Can a good GPA make up for less vet experience?

[PigsRock]

Hey! I have read a lot of threads about people making up for lower GPAs by having tons of diverse vet hours. That's not my problem...

I am applying next year to VMRCVM and their stats say the average MD resident GPA is 3.52. Mine is 3.94. I do have a lot of animal hours, but I'm volunteering at a small animal clinic for the first time this summer and I'm not sure how many vet hours I'll end up getting.

I want to be a USDA FSIS vet, and they don't let random undergrads run around the processing plants... Thoughts?

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[rugbychick16]

Theres a girl in my class who had a 3.9 something and no clinical experience whatsoever and got into vet school her first try.

She did have 4 years of research working in a microbiology lab and large animal/equine experience from growing up on a ranch to put as her animal experience.

Just try to get as much as you can. Even though you want to be a FSIS vet, you still need to have experience in other areas to show you'll be able to handle your clinical year working with clients and that you understand the profession.

 

[No Imagination]

One of the things you will learn by reading the successful app threads (as well as the 'declined' stories), is getting in with a less then perfect app is a roll of the dice.

There are people who get into Cornell and Penn, who also got denied from OSU and MSU. People with so so apps that get into over other people who have stellar apps.

A lot of people, myself included, try to balance less then stellar academic apps with tons of vet experience, and it works, to a degree.

My take, "yes, you want as much vet experience as possible. But after you have the minimum (what ever that value is), then do not jeopardize your GPA or anything just to get more exp."

I would have rather app'ed with a 3.9 and 1000 hours vet experience, then with my 3.3 and +10K hours

 

[OnceBitten]

I was just accepted on my first round of applications with a 3.92 GPA, less than 150 hours of veterinary experience, and less than 150 hours of shelter experience. I was not by any means a shoe-in, though. Don't bank on your grades making up for a lack in experience anywhere. Just get all of the experience that you can and demonstrate as clearly as possible how well you understand all aspects of the profession. Research each field, look into the major issues surrounding each, develop your own opinions about them, and be prepared to handle questions about them and your lack of experience in any interviews that you get.

 

[alliecat44]

I would say absolutely, it can (and does).

My real question is, SHOULD it?

Personally, I don't think so, but I'm not on any admissions committees. 🙂 Sorry to offend all of you high-GPA/low-experience folks, but I'm making generalizations here after working with dozens of new grads, etc over the years.

Back to your regularly-scheduled patting on the back. 🙂

 

[sumstorm]

Also, different schools have different requirements and expectations. I was off the charts in experience for Purdue, and average for everything else. Not even an interview.

I would make sure you exceed the minimum requirements for the schools you are interested in. I would try to get a variety of experience as well. Also, some schools require ELORS from vets.

 

[jglovicz]

I would say that experience is important, but I think grades are more important. Adcoms want to see that you will thrive at their school (taking +20 credits at a time). The only vet experience that I have had was at an equine clinic. Otherwise, I have countless hours lab animal experience. I had a number of acceptances. The truth is that there are applicants with thousands of hours of vet experience that will not be able to handle a vet school curriculum. I think that if you have the "minimum" number of vet hours, your lack of experience won't hurt you too much. Something to keep in mind when looking at 'average hours of vet experience' from class profiles is that most students that don't get accepted on their first application spend their extra year(s) getting more experience (my feeling is that this is, in large part, what drives up the hours of experience). Good luck!

 

[PigsRock]

Okay, that makes me feel a little better to know it is possible for some people. Thanks for the replies.

I totally agree that experience is important and would love to have gotten more, but I needed a job that pays. This summer I'll volunteer and they said it "might" turn into a paid job, if they have the money. If I don't get paid, I'll survive.

About the eLORs, I was planning to get one from the vet this summer and one from my advisor/ livestock professor. I could probably get one from a resident at the vet school that I helped with her equine nutrition study. I thought it would be good to have letters from from a small animal, a livestock, and an equine person. It was only 20-something hours, though. Would this be a bad idea?

 

[vnair2]

I would say absolutely, it can (and does).

My real question is, SHOULD it?

Personally, I don't think so, but I'm not on any admissions committees. 🙂 Sorry to offend all of you high-GPA/low-experience folks, but I'm making generalizations here after working with dozens of new grads, etc over the years.

