Borderline Ex-Spouses

[masterofmonkeys]

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I hope this isn't considered a medical advice post. I have never been in a relationship with a borderline. But I know several people who have been married and/or have kids with people with (possible) borderline traits. The things they (and more awfully) their children are put through seem insane.

I know there are self-help books out there on living with borderline people in your lives, but it seems like the dynamic of a divorce in which you HAVE to stay in each others' lives is a bit more complicated.

Professionally this also interests me as I plan on going into C&A and I've already had the *cough* pleasure of doing family evaluations for children in which kid's mom or stepmom clearly has cluster B traits. And that this considerably complicates the child's psychosocial situation.

Anyone got any resources on this?

 

[erg923]

The all mighty Marsha Linehan has her own line of self-help tapes for Borderline individuals, that of course, come from the DBT framework/orientation that she founded. I think these tapes and the accompanying workbook are primarily meant to be used as an adjunct to formal DBT therapy sessions with a trained therapist as well. I am not aware of any self-help lit for family members of those who are borderline though. I currenly have a boderline woman with an ex-husband and a 12 year old son (god bless him, and I will probbaly see him in therapy in about 10 years for what he has to deal with now). The ex-husband simply ignores her and has no interaction with her. I cant blame him. She is simply unable to comprehend why her 12 (almost 13) year-old son doesnt want to spend all day with her on Saturdays when she has custody. Sometimes it is simply amazing to me how parents can be so ignorant of the normal developmetal cycles/stages kids go through. Hello!? Do you know any 12 year-olds that want to hang out with mom all day. I sure dont!


One interesting thing we found about these self-help tapes was the discrepancy between how it was perceived by people. When we watched it in a supervision group with about 6 therapists-in-training, we found it to be comical and almost condescending. Especially her tone. However, in a DBT skills group, every borderline reported that they found it be soothing and helpful. Not one of them mentioned feeling "talked down to" or condescended to. We found this very interesting.

 

[kugel]

I don't know how good these are, but a google search for
"borderline personality disorder support for family" produced...

http://www.bpdfamily.com/

http://www.bpdcentral.com/support/email.shtml

http://www.bpd411.org/

http://www.borderlinepersonalitytoday.com/main/

and many more.

 

[billypilgrim37]

I can't vouch for its quality, but I've seen Stop Walking on Eggshells on the bookshelf of many people.

 

[tomato]

Here's the Otto Kernberg-affiliated resource from NY Presbyterian - Payne Whitney:

http://bpdresourcecenter.org/

 

[whopper]

My wife & I are going to a DBT training series hosted by Marsha Linehan in a few weeks in Iowa.

Though I suspect my own participation will be very limited because of my board exam.

Talk about the boards actually cutting my learning. Marsha Linehan--it doesn't get any better than that for Borderline, and I'll probably only be caring about the board exam--which I am really hating right now.

MOM--when I first read the DSM description of Borderline, I thought to myself--SO THIS IS WHAT ITS CALLED!!!!, SOMEONE FINALLY NAILED IT!!!

 

[OldPsychDoc]

I can't vouch for its quality, but I've seen Stop Walking on Eggshells on the bookshelf of many people.

Amazon's got some good stuff in this line. It really depends on how functional the "non-borderline" partner is--as far as how much you can expect them to manage the limit-setting, assertiveness, boundaries they need to develop to keep themselves healthy and provide some anchor of stability for the kids in these situations.

 

[Doc Samson]

http://www.amazon.com/Sirens-Dance-Marriage-Borderline-Study/dp/1579548318

Memoir of a psychiatrist who married a borderline. Written under a pseudonym, but lots of folks seem to know who the author is. Apparently has been optioned for a movie.

 

[nancysinatra]

Any recommendations for the adult children of personality disordered individuals? It's no surprise when these marriage stories end in divorce, but what do you say to adult children who wish to have some kind of peace with difficult and manipulative parents who are clearly only getting older? And what about not just borderlines, but narcissistic personality disorder? Does anyone know of anything?

I had a patient with passive avoidant personality disorder, and felt so sorry for her teenage daughter. It must be so sad to watch your mom not make it in life, over and over again. The mom was funny and nice, but just kept sabotaging herself.

 

[billypilgrim37]

Any recommendations for the adult children of personality disordered individuals? It's no surprise when these marriage stories end in divorce, but what do you say to adult children who wish to have some kind of peace with difficult and manipulative parents who are clearly only getting older? And what about not just borderlines, but narcissistic personality disorder? Does anyone know of anything?

At this point, I think you're covering 65% of all literature published in the last 3 centuries. There's probably no great way to predict what book would really hit home for folks in these situations. Do they need Jonathan Franzen or Virginia Wolf? Philip Roth or Samuel Butler? Or do they need some sort of Joel Osteen spoonfeed-you-bullshot feel good book? Hard to tell.

This is where it comes in handy to just be a voracious reader yourself, read things you like, watch movies you like. These are pretty visceral matches.

I've never heard a doctor recommend a book to a patient that didn't make me roll my eyes. That's pretty unfortunate.

And if you recommend Mitch Albom, you should have your license taken away like yesterday.

 

[masterofmonkeys]

thanks for the input.

 

[whopper]

Any recommendations for the adult children of personality disordered individuals? It's no surprise when these marriage stories end in divorce, but what do you say to adult children who wish to have some kind of peace with difficult and manipulative parents who are clearly only getting older?

Funny because my mother is a psychiatrist, and in fact IMHO has a personality disorder--for real. Yeah, I know I'm biased, but everyone I know who truly knows her that is a mental health professional agrees. In fact from the culture my mother was born in, its actually considered normal for a mother to have borderline traits and there's actually a name for it in the language when mothers are manipulative & put their children in no win situations.

Normal for that culture, but not normal in the US. If you see the movie Raise the Red Lantern I think you'll understand.

or this clip--yes this was my mother almost all the time even if I came home completely on time, and she was a psychiatrist.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TdOGpCAknOk

Hard to answer the question. Parents with personality disorders--well depends on which one, the severity and the situation of the specific child in relation to the parent. The only answer I can give given the above is that the parent does have to meet their child half way. If the parent is not willing to do that, only so much can be done.

 

[nancysinatra]

At this point, I think you're covering 65% of all literature published in the last 3 centuries. There's probably no great way to predict what book would really hit home for folks in these situations. Do they need Jonathan Franzen or Virginia Wolf? Philip Roth or Samuel Butler? Or do they need some sort of Joel Osteen spoonfeed-you-bullshot feel good book? Hard to tell.

This is where it comes in handy to just be a voracious reader yourself, read things you like, watch movies you like. These are pretty visceral matches.

Ahh, well, literature may be helpful over the long haul, but it might not do much good when a person who just wants to get on with their life is being actively tortured by a senseless family member. Plus, literature often ends with people throwing themselves on the railroad tracks.

As Tolstoy said, happy families are all alike, but unhappy families are each unique. Maybe that is why the self help genre is so skimpy in this area?