Can I Make $350K Per Annum As An Oral Surgeon?

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osahon7

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Just wondering what my Pay Package is gonna be like after Dental School and Residency!!! Your response is highly needed! Thanks
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You should expect to make around 300 private practice first year out. 500+ corporate. By year 3 you should be well over 500 irrespective of your practice setting. The only caveat for the last statement is the academic setting. Even then, with a busy private clinic within the hospital, you should be making a good amount. There is no secret - OMS pays very well.
 
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Of all the posts about potential salary on this site, I can't believe this is the one that gets some legitimate answers. Come on guys, where are the typical "I love dentistry/surgery and would do it for minimum wage" responses that tend to accompany these financial posts?
 
Yes, you should be able to make around 300 first year out. I posted ADA specialty's average income a while ago and OMFS on average hits 400+. But it also depends on location of practice. I am sure you will do better moving to midwest rather than more saturated areas like California.

ADA 2015 report on specialty's average income

Table 3: Annual Net Income of Specialists in Private Practice, 2014

Type of Dentist Average
Oral and Maxillofacial Surgeons $413,410
Endodontists $325,840
Orthodontists and Dentofacial Orthopedists $301,760
Pediatric Dentists $347,310
Periodontists $257,960

Source: American Dental Association, Health Policy Institute, 2015 Survey of Dental Practice.
Copyright © 2015 American Dental Association.
 
Oral Surgeons make a lot of money. Why hide the truth? The ADA survey is bogus.

In my neck of the woods (California!) they make $5,000+ per day working the corporate jobs. Do the math.
 
endoaccess said:
Oral Surgeons make a lot of money. Why hide the truth? The ADA survey is bogus.

In my neck of the woods (California!) they make $5,000+ per day working the corporate jobs. Do the math.
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Is that a reason many OS or Endo new grads working for corporate especially pacific dental in California? I assume they line-up patients for them, they complete cases with low overhead for corporate, and then corporate can charge insurance under specialist fees. ADA reported net income after paying back overhead, liability insurance, and other costs and theses numbers still look good to me! In that case it would be easier for specialist to work in corporate or travel instead of opening their own shop especially in California.
 
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DDS360 said:
Yes, you should be able to make around 300 first year out. I posted ADA specialty's average income a while ago and OMFS on average hits 400+. But it also depends on location of practice. I am sure you will do better moving to midwest rather than more saturated areas like California.

ADA 2015 report on specialty's average income

Table 3: Annual Net Income of Specialists in Private Practice, 2014

Type of Dentist Average
Oral and Maxillofacial Surgeons $413,410
Endodontists $325,840
Orthodontists and Dentofacial Orthopedists $301,760
Pediatric Dentists $347,310
Periodontists $257,960

Source: American Dental Association, Health Policy Institute, 2015 Survey of Dental Practice.
Copyright © 2015 American Dental Association.
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Wow! Never knew the pedo guys earn so much
 
endoaccess said:
Oral Surgeons make a lot of money. Why hide the truth? The ADA survey is bogus.

In my neck of the woods (California!) they make $5,000+ per day working the corporate jobs. Do the math.
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Yep. ~45% of adjusted production is what you are looking at. Average daily production should be around 10K and that is the low end.
 
DDS360 said:
Is that a reason many OS or Endo new grads working for corporate especially pacific dental in California? I assume they line-up patients for them, they complete cases with low overhead for corporate, and then corporate can charge insurance under specialist fees. ADA reported net income after paying back overhead, liability insurance, and other costs and theses numbers still look good to me! In that case it would be easier for specialist to work in corporate or travel instead of opening their own shop especially in California.
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Is the 350k common/reasonable for endo as well? Seem to hear multiple things. Do specialists tend to do better working for a corporation where patients are lined up than compared to their own private practice?
 
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Munks said:
Not gonna lie, after seeing the OS at my corporate office bust out a $40k production day, I definitely got a mild case of grass is greener.
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Yeah I saw one do a $35k day. Then you realize they get 50%. No doubt about it, OS are making BANK.
 
There's a lot of money in corporate because each office schedules a high volume of patients for a couple days per month and the specialists come in and crank it out and go to a different office the next day. This especially works well for OS because the procedures are so quick. It might be hard to be this productive in private practice on a steady basis but who knows, those guys don't advertise what they make.
 
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endoaccess said:
Sure $350k is reasonable for endo.

There's a lot of money in corporate because each office schedules a high volume of patients for a couple days per month and the specialists come in and crank it out and go to a different office the next day. This especially works well for OS because the procedures are so quick. It's nothing for an OS to do 20 third molar cases in a day if they aren't bogged down by post-ops and consults.

It might be hard to be this productive in private practice on a steady basis but who knows, those guys don't advertise what they make.
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First, 20 sets of thirds in a day doesn't happen in the real world. My partners and I have a huge practice that's been in place for 20+ years. 20 sets is possible, but unrealistic.

Here's the issue. If I decide to work for corporate and visit 4 different offices a week in my state doing third molars and implants, I would make a bigger boatload of money. That being said, it is completely unethical. So much that I hope guys who do this get sued for patient abandonment. The AAOMS has even put out a statement against doing this.

If I move on to the next town the next day, who handles my complications? A general dentist who doesn't know anything about what I did? Why are they capable of handling my post-ops, but not my surgery? Who handles the patient who gets an abscess that needs hospital admission? Who does the dentist dump a patient on if I leave town?

Who does my consults? What if the patient is a severe asthmatic and it isn't discussed and has a bronchospasm and dies under my sedation? Is that my fault? Who gets sued? Both I hope.

That's my rant. Making 350k as an OMS is pretty easy. Working for corporate, you can likely make more than double, probably triple that. It is terrible for patient care and completely unethical.
 