Back to your regularly-scheduled patting on the back. 🙂

That swings both ways though. Should lots of vet hours compensate for poor grades? As long as the high GPA/low-experience folks have some minimum number of vet hours and understand what they are getting into, then the animal experience stuff can always be taught. On the other hand, if someone gets poor grades because they are incapable of learning the material necessary to be a doctor, should any amount of animal experience make up for this?

Granted, many people with low GPAs have extenuating circumstances, but many don't. In the end, how to restrain a cat can be taught, but being smart can not.

 

[tpad40]

I could probably get one from a resident at the vet school that I helped with her equine nutrition study.

That sounds like vet experience...! Maybe you have more than you realize?

 

[alliecat44]

Granted, many people with low GPAs have extenuating circumstances, but many don't. In the end, how to restrain a cat can be taught, but being smart can not.

When you define "low grades" as less than, say, a 2.8, then that's fine. Especially if you've got mediocre GREs, a poorly-written personal statement, absence of extenuating circumstances, etc.

But when you define "low grades" as less than 3.5, even with good/great GRE scores/well-written personal statement/other signs that this person is intelligent--AND they have tons of vet experience--you are excluding many, many people who would make fantastic veterinarians and have a more realistic view of the profession in favor of taking someone with a 3.9 GPA and 100 hours of experience.

 

[sumstorm]

Oh, something else to consider is school reputation. If 40% of the graduating class obtains >= 3.8, and the curriculum isn't hard core, a high GPA may not mean as much as the 3.6 from a school that is known for an intensive pre-med curriculum, at which point hours may be more important (not suggesting that is the case with your school, just a point to consider.) Also, even the best student must be able to show they can deal with people. Even in vet med, you will have to deal with people and someone else will be paying you, so you will have clients along with patients.

I can't give you much advice on the ELORS. I don't know that I would think 20 hours is reflective of someone who has a comprehensive knowledge of my potential as a vet.

 

[sumstorm]

But when you define "low grades" as less than 3.5, even with good/great GRE scores/well-written personal statement/other signs that this person is intelligent--AND they have tons of vet experience--you are excluding many, many people who would make fantastic veterinarians and have a more realistic view of the profession in favor of taking someone with a 3.9 GPA and 100 hours of experience.

That would include me! Maybe if I didn't work 50+ hours a week I would have had a higher GPA.... but I am willing to bet most students' with ~4.0 GPAs would have suffered with the insane schedule I maintained throughout college. Even now, when I look back on it, I don't know how I survived (and many of my professors have said the same, even in refs.)

I also graduated summa cum laude with research honors (thesis with full board review including several external examiners.)

 

[vnair2]

When you define "low grades" as less than, say, a 2.8, then that's fine. Especially if you've got mediocre GREs, a poorly-written personal statement, absence of extenuating circumstances, etc.

But when you define "low grades" as less than 3.5, even with good/great GRE scores/well-written personal statement/other signs that this person is intelligent--AND they have tons of vet experience--you are excluding many, many people who would make fantastic veterinarians and have a more realistic view of the profession in favor of taking someone with a 3.9 GPA and 100 hours of experience.

True dat. While im saddened that in Vet school applications a "low GPA" means < 3.5, its hard for me to hate on a system that accepted me. They must be doing something right 😉

 

[bunnity]

sumstorm, I think you have a really good point about work affecting grades. I do think that can be flipped around - having to work affects the amount of time available to get experience which is often unpaid or low-paying. My experience was fairly low (500 vet and maybe 900 animal) because no vet or animal related job would be able to pay as much as my hospital job, and I needed to work to go to school. Even at the low levels there is more money in human medicine I guess.

Obviously there are different opinions about this, and I think that is reflected in the requirements and the recommendations of the different vet schools, with some more focused on experience and some more focused on grades. I think the two should be able to offset to some degree, but there should still be some type of cut-off for each (like I don't think anybody regardless of stats should get in with no experience).

