California Northstate University College of Medicine(CNUCOM): Long road to accreditation

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NSdoc said:
In a different thread a student has shared a letter from the college president, a pharmacist. The letter is signed with the title "Dr.". The prefix is also used below the name without any mention that the individual is Pharm.D.
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There are many situations in which the use of an honorific is acceptable.
The use of the MD in any ambiguous or clinical setting would not be.
Even PhDs (who are otherwise called "Dr." at the medical school in a classroom setting) may not be addressed as "Dr." in our hospital in the earshot of patients or their families.
 
NSdoc said:
Appears that LCME did not have the heart to revoke accreditation. Probationary status has been extended for another year.
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If only they had the heart to save applicants from becoming matriculants.
 
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Cal Northstate has been extended in Probationary Status for another year:

Accredited U.S. Programs | LCME

lcme.org lcme.org

Edit: They are the only school in the Provisional, on Probation status. There are three other schools that are in Full, on Probation status.
 
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WildWing said:
Cal Northstate has been extended in Probationary Status for another year:

Accredited U.S. Programs | LCME

lcme.org lcme.org

Edit: They are the only school in this status.
Click to expand...
There are 3 other schools on probation at present:
LSU Shreveport
Albert Einstein
Meharry

These schools had previously reached Full Accreditation before being placed on probation,
whereas Northstate is still at the Provisional Accreditation level.
 
wysdoc said:
There are 3 other schools on probation at present:
LSU Shreveport
Albert Einstein
Meharry

Theses schools had previously reached Full Accreditation before being placed on probation,
whereas Northstate is still at the Provisional Accreditation level.
Click to expand...
Yes, I've clarified! A few schools moved from Preliminary to Provisional accreditation as well.
 
WildWing said:
Cal Northstate has been extended in Probationary Status for another year:

Accredited U.S. Programs | LCME

lcme.org lcme.org

Edit: They are the only school in the Provisional, on Probation status. There are three other schools that are in Full, on Probation status.
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They had a full year to get thier act together, but couldn't pull that off????????
 
Goro said:
They had a full year to get thier act together, but couldn't pull that off????????
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Since the previous LCME visit they have lost faculty with academic credentials & are now awash with ex Kaiser physicians.
 
NSdoc said:
About 20% of the Class of 2024 did not match & had to apply for unfilled positions through the SOAP. This is the highest in the school's short history.
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On the CNU Match 2024 website, I noticed that not all the symbols on the map are, well, matching in the list given (for example, IR and DR).

Sloppy or just dishonest?
 
Goro said:
On the CNU Match 2024 website, I noticed that not all the symbols on the map are, well, matching in the list given (for example, IR and DR).

Sloppy or just dishonest?
Click to expand...
Given that the list is alphabetical and cuts off after Psychiatry, my money is on sloppy.
 
NSdoc said:
About 20% of the Class of 2024 did not match & had to apply for unfilled positions through the SOAP. This is the highest in the school's short history.
Click to expand...
Where did you get that info? This is the only school I was accepted to this cycle and Im considering reapplying due to all the recent news...
 
I can confirm the above information as well as I have received direct messages from current CNUCOM individuals. If any other current CNUCOM individuals want to deny what I am about to post, you are welcome to do so.

For this 2024 match: about 23-25 students (around 20% of the class) did not match on Monday and were forced to SOAP.

I found another intriguing statistic. Here is a tracker of the CNUCOM's match rates from 2021-2024 (accessible on CNUCOM's website):
98.9% (2021) --> 98% (2022) --> 97% (2023) --> 95% (2024)
 
Go2Mars said:
I can confirm the above information as well as I have received direct messages from current CNUCOM individuals. If any other current CNUCOM individuals want to deny what I am about to post, you are welcome to do so.

For this 2024 match: about 23-25 students (around 20% of the class) did not match on Monday and were forced to SOAP.

I found another intriguing statistic. Here is a tracker of the CNUCOM's match rates from 2021-2024 (accessible on CNUCOM's website):
98.9% (2021) --> 98% (2022) --> 97% (2023) --> 95% (2024)
Click to expand...
Disproportionate to the decrease in overall match percentage is the increase in matches through the SOAP.

