BS in 3 years: help or hurt for app?

[ratherberocking]

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I'm in my second of year of undergrad but im considered a "junior." Im taking the MCAT next April and will be applying to med school shortly after. Do you all think that my short age (19) and completing my B.S. in three years will help or hurt me?

 

[PreMD86]

I'm in my second of year of undergrad but im considered a "junior." Im taking the MCAT next April and will be applying to med school shortly after. Do you all think that my short age (19) and completing my B.S. in three years will help or hurt me?

I had a similar dilemma- I came into school with 15 creds, and could've graduated 1-2 semesters early. When I consulted my pre-med advisor, he strongly discouraged this because, according to him, undergrad is your last chance to take classes for pleasure and explore the curriculum. He said adcoms would really wonder what the rush is, and would judge you to be immature. In hind sight, I should have probably read between the lines and gone for it. A good friend of mine graduated in 3 years with my profile and has graduated med school successfully.

Although I don't think graduating early would be a disadvantage, referring to 19 as a "short" age might...

 

[TheRealMD]

Don't confuse age with shortened time in college.

Age is an issue of maturity and knowing what you want in life (though adding on 2 years I doubt makes a difference for most people).

Finishing undergrad in 3 years tends to make people think that you've missed out on something OR are rushing through (especially if you took a full load every semester to get there).

Though I'd ask you to think of a good reason why not to go for another year.

 

[Writer1985]

The admissions deans of the med schools in my state repeatedly told the premed group I was in that they strongly discourage finishing undergrad early. Of course, if you have financial or family difficulties, that's different, but if you just want to rush through it....

I came into college with 40 credits but chose to spend 4 years to get a double major in two subjects I love and won't be able to study any more. It was easily the best four years of my life.

Life isn't a race. If you do decide to get your degree early, be prepared to explain your reasoning.

 

[Kthanksbye]

Dude, UMKC has a 6 year med program that takes people right out of high school. Going to undergrad for three years still gives you more undergrad experience than they get. I think you can make a case for graduating "early" and going to med school after three years if you wanted to. It's not unheard of. On the other hand, if you really want to explore other subjects, then stick around in undergrad for another year or two. And if you apply, and don't get in, you can do that anyway and apply the next year. What do you have to lose?

 

[ratherberocking]

Thanks everyone for your suggestions. It's really tough to answer an interviewer though if he/she questions "why three years?" I mean, I've taken lots of classes for the heck of it in subjects i like besides science: asian history, religion, music, etc. I just came into college with 20+ credits that counted towards core requirements. So, I graduate in three years just taking 15 credits/semester. Plus, I really don't wanna stay a year more as an undergrad since no other major really interests me.

 

[Quix]

I'd be careful about using credits towards pre-req's - some medical schools don't particularly like that. Ironically enough, I was having this conversation yesterday with a student I'm mentoring - I took her around to the Bio and Chem departments and had her talk with a few people, and they recommended that while she had credits from high school, they suggested that she be a UTA for the core biology and chemistry classes to ensure that (1) she has covered the same core material as the other undergraduates in preparation for the MCAT, and (2) that she receive the same grounding that they would for the upper division sciences.

My personal take on the matter is that barring a family/financial emergency, there is absolutely no reason to finish undergraduate education early. Of the hundreds of students I've taught (nearing the 1000+ student mark), very few have shown the insight necessary to appreciate the scope of the medical school/medicine experience. Very few have a good enough sense of who they are and who they will be even five years down the road. Very few have shown the maturity to deal with the issues of medicine, including dealing with death and/or being responsible for someone's death or familial collapse. It's certainly possible, and I don't want to draw too many broad generalizations, but I will freely admit that were I on an adcom, I would certainly want *significant and tangible proof* that younger than average candidates were capable of handling these issues.

I'm not really concerned with academic skill - there are many people who show extraordinary abilities in the sciences, and I've taught a number of students who would make brilliant scientists, but that does not translate into maturity in interpersonal relationships or ability to work with "messy" diagnoses and potentially unanswerable problems.

Consider the applicants against whom you will be competing - many (most) will be older than you, with more experience, clinical exposure, etc., etc. How much time have you spent clinically? How much time have you spent in research? How much time have you spent gaining real-world perspective? Are you just a stat junkie, or is there any real meat to your application?

The bottom line is that I would recommend using your remaining undergraduate education to explore these areas.