 

[sumstorm]

Yeah, I didn't work with vets during school (except one internship for credit.) Wait, I take that back, I occasionally helped out for a vet when he needed overnights on the weekends. Oh, and i assisted in health research (alzheimers) under PhD biologists.
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Otherwise, I worked as a CNA in the evenings, newspaper delivery early mornings, TA/RA throughout the school day, and welder on weekends. I couldn't afford min wage which was the only offer at vet clinics. Most of my relevant vet experience is post-bac. Breadth and depth because of that is invaluable though! I bet most people can't reference elephant trekking to tend to domestic elephants and livestock among hill tribe villages and performing on-deck necropsies of off-shore bottlenose dolphins in their personal statements. I can honestly say, I wouldn't trade my post-bac vet experiences for anything!

 

[ckd816]

I recently spoke with an adviser who is also a vet, and I asked him flat out if he thinks applicants with low GPAs need to compensate for it by getting more hours of experience in order to "wow" them with something... He told me that was absolutely not the case. He basically said that the only reason experience is required is to make sure people know what they're getting into (as we all know), but that it shouldn't be a huge deal if you don't get thousands and thousands of hours even if your GPA is less than ideal. I was actually told by him that I didn't need to get more experience, but I only have about 1000 SA (vet experience), 65 wildlife rehab (animal experience), and 60 zoo (animal experience).

Regardless of what he said, I am not going to stop getting experience over the months between now and application submission! I don't really have enough experiences for the references I want, so I'm going to keep working so I can get experience in different areas. Of course this advice is just from one vet, and the next vet might tell you the exact opposite. Also, I got the feeling that this guy is pretty old school since he applied and went to vet school in the 60's!

 

[alliecat44]

That would include me!

Yup, me too. And I would like to say that vet school is actually MUCH easier with a ton of experience. Many classmates have told me they wished they had more experience before vet school, so that things would make more sense.

I have an insane amount of experience, a 3.1 undergrad GPA (with extenuating circumstances), a 1430/6.0 GRE. Excellent recommendations from three veterinary specialists (neurologist and two surgeons). Took me FOUR application cycles to get in.

Now that I'm here, I'm guessing/inferring that I'm in about the top 10-15% of my class and finding that I don't have to work nearly as hard as many of my classmates. I have a LIFE outside of school and work one day a week, and am just fine. It all comes from the ability to relate experience to book learning--not much of it is the "animal handling" that vnair mentioned. You know what? I don't feel guilty about it ONE BIT. I worked DAMN hard to get here (not saying others didn't), but every ounce of knowledge I have was earned. I don't feel guilty from being able to lean on it when necessary. And yes, I spend a lot of my time helping my other classmates, and yes, vet school is damn hard and requires a lot of work no matter what your experience level is. Not trying to toot my own horn, but just to give a bit of perspective to the many people who think GPA is the sole sign of intelligence/ability to succeed in vet school. This is a HUGE pet peeve of mine.

Although I was rather shocked when one of our senior students asked me how to pill a cat last fall (six months into fourth year) because he had never done it before. Pretty sure he was one of those 3.9 undergrad folks, too. 🙂

 

[sumstorm]

Regardless of what he said, I am not going to stop getting experience over the months between now and application submission! I don't really have enough experiences for the references I want, so I'm going to keep working so I can get experience in different areas. Of course this advice is just from one vet, and the next vet might tell you the exact opposite. Also, I got the feeling that this guy is pretty old school since he applied and went to vet school in the 60's!

Yeah, if not a current ad com at the school your interested in, I would take it with a grain of salt. When my boss went to school, she was auto accepted based on her 'score' which was a set of points determined by GPA and GRE, with some extra points for major, research, etc. Could you imagine an auto accept these days?

 

[StillDreaming]

it really depends on the school and the year. I didn't have that much experience going into the application, but i had a 20 hour job that i knew i would continue throughout my senior year, and the schools i applied to considered that into my hours (so they knew i had only x amount of hours in october wheni submitted, but had added months of hours when they looked at my app in december/january, and would have that much more when i started in august...

it just depends on teh school and what else you have/what you want to do/who else applies... there is no right answer or perfect application, they look at it all.

 

[PigsRock]

That sounds like vet experience...! Maybe you have more than you realize?

The admissions lady said it counts as research experience, not vet. Although, I suppose it would go under vet on the VMCAS since there is no specific place for research.

Thanks again everybody!