This year's primary match rate would have been a lot worse had it not been for the mentoring of one neurologist which led to 13 students matching in neurology & 1 in neurosurgery.
 
I can only read the headline as it requires a subscription, but it looks like the school is being sued for labor law violations.


They are also being sued for a data breach (also subscription required):

news.bloomberglaw.com

California Northstate University Worker Sues Over Data Breach

California Northstate University LLC failed to protect the personal information of thousands of current and former employees and students that was exposed in a February 2023 ransomware attack and data breach, a proposed federal class action said.
news.bloomberglaw.com news.bloomberglaw.com

To be fair, there have been a lot of places that have had data breaches, and labor law violation lawsuits are also common, and rarely go the way of the plaintiff.
 
The institution has a turnaround of office staff that exceeds that of faculty replacement.

Most just leave. This is the first time that someone has lodged a formal complaint.
 
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Appears that the grandiose hospital construction project has stalled.
 
Hey guys, yesterday, CNU received full accreditation!! The dean sent the below email to all the medical students.

IMG_7475.png
 
GCU_Grey_Area said:
His Linkedin says he'd been a professor of otolaryngology at the school for over 8 years before he became the dean. That seems like a background in medical education?
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This is just a copium thread at this point. The “experts” had all their predictions turn out wrong.

Maybe there’s some guilt mixed in too based on how many students (with CNU being their sole A) they convinced to reapply even when every cohort has had fine matches. Who knows how many of those students ended up abandoning medicine altogether? Shame.
 
supahRad said:
This is just a copium thread at this point. The “experts” had all their predictions turn out wrong.

Maybe there’s some guilt mixed in too based on how many students (with CNU being their sole A) they convinced to reapply even when every cohort has had fine matches. Who knows how many of those students ended up abandoning medicine altogether? Shame.
Click to expand...
That seems mean-spirited. Given the information that was available, I think it was right for there to have been voices advising caution at the time. We have to admit that it was an extremely opaque process even if things did resolve well.
 
supahRad said:
This is just a copium thread at this point. The “experts” had all their predictions turn out wrong.

Maybe there’s some guilt mixed in too based on how many students (with CNU being their sole A) they convinced to reapply even when every cohort has had fine matches. Who knows how many of those students ended up abandoning medicine altogether? Shame.
Click to expand...
I was one of a few on this thread who believe that CNU would obtain LCME accreditation eventually. I believe the general consensus from the experts on this thread is to attend CNU if it is their only A. However, I will say that there were a couple of individuals who urged people to turn down their only A to CNU and reapply. Congrats to all the people that made the right decision. GL to all of you.
 
As somebody that was rooting for CNU to get accredited, it is still worth noting that they require their students without extraordinary financial means to take predatory private loans to attend with a CoA of roughly 500k over 4 years... Prospective students should remain cautious and do their research into this matter.
 
Congrats to CNU for getting it done. I'm sure the students and faculty are breathing a huge sigh of relief.

For those now coming out of the woodwork to take victory laps, let us not forget that it took 10 years for the school to reach this milestone. That's quite a slog for an outcome that was by no means inevitable.

Based on my observations, the expert consensus on CNU has not been "drop the acceptance," but rather "be cognizant of the school's situation." Everyone has a different level of risk tolerance, and for some it was justifiable to not matriculate.
 
Med Ed said:
Congrats to CNU for getting it done. I'm sure the students and faculty are breathing a huge sigh of relief.

For those now coming out of the woodwork to take victory laps, let us not forget that it took 10 years for the school to reach this milestone. That's quite a slog for an outcome that was by no means inevitable.

Based on my observations, the expert consensus on CNU has not been "drop the acceptance," but rather "be cognizant of the school's situation." Everyone has a different level of risk tolerance, and for some it was justifiable to not matriculate.
Click to expand...

Hi everyone,

I had to create an account to address what I've observed in this thread over the years. As a current CNU student, I feel compelled to respond to recent attempts to recharacterize the tone and impact of this forum.

The record speaks for itself. The thread title says "avoid at all costs," and the commentary was often dismissive, mocking, and unrelentingly negative—not merely "being cognizant of the school's situation."

This had real consequences. I've had some accepted students reach out privately expressing anxiety from what they read here (some were very incorrect). I personally know at least one student who declined their only CNU acceptance based on SDN advice to "just reapply elsewhere." They didn't receive any acceptances the following cycle and now carry regret.

