Can I have a physician co-sign this letter?

[alladots]

Hi all,

I volunteer at a free clinic and might get a LOR from a nurse who has a BSN there because I work closely with this nurse. Can I get a physician in the clinic to cosign this letter? Will it be stronger letter because the physician co-signed it or will medical schools know anyway that the nurse with the BSN wrote it and the physician co-signed it?

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[LizzyM]

Just have the nurse's signature. The doctor's signature doesn't add much given that it is going to be another letter that tells us that you are a nice person who works hard and is cheerful and well liked by one and all, that you are curious, a self-starter, self-effacing and a team player. 😴

 

[Chromium Surfer]

Just have the nurse's signature. The doctor's signature doesn't add much given that it is going to be another letter that tells us that you are a nice person who works hard and is cheerful and well liked by one and all, that you are curious, a self-starter, self-effacing and a team player. 😴

😕 So there is truly no reason to get a volunteer coordinator letter even if they know you well? I thought part of the reasons med schools want LOR's is to see the other soft characteristics of individuals, it would seem that volunteer coordinators would be in a particularly advantageous vantage point to observe and share this with adcoms.

 

[gyngyn]

😕 So there is truly no reason to get a volunteer coordinator letter even if they know you well? I thought part of the reasons med schools want LOR's is to see the other soft characteristics of individuals, it would seem that volunteer coordinators would be in a particularly advantageous vantage point to observe and share this with adcoms.

These letters do not add to the application. They are uniformly, blandly positive. We cannot expect an honest, insightful revealing analysis of the core characteristics from a volunteer coordinator. A physician signature does nothing to improve it. This is even less persuasive than the "shadowing letter" that we wish we never had to see again.

 

[alladots]

Just have the nurse's signature. The doctor's signature doesn't add much given that it is going to be another letter that tells us that you are a nice person who works hard and is cheerful and well liked by one and all, that you are curious, a self-starter, self-effacing and a team player. 😴

These letters do not add to the application. They are uniformly, blandly positive. We cannot expect an honest, insightful revealing analysis of the core characteristics from a volunteer coordinator.

I thought one was expected to have a volunteer coordinator and physician letter. Is this not the case? Then I probably won't bother with the letter. It is one of my main experiences (probably going to write mainly about this in my PS if that makes any difference).

 

[gyngyn]

I thought one was expected to have a volunteer coordinator and physician letter. Is this not the case? Then I probably won't bother with the letter. It is one of my main experiences (probably going to write mainly about this in my PS if that makes any difference).

Shadowing letters are pure fluff!

 

[Pusheen]

These letters do not add to the application. They are uniformly, blandly positive. We cannot expect an honest, insightful revealing analysis of the core characteristics from a volunteer coordinator.

Does this apply to supervisors for meaningful AMCAS activities? Many schools seem to want letters from these activities.

What would be alternative to supervisor letters, aside from professors and mentors from school?

 

[LizzyM]

99% of the letters are not valuable. You need them but there is little point in wasting the time of a co-signer.
If a school or pre-med committee specifically asks for such a letter then get one but otherwise letters from faculty who know you well are more helpful.

 

[alladots]

Does this apply to supervisors for meaningful AMCAS activities? Many schools seem to want letters from these activities.

What would be alternative to supervisor letters, aside from professors and mentors from school?

I'm wondering about this too. Free clinic volunteering is the focus of my app. Probably will be marked MM and will likely write about it in my PS.

 

[alladots]

99% of the letters are not valuable. You need them but there is little point in wasting the time of a co-signer.
If a school or pre-med committee specifically asks for such a letter then get one but otherwise letters from faculty who know you well are more helpful.

My pre-med committee did not ask for such a letter. Should I just stick to professor letter of recommendations and PI letter of recommendations?

 

[Pusheen]

I'm wondering about this too. Free clinic volunteering is the focus of my app. Probably will be marked MM and will likely write about it in my PS.

I personally would get a letter from the nurse and not have the doctor sign. I'm assuming this nurse knows you well enough to write something unique and personal

 

[gyngyn]

Does this apply to supervisors for meaningful AMCAS activities? Many schools seem to want letters from these activities.

What would be alternative to supervisor letters, aside from professors and mentors from school?

I'm wondering about this too. Free clinic volunteering is the focus of my app. Probably will be marked MM and will likely write about it in my PS.

My pre-med committee did not ask for such a letter. Should I just stick to professor letter of recommendations and PI letter of recommendations?

There are only three MD schools (that I am aware of) that request a "clinical" letter. The letter does not have to be from a physician, though. Many undergrad committees seem to require these letters as a way to insure that you get some form of clinical experience.
If your PI happens to be a physician, no problem.
If your professor happens to be a physician, no problem.

The typical "physician letter" is a shadowing experience...completely useless.

 

[Pusheen]

There are only three MD schools (that I am aware of) that request a "clinical" letter. The letter does not have to be from a physician, though. Many undergrad committees seem to require these letters as a way to insure that you get some form of clinical experience.
If your PI happens to be a physician, no problem.
If your professor happens to be a physician, no problem.

The typical "physician letter" is a shadowing experience...completely useless.

