Bottom Tier State School vs Middle Tier Private School

[dr_zippo]

I am looking for some help on where to go to med school next year. I keep hearing that all schools are regarded the same except the top 10 schools, but lately I have seen a couple people post that bottom tier med schools are also seperated from the rest on the negative side.

I am trying to decide if I should attend my very low ranked state school or a mid ranked private school. My state schools is ranked mid tier in the primary care rankings, but I don't want to do primary care. The difference in cost of attendance is about $60,000 over the four years. I have seen a lot of threads comparing state schools to top tier schools, but I am trying to compare a very low tier state school to a mid tier private school ~40 USNEWS.

My main concern is my ability to match well. My state school matches almost all students in the region, but that could just be that people want to stay close to home. Would I have a better chance at matching throughout the country going to a mid tier private?

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[Critical Mass]

So are you considering Arkansas vs. a mid-tier private? My advice probably depends on what you mean by "mid-tier" since you'll get as much debate about that as you will over the actual question you're asking.

Where do you want to grow old and practice?

 

[crazy_cavalier]

You should post this in pre-allo.

 

[dr_zippo]

So are you considering Arkansas vs. a mid-tier private? My advice probably depends on what you mean by "mid-tier" since you'll get as much debate about that as you will over the actual question you're asking.

Where do you want to grow old and practice?

By mid tier I mean a 40 something USNEWS research ranking.

I would like to practice on the west coast, but the private school is out east. My main question is this: are the bottom tier schools really seperated from the rest as far as residency matching, or is that just an SDN myth?

 

[dr_zippo]

You should post this in pre-allo.

I figured people here would have a better idea about what is important for residency matching.

 

[crazy_cavalier]

I figured people here would have a better idea about what is important for residency matching.

Chill. You havent even had your first day of class. It's a little bit early to start thinking about match-day.

To answer your question just pick the school you liked better / which one you'll be happy with - and stop posting premed topics in the allo forum.

 

[dutchman]

This whole "bottom tier" thing flying arround is going to hurt someone's feelings any second.

 

[njbmd]

I am looking for some help on where to go to med school next year. I keep hearing that all schools are regarded the same except the top 10 schools, but lately I have seen a couple people post that bottom tier med schools are also seperated from the rest on the negative side.

I am trying to decide if I should attend my very low ranked state school or a mid ranked private school. My state schools is ranked mid tier in the primary care rankings, but I don't want to do primary care. The difference in cost of attendance is about $60,000 over the four years. I have seen a lot of threads comparing state schools to top tier schools, but I am trying to compare a very low tier state school to a mid tier private school ~40 USNEWS.

My main concern is my ability to match well. My state school matches almost all students in the region, but that could just be that people want to stay close to home. Would I have a better chance at matching throughout the country going to a mid tier private?

Where you match has little to do with the medical school that you attend (unless you go offshore) and much to do with where you elect to apply for residency when you enter the Match. In my class, a large number of folks were from California (my school was located on the east coast). They matched in residencies in California because they wanted to go home.

What you match in is largely determined by what you are competitive for (you are not going to get Derm if you are in the bottom half of your class even if you graduate from Hopkins) and how well you performed in medical school. Go where you are most comfortable and can perform your best. If you hate the school and hate your classmates, you are not going to do as well as if you are in a school that you enjoy and are more comfortable.

The top grads from any medical school in the country will be sought after by competitive residencies and specialties.Attending a medical school that is renowned for primary care does not lock you into primary care. Any graduate from any medical school in this country can enter any specialty provided you are competitive for that specialty.

In my case, my school was not highly ranked. I received a full-ride tuition scholarship (why I chose this school) and graduated AOA (Alpha Omega Alpha). I had no problems entering the specialty of my choice (surgery) and had no problems getting interviews at good residency locations. The top people from my class matched into Optho, Derm, Ortho and Neurosurgery without difficulty. Today, I have less than $40K in debt, the specialty that I enjoy and I could care less about where I went to medical school.

Whether you match or not will depend on you and your competitiveness and not your medical school. Go where you are most comfortable and can perform your best. Where graduates matched in 2007 is going to have little influence on where you might match in 2011.

 

[WhoisJohnGalt]

Screw rankings. One thing you're going to figure out as you go through med school is that there is no "best" school, no "best" rotation order for 3rd year clerkships, no "best" residency program... what's going to be the best for YOU isn't going to be the best for any of us. If you LIKE the private program better (location, friendliness, curriculum style, etc.), it may be worth the $60,000 to go there instead. If not, go to the state school. It really doesn't matter... in the end, you're going to do your best where you're happiest.

