the bigger issue at hand, in my eyes at least, is not that the OP is going to physically attack a patient or colleague but that psychiatry is, perhaps more than any other field of medicine, about forging healthy relationships with the patients. Sure they do a ton of psychopharm these days but there is still a fundamental core in the field that is about being able to form a therapeutic alliance. If one of the OP's main problems is forming stable relationships with people, then this is probably not the best choice of field unless she is overcomes her illness by the time she is ready to choose a residency. If she is actively BPD during her psych residency and beyond, then I cannot imagine how that would play out successfully.

that being said, this is a treatable mental illness. being on axis II rather than axis I does not condemn it as untreatable. it is certainly not easy to treat or something that can go away by taking a pill but it is not necessarily a life sentence. "personality disorders are untreatable" is commonly heard but there has been success with treating BPD using dialectical behavior therapy. Also, to whoever said this was a "valid" diagnosis just because two raters will rate it the same is wrong. That makes it a reliable diagnosis, not necessarily a valid one. There is still significant controversy regarding this diagnosis, particularly its relationship to and overlap with bipolar disorder, which is on axis I and is very treatable.

 

[beriberi]

No diagnosis here (of Axis I, Axis III or even Axis V problems). I have no insight into what was wrong with debvz's friend and what led to the tragic suicide (other than what she posted).

Psychosis: is an abrubt break from reality. Borderline personality disorder is not on anyone's differential for a psychotic patient.

BPD diagnostic guidlines talk about some paranoid ideation, which is quite different from psychosis. My DSM does not mention psychosis as a symptom of BPD.

(Though commonly, psychosis can be an aspect of depression. Again, for all of the people who think that the OP should not go to medical school, do they think that anyone who has ever been on Zoloft, Paxil or Prozac should not go to med school either? That mental illness more commonly leads to a psychotic break.)

 

[debvz]

I have no insight into what was wrong with debvz's friend and what led to the tragic suicide (other than what she posted).

Just for clarification, that was yposhelley who was speaking of her friend...

 

[raekelly]

just fyi, you are under no legal obligation to tell schools about any illness or diability, including bpd. if you do apply, i wouldn't tell. do you have a therapist you trust who can help you decide what to do?

what about looking into bio phd programs? less stress than med school, more flexibility if you do run into problems, and less need to deal with people, but similar intellectual challenge and structure.

If med school is your desire, I think you would be happy sticking with it. You could even get medication to help you out. There are also other types of treatments for mental health patients: biofeedback, hypnosis, EMDR, etc.

A PHD program in a hard science will not by any chance be less stressful. It could be worse. You will take courses, do orals, write comp exams, if one passes these exams, the student forms a dissertation comittee, and writes a proposal for the dissertation. While doing all of this you would probably be teaching and holding office hours for students. In other words, much, much, much people interaction with colleagues and students.

To actually acquire the PHD, one could take more than four years to obtain the degree.

I don't think you should give up. You came this far. It would be worse if you ended up with a job that you hated.