 

[StillDreaming]

The admissions lady said it counts as research experience, not vet. Although, I suppose it would go under vet on the VMCAS since there is no specific place for research.

Ya, it could go under vet experience (in my opinion) as it is under the supervision of a vet. Then you select what kind of animals it was (large, equine, small, research, etc.) and you can just put research. Then in the description just tell them what you did, and if they choose to calculate that as vet then they will, but some school may choose to say "well that's really animal" and take those numbers and move them to another column. But because yours is under a vet i'm pretty sure it counts towards vet experience. A lot of vets do research and it's an important aspect of the field.

 

[jglovicz]

Ya, it could go under vet experience (in my opinion) as it is under the supervision of a vet. Then you select what kind of animals it was (large, equine, small, research, etc.) and you can just put research. Then in the description just tell them what you did, and if they choose to calculate that as vet then they will, but some school may choose to say "well that's really animal" and take those numbers and move them to another column. But because yours is under a vet i'm pretty sure it counts towards vet experience. A lot of vets do research and it's an important aspect of the field.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but I believe the instructions in VMCAS state that vet experience is under the 'supervision' of a DVM or PhD...I only had a few hundred hours of equine vet experience, but have spent my last 2 years working with mice on a daily basis (and doing things such as dosing/survival surgery/necropsy/etc), and this was all under my PI (PhD). I included this in my app and it all worked out fine.

 

[StealthDog]

I'm one of those who got in without much vet experience but a pretty good GPA... I think what saved me was not my GPA, but my volunteer work, research, study abroad experiences, and other extracurriculars. While I agree that everyone should come into vet school with some vet experiences, none of my classmates that failed out did so because they couldn't pill a cat.

 

[Rusty27]

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[bunnity]

Although I was rather shocked when one of our senior students asked me how to pill a cat last fall (six months into fourth year) because he had never done it before. Pretty sure he was one of those 3.9 undergrad folks, too. 🙂

I can't pill a cat, and I have a 3.9. However, I can tube feed wild rabbits, possums, and birds, restrain a squirrel, and I make a killer bunny burrito. I wouldn't scorn anyone who couldn't, though. Different people have proficiency with different kinds of animals.

I feel like you're looking down on people who came in with a high GPA and lower experience. I think both "types" of stats discussed on this thread have strengths that will make certain parts of vet school easier, and both have the ability to succeed in vet school. That's why both types get accepted. I think you also have to realize that just as there are extenuating circumstances that can hurt people's grades, there are extenuating circumstances that can make it hard to get experience. I know there are probably people out there who got in with no experience and just didn't feel like getting it, and I can see why that is annoying and unfair, but I think that represents very few of the high GPA/low experience crowd. I think it is important here to support each others' strengths and not have it be a competition or a comparison of who is more worthy to be in vet school.

 

[vnair2]

I can't pill a cat, and I have a 3.9. However, I can tube feed wild rabbits, possums, and birds, restrain a squirrel, and I make a killer bunny burrito. I wouldn't scorn anyone who couldn't, though. Different people have proficiency with different kinds of animals.

I feel like you're looking down on people who came in with a high GPA and lower experience. I think both "types" of stats discussed on this thread have strengths that will make certain parts of vet school easier, and both have the ability to succeed in vet school. That's why both types get accepted. I think you also have to realize that just as there are extenuating circumstances that can hurt people's grades, there are extenuating circumstances that can make it hard to get experience. I know there are probably people out there who got in with no experience and just didn't feel like getting it, and I can see why that is annoying and unfair, but I think that represents very few of the high GPA/low experience crowd. I think it is important here to support each others' strengths and not have it be a competition or a comparison of who is more worthy to be in vet school.

Amen sister.

 

[DVMorBust]

I can't pill a cat, and I have a 3.9. However, I can tube feed wild rabbits, possums, and birds, restrain a squirrel, and I make a killer bunny burrito. I wouldn't scorn anyone who couldn't, though. Different people have proficiency with different kinds of animals.