Personally, I chose my state school (though I don't consider it bottom tier) over an upper-middle tier private school, and have been very happy to save the extra $100,000 and be close to my family. But that wouldn't have been the right choice for everyone. Just go with where you think you'll be happiest, and you'll be glad you made that choice. Good luck!

 

[NonTradMed]

If you're talking about schools beyond the the top 20 or so med schools, there isn't that much of a difference. However, there are a few med schools which are geared toward primary care, have little research and/or have had 'problems' in the past. It may not be a bad idea to avoid those if you would like to do something competitive.

I know people say "so-and-so got into derm/rad/gas/etc" so there's always going to be exceptions, doesn't mean you will be that exception. When it comes to my education, I have never tried to be that exception. I go with the school that gave me the best education. Go to the school that will give you the best education.

From my standpoint, my school (also ranked 40ish) is not a bad school, and we get people who gave up their instate school for ours precisely b/c their instate school would have offered them little in the way of research with intense push for primary care, which they have no interest in.

However, I have friends at really top tiered med schools (top 10), and their students have a disproportionate number entering the most competitive fields, in very competitive residencies, while at our school, only a few have done so, and it isn't because we just don't care. While we do well on the Step I and all that, we're just not good enough to get 10 people into derm or a dozen into Hopkins. However, as I said, most schools beyond the top 20 won't have any of that either. I guess what I'm trying to say is, consider carefully your bottom state school, but if they truly seem to have a push into primary care and you don't care for it, and/or their research is nonexistant and you really want to do it, go for the mid ranked private school. My parents have worked in academia all their life, and they tell me in academia, school reputation and name do matter to some extent, especially in getting into post-graduate education. The difference between the two schools you're considering won't be to big, but I believe if the school is a bad fit as you say, it will probably not help you in achieving your goals.

 

[Critical Mass]

You should post this in pre-allo.

Unfortunately the OP didn't get the desired response in that forum.

Here is how it's gonna go, OP. Right now you are just seeking affirmation for what your environment tells you is the best choice because you obviously place some kind of value in "rankings." You'll ignore our advice and pick the private school when it is all said and done because the lay public seems to value things like school "rankings." Then next year you'll be right here where we are saying that it really didn't matter. After wasting what could be a handsome down payment on a house, you'll have wished you would have stayed at home.

I'll expect an update after you've decided. Right now I'm giving 70/30 odds that you'll pick the private school.

 

[Doctor Bagel]

I think that if you're driven and persistent, you can wind up wherever you want regardless of where you go to school. Also, going to a top 40 east coast school probably isn't gong to help you get to west coast more than going to UAMS. Personally I'd save the money and go to UAMS, but if you're been dying for years to get out of Arkansas, I can see where the other school would be appealing.

Adding for clarification about UAMS -- UAMS is actually growing as a research school and I know gets more NIH funding than my school. About 50% of their grads go into primary care, so you're not stuck going there if you don't want to. From a completely non-statistical viewpoint, I've noticed that lots of people who go there tend to stay there for residency, but you can't really determine what that tells you. I think as far as state schools go, UAMS is certainly not at the bottom.

 

[DoctaJay]

Unfortunately the OP didn't get the desired response in that forum.

Here is how it's gonna go, OP. Right now you are just seeking affirmation for what your environment tells you is the best choice because you obviously place some kind of value in "rankings." You'll ignore our advice and pick the private school when it is all said and done because the lay public seems to value things like school "rankings." Then next year you'll be right here where we are saying that it really didn't matter. After wasting what could be a handsome down payment on a house, you'll have wished you would have stayed at home.

I'll expect an update after you've decided. Right now I'm giving 70/30 odds that you'll pick the private school.

You speak truth my friend. To me happiness is directly proportional to future financial freedom. This year a girl at Meharry matched into a six-year residency in reconstructive and plastic surgery at Baylor College of Medicine in Houston. This is a pretty competitive residency and I know MMC isn't high on any US News ranking list. Its all in what you do at the school that you are at.

Source:
http://tennessean.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20070316/BUSINESS01/703160382/1003

 

[UDbiochem]

Talk to docs in the area where you want to practice. See what they think. Honestly. That's one of the reasons I ended up where I ended up. The docs I've talked to in my area don't have much opinion on lots of top 10 schools, but if you mention the words NJMS, quite a few of them would look up and they say "I'd hire anyone from NJMS, great school!"

US News Report in my opinion is all hype. Students from my state school this year matched at Yale, Harvard, Brown, UPenn, UCSF etc (in competitive specialties like derm, ortho, EM, optho, etc..) and I have no idea where NJMS is on the US News and don't care. It's about doing your best wherever you are.