 

[ratherberocking]

Well, I've done pretty well these past two years. I started research from day 1, and have continued working in the same lab (about 1000 hours already). I've done about 200 hours shadowing a doc, and I tutor about 5 hours a week. But, my mom is sick, and it's just her and me. I wouldn't really want to use that excuse. I don't want it to be taken as pity or something like that. But, in my short years of life, I pretty much grew up in a hospital: my mom is a transplant patient. And just about a month ago, I thought she was going to die, but thankfully, she pulled through.

Should I even mention this to schools as a reason why I want to start early? I dunno what to do. I know I want to graduate early, but I don't know what to tell schools.

 

[Quix]

What kind of research? Clinical? Bench work? Can you be more specific?

Many applicants have 150-200+ hours of shadowing, and many are tutors as well. While your personal history could be quite compelling (I don't want to get too personal on an anonymous message board), there are also many applicants who have been in hospitals from a young age due to family illnesses.

Again, I don't want to discount your experience, but I also don't want you to harbor any illusions about the folks with whom you will be competing. There is a rather morbid joke the pops up in these fora from time to time about the number of DAB's you've saved/cured/etc., but there is an essential truth to it: many, many applicants are going above and beyond the pale to make themselves competitive applicants.

 

[ratherberocking]

I've been doing biomedical research for the past two years and have been funded by the NIH for all of my projects, including my current one. I started research at 17 (i dont know if that's good or bad?). I was also accepted into a B.S. / M.D. program, but I still want to apply to other schools to maximize my options. I'm just terrified though that I won't get accepted because of my age.

Thanks for your honesty and your advice.

 

[Quix]

Not a problem at all. I'm happy to do it.

I'd be careful about looking a gift horse in the mouth regarding the BS/MD program - these are very competitive, and there are many students who would have been quite happy to take the admission. Why do you feel that you want more options? How would this affect your relationship with your mother (if it's just the two of you)? What makes the grass greener in the other programs? Are you certain that you will be able to perform significantly better on the MCAT than the rest of the test-takers to warrant going to another program? I ask because many people harbor the illusion that success on practice exams will produce success on the real thing; the MCAT is a relatively scaled exam versus live people, rather than fixed against a database/historical population.

In regards to the research, what is your role? How directly involved are you with testing/bench work versus data analysis/scut work?

 

[ratherberocking]

One of the reasons I would want to apply to other schools is location. I currently live in the southeast and would like to experience four seasons, and the medical school i would go to if i would continue in the bs/md program is near where i live now. i just would like to experience something completely different. Also, I would take my mom with me. She also wants to move elsewhere too. Thankfully, she's been recovering rather quickly.

in regards to research, I'm directly involved in what I do. I've done a mix of field work, bench work, etc, and I have been doing my own research with just a mentor overlooking. I currently have a publication on the way.

 

[ratherberocking]

oh, and for the MCAT, i've been studying two hours per day Monday thru Friday, and 6 hours on Saturday and Sunday. I started studying in September and am planning to take it in April. I've been studying rigorously because my diagnostic score was a 20.

 

[estairella]

Quix: While I think your argument is absolutely valid, I have doubts that 1 year is going to make a big difference in terms of maturity. Yes, 1 more year is going to help you in terms of gaining experience and making you a better applicant, but that's true for 95% of applicants and it in itself is not good advice to give (Quix you're only 30.. think of how much more awesome of a candidate you'll be at 35!!)... especially considering, from how the OP describes it, he's a dream candidate in every other respect.

ratherberocking: From what I understand (being a young applicant currently in the process), it never helps and sometimes can hurt. It really depends on the school and also on how you present your application. After all, the counterpoint to Quix's argument regarding maturity is yours regarding potential. The older you are, the more set you are set in your ways, for better or worse. As a younger applicant, however, [insert cliche analogy about being molded into a sculpture]. 😉

Personally, I could have graduated in 3 years (I over-loaded on courses) but I'm on a 1-year co-op/research internship instead, because my application was much weaker a year ago. If my application then had been as strong as it is now, yes, I would have applied back then and taken the degree.

 

[NdFrSpd]

wow i'm in the SAME situation as you! I'm only 19 now and i'm finishing up my undergard in three years...i've thought about this a lot and it most probably will affect us in a negative manner. If you have great scores and GPA thought, I think it might become a non issue....I doubt the adcoms will even care if you project yourself as mature in an interview. Have a good reason for finishing your undergrad so quickly! And like other people said...there are six year programs where the students only get like 2 years of undergraduate work...why is three any worse?

 

[Disinence2]

I graduated in 3 years from college, I'm 21 and a first year.