I feel like you're looking down on people who came in with a high GPA and lower experience. I think both "types" of stats discussed on this thread have strengths that will make certain parts of vet school easier, and both have the ability to succeed in vet school. That's why both types get accepted. I think you also have to realize that just as there are extenuating circumstances that can hurt people's grades, there are extenuating circumstances that can make it hard to get experience. I know there are probably people out there who got in with no experience and just didn't feel like getting it, and I can see why that is annoying and unfair, but I think that represents very few of the high GPA/low experience crowd. I think it is important here to support each others' strengths and not have it be a competition or a comparison of who is more worthy to be in vet school.

👍👍👍

 

[alliecat44]

double post

 

[alliecat44]

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[alliecat44]

both types get accepted[/B].... I think it is important here to support each others' strengths and not have it be a competition or a comparison of who is more worthy to be in vet school.

Hey, sounds like you've got great experience. I have absolutely no large animal experience and very little exotics experience. 🙂

I'm not "looking down on" people with high GPAs and little experience. I just take issue with the implication that a high GPA is the only means of measuring someone's intelligence/ability to succeed in vet school (see vnair's comment about "you can't teach someone how to be smart." Ouch.) And to say that "oh sure, both types are great and get accepted" is a bit insulting to those of us who have to take multiple cycles to get accepted solely because of a low(er) GPA, while the people with high grades but less experience waltz right in (comparatively speaking) after one or two cycles.

I think you'll agree that IN GENERAL, it is much more common for schools to accept applicants with high GPA/less or no veterinary experience than it is to accept applicatns with less than a 3.5 and tons of experience. So in that, the OP should be just fine.

I'm living proof of the disparity. As are two former co-workers of mine, both of whom worked full-time at a specialty practice while taking all their pre-reqs, also had awesome GREs and letters of rec, but had lower-than-3.5 GPAs and took multiple cycles to get accepted. Compared to a girl who had great grades from undergrad and worked as an engineer, woke up one morning and decided to be a vet, and had her first vet job EVER (not even shelter/rescue work/anything) six months before she applied. She was accepted first cycle out of state to one of the most competitive programs in the country. While we all (who had been in the field for years and applying for years) looked on incredulously.

The fact is that having less experience is much more "forgiveable" in the eyes of vet school admissions than having a lower GPA is (regardless of the reason). And again, when "lower" GPA is lower than a 3.5 or a 3.7, that's kind of ridiculous, IMHO, but the OP should be fine.

I'm not saying anything about anyone's individual aptitude for the profession, etc etc. It would just be nice for folks with high GPAs and little experience to realize that yes, you guys DO tend to get all the breaks--and GPA is NOT (as vnair implied) the only measure of intelligence/likelihood of success in vet school.

And NO, I'm not saying that YOU do not "deserve" to go to vet school. I'm talking about vet school admissions in general. And the attitude by a lot of pre-vet and vet students that GPA is all that matters.

StealthDog, I wonder what the average undergrad GPA is of people who fail out of vet school (across the board). Would make for interesting data.

 

[DVMorBust]

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[DVMorBust]

I'm not saying anything about anyone's individual aptitude for the profession, etc etc. It would just be nice for folks with high GPAs and little experience to realize that yes, you guys DO tend to get all the breaks--and GPA is NOT (as vnair implied) the only measure of intelligence/likelihood of success in vet school.

While I agree that GPA isn't the only measure of intelligence or likelihood of success in vet school, I really take offense at the phrase 'get all the breaks'. It implies a level of silver spooning directly opposed to the effort that goes in to achieving high marks.


So, I agree that it may be looked at more than other factors - and perhaps unfairly - but at the same time, there does seem to be an undertone (not just you, I've noticed it from a lot of people) that a high GPA is inconsequential and just 'happens' for some people.

 

[sunnex3]

While I agree that GPA isn't the only measure of intelligence or likelihood of success in vet school, I really take offense at the phrase 'get all the breaks'. It implies a level of silver spooning directly opposed to the effort that goes in to achieving high marks.


So, I agree that it may be looked at more than other factors - and perhaps unfairly - but at the same time, there does seem to be an undertone (not just you, I've noticed it from a lot of people) that a high GPA is inconsequential and just 'happens' for some people.

well said.

i work hard to get the GPA that i have received so far, it certainly does not just "happen" for me.

for some people, including me, getting really good quality experience may be something that is hard to obtain.