Oh ok, I wasn't talking about a clinical letter. I thought you were referring to ANY volunteer supervisor letter as being unhelpful.

 

[alladots]

There are only three MD schools (that I am aware of) that request a "clinical" letter. The letter does not have to be from a physician, though. Many undergrad committees seem to require these letters as a way to insure that you get some form of clinical experience.
If your PI happens to be a physician, no problem.
If your professor happens to be a physician, no problem.

The typical "physician letter" is a shadowing experience...completely useless.

Ok thanks. Do you think it will be an issue if I don't include a letter from any volunteer experience (just sticking to professor and PI letters) even though I have been volunteering at the clinic for a few years? As mentioned above it will also be a main part of my app (PS and will mark it MM). I have heard it's "weird" to not have a letter from an experience where you were involved in for a long time.

 

[gyngyn]

Oh ok, I wasn't talking about a clinical letter. I thought you were referring to ANY volunteer supervisor letter as being unhelpful.

This is also true.
It doesn't mean that a volunteer experience cannot be an MM.

 

[gyngyn]

Ok thanks. Do you think it will be an issue if I don't include a letter from any volunteer experience (just sticking to professor and PI letters) even though I have been volunteering at the clinic for a few years? As mentioned above it will also be a main part of my app (PS and will mark it MM). I have heard it's "weird" to not have a letter from an experience where you were involved in for a long time.

No problem!

 

[Pusheen]

This is also true.
It doesn't mean that a volunteer experience cannot be an MM.

Interesting. If you don't mind me asking, what letters are valuable, aside from the obvious professor letters?

 

[alladots]

Thanks @gyngyn and @LizzyM I won't be wasting your time with this letter. 🙂

 

[gyngyn]

Interesting. If you don't mind me asking, what letters are valuable, aside from the obvious professor letters?

Letters from people who have a broad sample of experience of candidates for the degree.

 

[alladots]

Letters from people who have a broad sample of experience of candidates for the degree.

Wait I have one more question. I have also seen a few medical schools put it on their websites that such letters are highly recommended. Do you think not having a letter from a volunteer experience is going to hold me back at these schools?

 

[gyngyn]

Wait I have one more question. I have also seen a few medical schools put it on their websites that such letters are highly recommended. Do you think not having a letter from a volunteer experience is going to hold me back at these schools?

If they are asking for them, have at it!
Which schools?

 

[Pusheen]

Letters from significant, worthwhile, or substantial functions in an academic, research, clinical, or volunteer setting. The issue is that most applicants do not have the kind of indepth relationship and/or experience that would fulfill this criteria. Therefore, having additional letters do not add to the application

So the real issue is applicants getting bland letters, not necessarily getting letters from activities in general. Do too many letters make the applicant look worse, or have no effect?

 

[alladots]

If they are asking for them, have at it!
Which schools?

I didn't compile a list yet but I have seen it when I was doing some random searches. I'll try to come up with a list sometime tonight/tomorrow and get back to you.

 

[gyngyn]

So the real issue is applicants getting bland letters, not necessarily getting letters from activities in general. Do too many letters make the applicant look worse, or have no effect?

A long series of useless letters makes you look worse, not better.

 

[gyngyn]

They can as it can raise the question what other weakness is the applicant trying to bolster

I'll take it further, I have never seen a applicant with 10 LOE's that we wanted to interview (even MSTP).

 

[Pusheen]

You need to realize that most letters, whether physician, professor, or whomever, tend to be "fluff." That is, they may write a strong LOR or letter of recommendation. Adcoms arent looking for recommendation as much as the LOE or letter of evaluation. As I have said repeatedly here (in multiple threads) the vast majority of applicants have short, fairly mundane shadowing experiences and get the same in letters. Frankly, most students have fairly uninspired letters from professors who they may have had just a classroom relationship. In short, most writers tend not to know the applicants all that well and the letters show it. While schools may ask for these letters, what they tend to get is fluff or at least something pretty uninspired. Having a really outstanding letter from any writer is showing evidence of: 1)being in a situation, where they can know the applicant well; 2) providing a critical evaluation of the applicant; and 3) writing a compelling recommendation, is a minority, perhaps 5%. Another 25% are excellent in providing an adcom with good information on the candidate. The vast majority are just glowing and pretty uninformative for an adcom. Almost every letter says how good the candidate is but very few can show me any evidence why the writer has a connection to the applicant nor do they provide indepth insight.

BTW, all applicants should attached the AAMC letter guidelines when requesting an LOR

This is helpful to know. Why then do so many schools have required committees who barely know the applicant, or require a shadowing or clinical letter to get a committee letter in the first place? I didn't have this experience, but it seems common. I feel like a lot of undergrads and letter writers are pretty out of touch with what adcoms want.

 

[gyngyn]

This is helpful to know. Why then do so many schools have required committees who barely know the applicant, or require a shadowing or clinical letter to get a committee letter in the first place? I didn't have this experience, but it seems common. I feel like a lot of undergrads and letter writers are pretty out of touch with what adcoms want.

Some schools have amazing committee letters. Others, not so much...