 

[Arsenic]

moving from allo to pre-allo

 

[p9142]

I am looking for some help on where to go to med school next year. I keep hearing that all schools are regarded the same except the top 10 schools, but lately I have seen a couple people post that bottom tier med schools are also seperated from the rest on the negative side.

I am trying to decide if I should attend my very low ranked state school or a mid ranked private school. My state schools is ranked mid tier in the primary care rankings, but I don't want to do primary care. The difference in cost of attendance is about $60,000 over the four years. I have seen a lot of threads comparing state schools to top tier schools, but I am trying to compare a very low tier state school to a mid tier private school ~40 USNEWS.

My main concern is my ability to match well. My state school matches almost all students in the region, but that could just be that people want to stay close to home. Would I have a better chance at matching throughout the country going to a mid tier private?

Choosing a school is a very personal decision that no one on SDN will be able to answer for you. I would think that if you go to a more prestigious school, you would have a slightly better chance at matching, but it might not be worth $60k. That is a ton of money. If I were you, I would look at how your loan repayment would change, and weigh that against the prestige factor.

a $150k @6.8% for 10 years loan looks like this ---> $1,726.20/month
a $210k @6.8% for 10 years loan looks like this ---> $2,416.69/month

Unfortunately there is no way to quantify the prestige factor, so you need to decide what value this is to you.

 

[Tired Pigeon]

Go where you felt most comfortable -- this is likely where you'll be most successful. If you feel roughly equally comfortable at both places, definitely go with the cheaper option.

 

[YupGypsy]

Choosing a school is a very personal decision that no one on SDN will be able to answer for you. I would think that if you go to a more prestigious school, you would have a slightly better chance at matching, but it might not be worth $60k. That is a ton of money. If I were you, I would look at how your loan repayment would change, and weigh that against the prestige factor.

a $150k @6.8% for 10 years loan looks like this ---> $1,726.20/month
a $210k @6.8% for 10 years loan looks like this ---> $2,416.69/month

Unfortunately there is no way to quantify the prestige factor, so you need to decide what value this is to you.

give me a break.
prestige factor counts when you're planning to do academics and this is only applicable if you go to the very top schools.

why don't you save us some trouble and just name the private school, zippo.

 

[scgroat]

gypsy's right. If your goal is to one day win a Nobel prize for your research, go to the 'better' school. If you just want to get into a good residency, do well on your USMLE tests and do well in school. The lowest ranked med school will still give you a fighting chance at the residency of your choice. Pick the school that fits you best after you delete the rankings from your brain. If anyone tells you differently, they're either wrong or splitting hairs.

 

[notdeadyet]

The importance of med school rankings matters less and less the further you get from undergrad.

 

[EM_Rebuilder]

Dont forget its easier to do really well at a place where you are happier...

The so called 'prestige' really doesn't carry you very far for the match. Its all about Board Scores and class ranks....

As far as I am concerned, I went to the top school in the South. I lived ~5 mins from school, bought a nice brick 3 bedroom house and lived about 250 miles from 'home'. I know every doctor/resident in my hospital. I walk down the hall and am hoarse from greeting every person I pass since they all know me.....and to boot I scored the residency I wanted.

Try doing that at some huge mega school... No thanks!

Oh and believe it or not, I will be making the same amount of money, seeing the same patients, and sitting in the same chair that the guy from Johns Hopkins was in the previous shift.....and my patients won't care!



Good Luck...

 

[scgroat]

Well said, rebuilder. I have a very close friend who went to Harvard Medical School, and he says the same thing. Sure, he's proud to have gone there, but only he knows where he went to school. His med school diploma sits in his office for his eyes only.

 

[BozoSparky]

give me a break.
prestige factor counts when you're planning to do academics and this is only applicable if you go to the very top schools.

why don't you save us some trouble and just name the private school, zippo.

i agree. for academia, you want to work with the best (those with big brains & research money & name recognition) you can.

otherwise, save your cash!

 

[mahasanti]

i agree. for academia, you want to work with the best (those with big brains & research money & name recognition) you can.

otherwise, save your cash!

How do you know whether you will want to go into academia or not? Maybe some people are absolutely sure, but others may not be.

You won't close any doors by going to a prestigious school. You very well might close a few doors by going to a low ranked state school. Keep your options open and go to the more prestigious school.

 

[Critical Mass]

Funny that we're talking about "prestige" because I just watched the movie, and I've learned that the "prestige" is usually more illusion than reality.

We still don't know what "middle tier" school the OP is talking about, and I'm not even sure that Arkansas isn't also "middle tier" (whatever that means).

Cute, this thread is in pre-allo now where it belongs.