Don't even bring it up as an issue, hopefully your application will be solid enough for them to not even realize its only been 3 years.

I think it was a good decision as I'm still young enough to complete a LONG residency and even fellowship and still be in my early 30's when its over.

 

[ratherberocking]

I graduated in 3 years from college, I'm 21 and a first year.

Don't even bring it up as an issue, hopefully your application will be solid enough for them to not even realize its only been 3 years.

I think it was a good decision as I'm still young enough to complete a LONG residency and even fellowship and still be in my early 30's when its over.

did your interviewers ask you why you were doing it in three years? oh and thanks for giving me hope!

 

[Quix]

Quix: While I think your argument is absolutely valid, I have doubts that 1 year is going to make a big difference in terms of maturity. Yes, 1 more year is going to help you in terms of gaining experience and making you a better applicant, but that's true for 95% of applicants and it in itself is not good advice to give (Quix you're only 30.. think of how much more awesome of a candidate you'll be at 35!!)... especially considering, from how the OP describes it, he's a dream candidate in every other respect.

31, actually. 😉

There is a point of diminishing returns, however, as people get older. 1 year out of 4 (for the OP) is a much more significant percentage of overall education than 1 year out of 12 (for me; or 13, if you're including this application cycle).

About one year making a difference in terms of maturity, in the course of one year I was BCLS trained and ran through three codes (lost my first patient, brought the other two back from cardiac arrest); in the course of a different year, I began clinical rotations and answering ethics consults (as part of a team), so real people lived or died based on the rec's we made. These are profoundly life-changing experiences, so don't discount the value of a year. A year spent doing nothing of impact certainly doesn't make a significant difference; a year spent meaningfully does.

Regardless, age is a consideration for me, as are character development and the ability to handle the realities of medicine. And no, I don't consider the OP to be a "dream candidate"; while the research background is impressive, we don't have the raw application statistics, we don't have the rest of the primary application, and what he's described in terms of EC's are typical for applicants.

Regardless, this is neither here nor there. OP, if you still intend to finish early, best of luck.

 

[yaniv34]

I'm graduating a semester early. My excuse is I want to save money and use some of it to travel.

 

[TheRealMD]

31, actually. 😉

There is a point of diminishing returns, however, as people get older. 1 year out of 4 (for the OP) is a much more significant percentage of overall education than 1 year out of 12 (for me; or 13, if you're including this application cycle).

About one year making a difference in terms of maturity, in the course of one year I was BCLS trained and ran through three codes (lost my first patient, brought the other two back from cardiac arrest); in the course of a different year, I began clinical rotations and answering ethics consults (as part of a team), so real people lived or died based on the rec's we made. These are profoundly life-changing experiences, so don't discount the value of a year. A year spent doing nothing of impact certainly doesn't make a significant difference; a year spent meaningfully does.

Regardless, age is a consideration for me, as are character development and the ability to handle the realities of medicine. And no, I don't consider the OP to be a "dream candidate"; while the research background is impressive, we don't have the raw application statistics, we don't have the rest of the primary application, and what he's described in terms of EC's are typical for applicants.

Regardless, this is neither here nor there. OP, if you still intend to finish early, best of luck.

The problem with basing age on stuff is that it's usually just a number. 21-year olds who never go to college because they choose not to are rarely more responsible than the 18-year old pre-med. That being said, MOST 18-year olds are definitely less responsible than the 21-year old but we're talking about applying to ****ing med school, not drinking!

Anyway, I'd argue that if you were to ignore age on a person's application, you'd usually see other reasons not to admit them. I say this because at one interview I had a bunch of questions like "have you see death?" and I honestly found that offensive unless you ask all the other undergrads that. It's not like as you get older (age diff of 4 years max), you are guaranteed to have seen someone die. Kinda weird if you ask me.

 

[Quix]

The problem with basing age on stuff is that it's usually just a number. 21-year olds who never go to college because they choose not to are rarely more responsible than the 18-year old pre-med. That being said, MOST 18-year olds are definitely less responsible than the 21-year old but we're talking about applying to ****ing med school, not drinking!

Anyway, I'd argue that if you were to ignore age on a person's application, you'd usually see other reasons not to admit them. I say this because at one interview I had a bunch of questions like "have you see death?" and I honestly found that offensive unless you ask all the other undergrads that. It's not like as you get older (age diff of 4 years max), you are guaranteed to have seen someone die. Kinda weird if you ask me.