 

[alliecat44]

While I agree that GPA isn't the only measure of intelligence or likelihood of success in vet school, I really take offense at the phrase 'get all the breaks'. It implies a level of silver spooning directly opposed to the effort that goes in to achieving high marks.


So, I agree that it may be looked at more than other factors - and perhaps unfairly - but at the same time, there does seem to be an undertone (not just you, I've noticed it from a lot of people) that a high GPA is inconsequential and just 'happens' for some people.

Fine. You call can be offended by my view that a 3.9 is not much different than a 3.5 when it comes to success in veterinary school, and I can be offended about those who think they're so much more entitled to vet school because of their 3.9 regardless of other things. 🙂 The difference is, you will get accepted more quickly than I will. 🙂 And I have fewer years in which to pay back my loans. So in any case, you still win! Congratulations! 🙂

(and of course I know experience is hard to come by, etc etc. My point is that more forgiveness is given to THOSE extenuating circumstances than the ones surrounding a low(er) GPA.)

 

[sunnex3]

i feel like i've seen SO many people on this board who have been accepted to many schools with a <3.5 GPA - it was some of those successful applicant threads that showed me that grades aren't everything really. i was shocked by how many people got accepted with a "lower" GPA - not that they don't deserve it, i just wasn't expecting it.

i think the biggest thing is the particular SCHOOL though - for example, i know that VMRCVM concentrates more on grades, as does Penn ( i think, from what i've seen ) and i know that some other schools will look more favorably upon more experience.

vet school admissions is such a finicky thing to describe.

 

[PigsRock]

Wow, I'm glad I asked my question... Although I am somewhat more confused than before!

I don't understand why the schools seem to think "vet" experience is soooo much more important than animal experience. In my livestock management/handling class we did day-to-day tasks livestock producers perform that a vet would do if it was a dog or cat. If I want to track food animal, isn't it better that I know how to castrate a pig and bleed a sheep than watch a vet give a cat an injection?

As to the the vet student not knowing how to pill a cat, the farm managers have told us stories about what the vet students don't know how to do. A vet student almost took a pig's nose off with the snare, they hold the drench gun backpack the wrong way so nothing comes out, give a sheep a shot in the wool, etc. I'm sure some of these had thousands of hours in small animals, research, or something else. Everyone has to learn something, right?

 

[DVMorBust]

Fine. You call can be offended by my view that a 3.9 is not much different than a 3.5 when it comes to success in veterinary school, and I can be offended about those who think they're so much more entitled to vet school because of their 3.9 regardless of other things. 🙂 The difference is, you will get accepted more quickly than I will. 🙂 And I have fewer years in which to pay back my loans. So in any case, you still win! Congratulations! 🙂

(and of course I know experience is hard to come by, etc etc. My point is that more forgiveness is given to THOSE extenuating circumstances than the ones surrounding a low(er) GPA.)

As of yet, I have no basis of reference for undergrad GPA and success in vet school...and I do think the application system is screwed up in a lot of ways and unfair to many qualified applicants. I think a higher GPA does have an advantage, no matter which school, whether that's a higher score or getting past the first cut or that school admits solely on numbers. I think that keeps out a lot of people that would make amazing vets, or makes it harder for them to get in. I'm also offended by anyone who thinks they're entitled to go to vet school - whether it's because of their high numbers or whatever. So in that case, I'm in total agreement with you.

I just don't like the way many people knock on the high GPA-ers, casting the effort they put in to get that GPA under the rug.

It's not your comment, that was just the proverbial straw. I've been noticing it for a while, not that people say anything outright, just that there's a frequent nitpicking against those who have strong academics. ("Lower GPA students can relate to other people" "Strong academics equals robot" "They don't have life experiences" etc.)

I also realize that I'm bringing some of my interpersonal life onto this forum, and thus reacted a bit more strongly today than I otherwise might have.

 

[bunnity]

I did not feel at all entitled to vet school because of my grades. I went in feeling like a long shot and being fully prepared to re-apply. I was shocked and humbled to be accepted. I worried the whole two weeks between my acceptance call and acceptance letter because I was afraid they had made a mistake and called the wrong person. And I do worry that I will be "behind" because of gaps in my practical knowledge.