What many don't realize is what current students have endured. For context, I was accepted before the probation status was announced. Although I was also accepted at other East Coast schools, I chose CNUCOM because I have an extremely ill family member and this school was closest to home. While this was my decision and I accept the consequences, I strongly believe my school's students, including myself, have faced additional stressors and the psychological burden of wondering if our degrees would be worthless, all because of this thread.

SDN's influence extended beyond prospective students—many medical students from other schools learned about CNU through this thread. Some approached me with genuine curiosity, but others showed clear bias, treating us as somehow lesser medical students. That treatment was disheartening and reflected poorly on the broader medical education community.

Now that CNU has achieved full LCME accreditation, I find it troubling to see attempts to soften the historical record. The guidance given here wasn't balanced risk assessment—it was often categorical discouragement with real consequences.

I've also noticed inconsistencies in how different schools are discussed. I know that other institutions facing challenges with board pass rates, student dismissals, or accreditation issues receive more measured, supportive commentary. The standard applied to CNU seemed notably different.

Additionally, significant weight is given to unverified sources while simultaneously emphasizing the importance of verified facts. This inconsistency is worth reflecting upon.

I respect this community's role, but credibility requires acknowledging when guidance may have caused unintended harm. I really appreciate a website like this where students can get valuable information for free, but I wanted to say gently that this is something worthwhile to reflect on for all of us.

Some may try to discredit me by suggesting I'm an admin member. What I can say for certain is that this school has been truly accommodating to me, and I would not be where I am today without it. I am excited to provide quality patient care and support to those in need—whether patients or their families. This commitment to helping others is what drew me to pursue medicine.

I hope you all have a great day today
 
I appreciate the insights from students at CNU. Can I ask if there was anything in the discussion thread that was clearly untrue, just so that we can correct the record? Can you provide an appropriate perspective about what was going on?

For the record, the "record" on the part of the medical school does not speak for itself. Accreditation has a lot of elements that are kept confidential and away from public view, including all the specific corrections made to address accreditors concerns and comments. We don't know why it took as long as it did to get full accreditation or if the faculty turnover had a negative impact. Hopefully all the stats about Step passage and residency selection will come through soon. There could have been more done to inform people about progress getting out of probation as many other schools have done. If we missed that, let us know because it wasn't on the website.
 
I'm glad they've been able to address the accreditation issues.

There is historical precedent for skepticism about a health professional school launching despite accreditation issues.

Back in the early days of SDN, discussions on the site lead in part to the Hawaii Department of Consumer Affairs investigating and ultimately shutting down Hawaii College of Pharmacy, but not until after some students lost thousands of dollars in tuition and had to reapply to restart their education at other institutions:

Hawaii College of Pharmacy - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org en.wikipedia.org
A

Thread 'P1 hicp students'

Hi,
Is any one in here currently in the Hawaii School of Pharmacy? If so, would you mind sharing your experience of the first semester there? I'm just curious...Thankx 🙂
 
Mr.Smile12 said:
I appreciate the insights from students at CNU. Can I ask if there was anything in the discussion thread that was clearly untrue, just so that we can correct the record? Can you provide an appropriate perspective about what was going on?

For the record, the "record" on the part of the medical school does not speak for itself. Accreditation has a lot of elements that are kept confidential and away from public view, including all the specific corrections made to address accreditors concerns and comments. We don't know why it took as long as it did to get full accreditation or if the faculty turnover had a negative impact. Hopefully all the stats about Step passage and residency selection will come through soon. There could have been more done to inform people about progress getting out of probation as many other schools have done. If we missed that, let us know because it wasn't on the website.
Click to expand...

Sure. I'll address two recurring misconceptions. I'm unsure why they weren't more open initially—frankly, had they shared more information upfront, it would have been less alarming for those unfamiliar with the behind-the-scenes developments.

1. CNU's supposed uniqueness in probationary status:

One assertion that requires correction is the claim that CNU was the only medical school placed on provisional probation. This simply isn't accurate. CUNY College of Medicine was also placed in this same probationary status prior to our situation. In late 2022, they conducted a town hall meeting with their students and transparently shared on their website that they were addressing approximately 25-26 deficiencies spanning across 12 different Standards (out of what I understand to be roughly 125 total components that schools are evaluated on). What's particularly interesting is that CNU actually had fewer deficiencies than CUNY, and the specific areas we needed to address were remarkably similar to the feedback and comments that CUNY had received from their accreditors.