In general, I agree that age is arbitrary and that maturity levels differ. That being said, however, considering the average age of applicants is higher than the OP's, there is at least in principle the chance that they have had experiences that the OP has not. Again, I would want to see maturity from *all* applicants to medical school, but I don't think it's unreasonable to have a higher burden of proof for someone younger than the norm. I've taught enough undergraduates to note differences based on age and experience, so I'm comfortable wanting to see more from those younger than average.

 

[MattEvers]

I'm finishing school in three years as well and don't see much of a problem with that aspect of your question.

I'm 22 now and will be applying as I turn 24. At 19, I hadn't a clue about anything. That's not to say I know what's going on now. I'm just implying that a year more, especially at that age, could do wonders spending it in undergrauate school. I spent a couple years in the military and wouldn't give that time back for anything. I learned so much.

So I would think about your reasoning behind wanting to finish early. For me, I just think I am ready and am jumping through the hoops. No need to delay the jumping.

 

[NonTradMed]

I had a friend who wanted to graduate in 3 years instead of 4. The premed advisor said that the top tiered schools she was aiming for would not appreciate her cutting her college education short. I don't know how true that is.

Sadly, my friend applied to multiple top tiered schools, all of whom waitlisted her. She did get into her 'safety' med school. I'm not sure how much of her 'youthfulness' contributed to the waitlists.

 

[Legato]

Sometimes I feel like admissions committes are filled with...foolish people. I'm finishing in three years because college is a waste of time. I'm forced to sit through boring classes not related to my interest for no reason at all. I'm not allowed to take classes I enjoy or do what I enjoy because there is a stupid medical school admissions committee who is going to be looking at my grades for whatever course I take (=stress =not fun =less learning). Somehow I will become "mature" by sitting through these classes for an extra year. What will I learn this last year than I didn't learn in my previous three?

 

[milliya]

Sometimes I feel like admissions committes are filled with...foolish people. I'm finishing in three years because college is a waste of time. I'm forced to sit through boring classes not related to my interest for no reason at all. I'm not allowed to take classes I enjoy or do what I enjoy because there is a stupid medical school admissions committee who is going to be looking at my grades for whatever course I take (=stress =not fun =less learning). Somehow I will become "mature" by sitting through these classes for an extra year. What will I learn this last year than I didn't learn in my previous three?

I agree i plan on finishing up as early as possible (a semester or 2) unless my GPA needs some work. then maybe I'll take a few extra science courses and focus really hard.

 

[SiR99]

Adcom at a top 5 school told me age can only hurt you and there is no way it can help you.

All things being equal, they will take someone a year or two older, just because that persons had more life experience.

Now on top of that, that person will also have more time to do EC's and will probably also be a better applicant then you as well.

 

[milliya]

if age can only hurt you, it seems sort of predjudice. if all my numbers and EC's are great, why shouldn't i be invited for an interview? after that it would really be up to me to show them how serious i am about my career.

 

[SiR99]

I didnt want to argue with the person because I had alot of questions to ask about things Iv read on this forum (like this one), but thats what they said.

24 vs 25 isnt a big difference,

18-19 compared to 22 is a big difference

Top schools just dont want kids around when there are adults who are just as qualified.

 

[Flaxmoore]

I could have graduated with my BS in 3 years, but to graduate with departmental Honors, I had no choice but to go for four. Some of the required courses were only offered every other year.

As for that early grad helping, I'd be inclined to say it wouldn't. Maturity is always a question- I know darn well that I'm better equipped now at 25 with a Master's than I was at 22 with a BS-Honors, and I was better equipped at 22 with a BS-Honors than I would have been at 21 with a BS.

 

[KublaiKhan]

Do it, I am graduating 1.5 years early and I have received a respectable number of interviews and I have never been asked about my maturity or if I felt like I missed out on anything in college in my interviews. It's one less year you'll have to spend in school which is nice considering we are all on a pretty long track before we are finally free from the educational system.

 

[milliya]

Do it, I am graduating 1.5 years early and I have received a respectable number of interviews and I have never been asked about my maturity or if I felt like I missed out on anything in college in my interviews. It's one less year you'll have to spend in school which is nice considering we are all on a pretty long track before we are finally free from the educational system.

Just read your MD profile and it looks great! (i left a comment) Your circumstances are certainly inspiring. We've got to talk sometime.

 

[TheLesPaul]

.

 

[KublaiKhan]

Just read your MD profile and it looks great! (i left a comment) Your circumstances are certainly inspiring. We've got to talk sometime.

Feel free to PM me if you like. 🙂

 

[ratherberocking]

Your stats give me hope! Thanks!!!