By extenuating circumstances, I didn't mean difficulties finding experience or getting a foot in the door, although that is hard for a lot of people. I meant the same family problems and financial crap that everyone else deals with. I've mentioned before that money was a big reason that I was low on experience, because if I wanted to go to school I needed to work at a higher-paying job. I had plenty of family stuff to deal with too, and I absolutely think it contributed to my late decision to apply to vet school because I was so caught up in "survival mode" that it was hard to think clearly about the future. Difficult stuff is going to happen to everyone, and for some people it is going to hurt their grades, and for others it is going to hurt their experience. I actually find focusing on school helps me deal with difficult stuff because it takes my mind off it. Other people might react by wanting to take a break or let some grades slide and that's ok too.

I understand that it is easy to look at someone else's life and feel like they are getting it easy. I experienced that a lot as a working student at a big state school. I would ride the school shuttle home from work at 11 pm and be so frustrated by all the drunk kids having fun while I had to work. But you know what, I have no idea what their lives were really like, or how hard they had to work, or what problems they had to deal with. I struggle not to be jealous of people whose parents pay for things, or even generally support their life choices and don't think they are going to hell. But when it comes down to it we all have different problems to deal with and most of the time we only see the surface of others' lives. What's the point in trying to judge who has it easier or harder? Why does it even matter?

 

[david594]

I don't understand why the schools seem to think "vet" experience is soooo much more important than animal experience. In my livestock management/handling class we did day-to-day tasks livestock producers perform that a vet would do if it was a dog or cat. If I want to track food animal, isn't it better that I know how to castrate a pig and bleed a sheep than watch a vet give a cat an injection?

Because you want to be a vet.... not a livestock manager? They want to see experience that you understand the job, not just the procedure at hand. I think its good for a pre-vet to see a dog spay done. But I think they will learn more by seeing the doctor talking to the owner about the medical advantages of spaying their animal. Or why their dog neuter is a $300 procedure when Johnny Boy next door castrates his own pigs for nothing at home.

And if you try and castrate a cat the same way you would a pig, the cat will up screaming in pain, and you will have a emergency on your hands.

 

[alliecat44]

Again--I'm not saying anything personal about anyone on this forum. No need to justify why you do or don't feel entitled to get into vet school.

My problem is with the admissions process--and it seems like DVMorBust and I agree on a lot of things in that department. 🙂

Bunnity, you're right--we all have hard things to have to deal with--who's to judge? And why does it matter? The ONLY reason it matters is because of vet admissions committees. That's all. Not what I or you or anyone else thinks, unless they're on an adcom. And personally, I think schools who weight numbers far above everything else without looking at the whole applicant are doing a disservice.

And by the way, I have the utmost respect for people with high GPAs. I never meant to imply that that level of acheivement is easy or not hard-earned. I especially admire it in the cases of those who "have lives" outside of school and aren't robots. Again, congratulations--and your degree/level of honors received will reflect that, and you should be proud of it.

Again, my issue is with admissions committees/the admissions process--which we all can agree is messed up at least to a certain degree. And there are plenty of people out there (though probably underrepresented on this forum) who really do think that they are "better" than someone SOLELY because of their GPA. That gets really tired. You'll see it in vet school (but something tells me you probably won't be one of those people). 🙂

Back to studying for finals, over and out. 🙂

 

[vnair2]

Alliecat44, I think you jumped right into getting all defensive without first actually reading what the other people said. At no point did I imply that grades were the only measure of intelligence. In fact, I even mentioned that many people have extenuating circumstances (such as family or financial problems). I even expressed that I think a "low GPA" should not be considered <3.5, but something much lower.

Ah crap, you already responded before I finished posting, so Im done now.

edit: and I have absolutely no intention of being confrontational here, I just wanted to defend myself since you called me out by name...I mean username. Sorry if I offended you.

 

[sumstorm]

I don't understand why the schools seem to think "vet" experience is soooo much more important than animal experience. In my livestock management/handling class we did day-to-day tasks livestock producers perform that a vet would do if it was a dog or cat. If I want to track food animal, isn't it better that I know how to castrate a pig and bleed a sheep than watch a vet give a cat an injection?

I think there is an inherent assumption in the above statement that knowledge gained during vet experience isn't advanced, doesn't contribute to future ability, and doesn't familiarize one with the realities of veterinary medicine.