2. Regarding the misconception about teach-out policies being CNU-specific:

Another point that needs clarification involves the teach-out policy requirements. There seems to be a misunderstanding that these policies apply uniquely or more strictly to CNU, but this isn't the case. These requirements are universal across all medical schools according to the LCME Rules of Procedure, which clearly states:

"A written teach-out plan includes the process by which the sponsoring organization ensures that instructional and academic support services are available to students enrolled in a medical education program that has been discontinued or has failed to make adequate progress toward achieving full LCME accreditation. These services may be provided by the sponsoring organization of the medical education program or through formal agreement with another sponsoring organization."

Furthermore, all medical schools are required to adhere to LCME Standards, including Standard 1.6, which mandates that:

"A medical school ensures that its medical education program meets all eligibility requirements of the LCME for initial and continuing accreditation, including receipt of degree-granting authority and accreditation by a regional accrediting body of either the medical school or its sponsoring organization."

Even fully accredited medical schools maintain some form of contingency planning, though these may not be formally submitted to accreditors.

3. Some personal thoughts:

Other than these, what I can share from my direct experience as a student is that Dr. Isaacs' leadership has been nothing short of transformative since his arrival at our institution. He is honestly an awesome dean. He regularly engages with any student he encounters in the hallways, asking about their well-being and career interests—particularly with those he hasn't spoken with before about their aspirations. Also, I don’t think anyone mentioned this, but his background includes serving on the Board of Directors for the Kaiser medical school until his departure from Kaiser in June 2023.

Under his thoughtful guidance, we've witnessed significant and meaningful organizational improvements, including the introduction of new administration members who have brought fresh energy and perspectives to our institution. I think a lot of changes had to be made in this regard, but the new faculty members are great. These new team members have implemented genuine engagement with students. Through their actions, they demonstrated that they truly listen to our concerns and work collaboratively to accommodate student needs in ways that make a real difference in our educational experience.

Also, the last site visit in 2024 that maintained CNUCOM's probationary status was not due to the LCME not having the heart to revoke accreditation. Rather, the LCME saw the progress but wanted to ensure these improvements could be sustained, which is why they conducted another site visit the following year. But I totally see their perspective on that, and I would have done the same if I were in the same boat as them
 
From their website regarding Match:
2025: MATCH 2025 | College of Medicine
2024: News | College of Medicine
2023: News | College of Medicine
2022: News | College of Medicine
2021: News | College of Medicine

Even knowing some of the limitations of Match results, I give credit and praise to the students who made it and the faculty/staff who helped them, despite the challenges of being on extended provisional accreditation. They found a way to get things done. I don't know about attrition, but if these results were not so consistent, I think the chances for full accreditation would have been more dubious. (Again, it's not the only thing LCME looks at. The previous post notes a change in culture and confidence in leadership, which makes a big difference.)

I don't know if the issues with the guaranteed admission track were resolved, but that's usually not an issue LCME focuses on.
 
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Okay. This is going to be my last response on this thread. I tried to just move along, but I cannot after seeing many experts only liking posts that add to their past skepticism while ignoring the substantive points I've raised (As a side note, I really appreciate those who actually asked to understand better about what's been going on actually). I obviously feel extremely strongly about this matter, because every time one of you posted on this thread (and please look back to see what you all have said) in the past three years, I have seen the anxiety it has caused in my peers. Some of them didn't have any other choice. My classmates who are reading this thread probably know who I am based on how I talk, but advocacy is one of my values.

WildWing said:
I'm glad they've been able to address the accreditation issues.

There is historical precedent for skepticism about a health professional school launching despite accreditation issues.

Back in the early days of SDN, discussions on the site lead in part to the Hawaii Department of Consumer Affairs investigating and ultimately shutting down Hawaii College of Pharmacy, but not until after some students lost thousands of dollars in tuition and had to reapply to restart their education at other institutions:

Hawaii College of Pharmacy - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org en.wikipedia.org
A

Thread 'P1 hicp students'

Hi,
Is any one in here currently in the Hawaii School of Pharmacy? If so, would you mind sharing your experience of the first semester there? I'm just curious...Thankx 🙂
Click to expand...