I believe part of the reason vet experience is important is that a vet student may NOT get into their ideal field (due to residency issues)...or may determine during or after school that the field isn't so ideal (especially fields that are difficult to obtain experience in prior to entering school.)

I feel that many schools assume that the GPA reflects the intellectual capabilities of a student.... or reflects their drive and determination. I disagree that all students encounter similar challenges during undergrad. I know students who graduate after dealing with major illness/injury, working full time, extensive family drama, etc, and I know students who drop out under all of that. I also know students who NEVER experience any of those additional challenges; parents pay all the bills including additional assistance in the form of funds, travel, prep classes, etc and no real significant drama ever occurs in their life. I do believe it is far easier for those students to obtain very high GPA's than students juggling all of that. I am not saying high GPA's aren't still a lot of work...I am saying that the amount of total work that must go into surviving and thriving is very different. I am impressed by students who manage >3.8 while working FT, attendign school FT, and dealing with family issues. I haven't met any, which may be a failing on my part. I also do think that work, academic and otherwise, should be commended.

One concern I do have about GPA outweighing practical experience is the potential to get vet students who are more passionate about LEARNING vet med than PRACTICING vet med. That results in vets who are not happy in the field, but have extensive debts. I do think this could be avoided by more hours of experience....enough experience that the student knows what it is like to have a day where they encounter absolutly nothing new or interesting or that they aren't overly familiar with. Days when the administrative tasks outweigh the clinical.

This was my first app cycle...but I have 7 years of diverse veterinary experience. Enough to realize that my 'favorite' field is difficult and problematic to enter, and has a lot of demands that may make it a less than ideal field for my current and future lifestyle. I also realize that 7 years later, vet school will cost me more monetarily and famialy than it would have straight out of undergrad. So the additional experience has some high costs...just as attending undergrad had some high costs (first generation high school grad, first generation college grad, disowned for several years during undergrad by a family insecure with the effects education would have on a family member.)

 

[vnair2]

One concern I do have about GPA outweighing practical experience is the potential to get vet students who are more passionate about LEARNING vet med than PRACTICING vet med. That results in vets who are not happy in the field, but have extensive debts. I do think this could be avoided by more hours of experience....enough experience that the student knows what it is like to have a day where they encounter absolutly nothing new or interesting or that they aren't overly familiar with. Days when the administrative tasks outweigh the clinical.

I do agree, but does it really take thousands of hours and multiple years to understand what practicing vet med is really about. I am also a student with relatively low vet experiences hours (~700), but I think I have a very good understanding of both the pros and cons of the field. Unless you spend all those hours spacing out (in which case your recommendations won't be very good), it seems like plenty of time. But, at many vet schools, I would not be even close to a competitive applicant.

 

[sumstorm]

I do agree, but does it really take thousands of hours and multiple years to understand what practicing vet med is really about. I am also a student with relatively low vet experiences hours (~700), but I think I have a very good understanding of both the pros and cons of the field. Unless you spend all those hours spacing out (in which case your recommendations won't be very good), it seems like plenty of time. But, at many vet schools, I would not be even close to a competitive applicant.

I don't know about thousands of hours....I do think a couple of hundred hours each in 3 or more fields is very valuable. I personally don't believe that all vet med is the same (ie I have no real knowledge of public health vet med, or infectious disease vet med though I am very interested in these fields....I do know a lot about mixed animal, small animal, marine mammal, and zoo. Variety, even within an area like small animal, also enlightened me to major differences in practice.

 

[vnair2]

I don't know about thousands of hours....I do think a couple of hundred hours each in 3 or more fields is very valuable. I personally don't believe that all vet med is the same (ie I have no real knowledge of public health vet med, or infectious disease vet med though I am very interested in these fields....I do know a lot about mixed animal, small animal, marine mammal, and zoo. Variety, even within an area like small animal, also enlightened me to major differences in practice.

A couple 100 hours in 3 fields is precisely what experience I have, but as I already said, I would most likely not be considered a competitive applicant when it comes to vet experience hours at many vet schools. And if I came on these boards and posted my experience hours to ask for advice, I almost certainly would have received 10 immediate responses saying I need to get much more experience, because I don't have enough.