I appreciate the response, but I have to respectfully push back on the Hawaii College of Pharmacy comparison, as it's not a fair parallel to CNUCOM's situation. I looked into this after you mentioned it.

1. HCIP vs. CNUCOM
  • Hawaii College of Pharmacy operated without any accreditation, actively misrepresented its status to students, and was shut down for fraud and misconduct. Students were genuinely deceived about the school's legitimacy.
  • CNUCOM in contrast, followed the established LCME pathway (preliminary, provisional, probation, and then full accreditation). At every stage, the accreditation status was publicly disclosed. The school was working within the formal accreditation process, not operating outside of it.
  • To add on, the Accreditation Council for Pharmacy Education refused to even conduct an on-site visit for HCIP. CNUCOM, by contrast, went through multiple LCME site visits.
I acknowledge it wasn't pretty—there were real challenges, faculty turnover, and legitimate concerns during the probationary period. But there's a difference between a messy accreditation process and outright fraud or misrepresentation. This is why I understand some skepticism, but some of you went overboard. Some comments here were very unnecessary, especially if you actually cared for the students. You cannot deny that.

To put this in perspective: this would be like comparing a medical student taking board exams and getting feedback for improvement to someone who was never enrolled in medical school but was pretending to be a doctor. Both involve educational evaluation, but one is part of a legitimate process while the other is fraud.

Moreover, comparing pharmacy school closures to medical school accreditation isn't particularly relevant, as the regulatory environments and historical precedents are quite different. No medical school has ever permanently lost LCME accreditation during the provisional-to-full transition process.

2. The Double Standard

I also find it somewhat ironic that after years of posts featuring sinking ship imagery and "avoid at all costs" rhetoric, there's now surprise that students might push back when we achieve a positive outcome. If the discourse had been more measured from the beginning, perhaps the response wouldn't feel so pointed now.

While healthy skepticism toward new schools is warranted, retroactively citing pharmacy school failures to justify the tone toward CNUCOM feels more like searching for validation than providing fair context. The situations simply aren't comparable when you examine the actual facts.

The original concern I raised stands: there's a meaningful difference between appropriate caution and the categorical discouragement that characterized much of this thread's discourse over the years. It would have been a lot better if we saw some acknowledgment of the impact rather than constant justification of past actions.
 
notyourgooglemd said:
2. The Double Standard

I also find it somewhat ironic that after years of posts featuring sinking ship imagery and "avoid at all costs" rhetoric, there's now surprise that students might push back when we achieve a positive outcome. If the discourse had been more measured from the beginning, perhaps the response wouldn't feel so pointed now.

While healthy skepticism toward new schools is warranted, retroactively citing pharmacy school failures to justify the tone toward CNUCOM feels more like searching for validation than providing fair context. The situations simply aren't comparable when you examine the actual facts.

The original concern I raised stands: there's a meaningful difference between appropriate caution and the categorical discouragement that characterized much of this thread's discourse over the years. It would have been a lot better if we saw some acknowledgment of the impact rather than constant justification of past actions.
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sdn, or I should say sDOn, is some what toxic. The sinking ships posted by a notable admin on this thread is a "Faux pas."
 
Sunshine2024 said:
Below are the links to the Step 1 and 2 Passing Rates:

USMLE Step 1 Passing Rates

medicine.cnsu.edu medicine.cnsu.edu

USMLE Step 2 Passing Rates

medicine.cnsu.edu medicine.cnsu.edu
Click to expand...

Now compare this to one of the leading brands of the DO world (Touro) putting barriers for the bottom 50% of their students in hopes they can’t register for Step 1, a P/F exam.

I can count on 1 hand the number of DO schools that would pass an LCME site visit. COCA is an abomination and is the only reason schools like KansasCOM can operate (and expand) with a 25% COMLEX fail rate.

There were much bigger targets that were more deserving of a thread like this.

Kudos to the LCME and CNU students for showcasing why a US MD is the most prestigious degree in the world. For anyone who picked DO over this school because of the misinformation in this thread, be more careful next time.
 
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