Dal
DaleDoback said:
First, 20 sets of thirds in a day doesn't happen in the real world. My partners and I have a huge practice that's been in place for 20+ years. 20 sets is possible, but unrealistic.

Here's the issue. If I decide to work for corporate and visit 4 different offices a week in my state doing third molars and implants, I would make a bigger boatload of money. That being said, it is completely unethical. So much that I hope guys who do this get sued for patient abandonment. The AAOMS has even put out a statement against doing this.

If I move on to the next town the next day, who handles my complications? A general dentist who doesn't know anything about what I did? Why are they capable of handling my post-ops, but not my surgery? Who handles the patient who gets an abscess that needs hospital admission? Who does the dentist dump a patient on if I leave town?

Who does my consults? What if the patient is a severe asthmatic and it isn't discussed and has a bronchospasm and dies under my sedation? Is that my fault? Who gets sued? Both I hope.

That's my rant. Making 350k as an OMS is pretty easy. Working for corporate, you can likely make more than double, probably triple that. It is terrible for patient care and completely unethical.
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@DaleDoback , would you say that 500K is typical for a private practice OMS? That seems to be the case.
 
RoseEndo said:
Even-if I am always suspicious of ADA reports, but numbers are close to what I have seen for both Endo and Oral Surgery. Having said that, I only work 4 days and my husband (OMFS) works 4 days from 8AM-3PM. I mentioned in another thread that traveling specialist can be a future because specialist encounters easier cases with less overhead, and GP office/corporate can bill cases under specialist to get higher fees, for instance RCT and build-up claimed under Endodontist. It also depends on location. My past co-residents in Texas hit 400-450+ every year and they are doing very well. You see traveling specialists in more Saturated areas of country like California, but they still do well.

I always suggest pre-doc and residency applicants to focus less on money and more on what they enjoy the most in dentistry. After you get established, your priority changes to spend more time with your family and work only 3-4 days. Everyone will get there at some point.
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Are those 400 to 450+ plus on the higher end for endo? Is that being done as associates or independent contractors or are they owners?
 
endoaccess said:
Oral Surgeons make a lot of money. Why hide the truth? The ADA survey is bogus.

In my neck of the woods (California!) they make $5,000+ per day working the corporate jobs. Do the math.
Click to expand...
hey what's your source on this? i am curious thanks
 
Its obvious oral surgeons make good money-in the end though, its a tough path to get there and very few make it to the end. Money alone is not enough to get you all the way there. You need genuine interest in the specialty in terms of the procedures and scope.
I know many classmates who started out saying they wanted to do it at my school (nearly 15) and by 4th year (I'm currently a D4), there are just a few of us left (5).
 
OMFSer* said:
Its obvious oral surgeons make good money-in the end though, its a tough path to get there and very few make it to the end. Money alone is not enough to get you all the way there. You need genuine interest in the specialty in terms of the procedures and scope.
I know many classmates who started out saying they wanted to do it at my school (nearly 15) and by 4th year (I'm currently a D4), there are just a few of us left (5).
Click to expand...
“Tough path” says a D4 who hasn’t experienced the absolute hell of OMFS residency. I agree though, money alone is not adequate motivation. I truly love the specialty, but have been seriously tempted to quit on multiple occasions because of how awful training is
 
Overinflated salary figures. Many recent grads seeing contracts in the 250-300k range in major cities. Boonies will for sure be the higher end income earners. The corporate jobs are not as easy to come by as you may thing and unfortunately do have their own drawbacks. Ultimately, never choose a specialty simply based on potential income, but sure, it'll play a part in the decision making.

Now in my 5th year of residency, it's a grind. Well worth it, though. Good luck!
 
All the figures above are just barely enough money to get by and live comfortably...that’s all that matters right?
 
avangusva said:
Overinflated salary figures. Many recent grads seeing contracts in the 250-300k range in major cities. Boonies will for sure be the higher end income earners. The corporate jobs are not as easy to come by as you may thing and unfortunately do have their own drawbacks. Ultimately, never choose a specialty simply based on potential income, but sure, it'll play a part in the decision making.

Now in my 5th year of residency, it's a grind. Well worth it, though. Good luck!
Click to expand...

Is there a path to make a lot more after x years?
 
DaleDoback said:
Here's the issue. If I decide to work for corporate and visit 4 different offices a week in my state doing third molars and implants, I would make a bigger boatload of money. That being said, it is completely unethical. So much that I hope guys who do this get sued for patient abandonment. The AAOMS has even put out a statement against doing this.

If I move on to the next town the next day, who handles my complications? A general dentist who doesn't know anything about what I did? Why are they capable of handling my post-ops, but not my surgery? Who handles the patient who gets an abscess that needs hospital admission? Who does the dentist dump a patient on if I leave town?

Who does my consults? What if the patient is a severe asthmatic and it isn't discussed and has a bronchospasm and dies under my sedation? Is that my fault? Who gets sued? Both I hope.

It is terrible for patient care and completely unethical.
Click to expand...

With all due respect I disagree with the general notion that an OMFS working for a corporate practice is "unethical." Corporate dentistry gets a bad rap but It's all about how it is setup and the individual surgeon. No difference if you're an unethical surgeon/owner of your own practice not doing appropriate preop evaluations and follow up. I previously worked in the corporate setting and did my own consults, follow ups, and on a few occasions had to come in to the office to see an emergency. I agree with you that surgeons should be responsible for their own follow ups with appropriate patient management and have coverage for patients when out of town as well. You wouldn't expect a primary care physician to see follow up for a cholecystectomy/appendectomy patient postop.

There's no doubt corporate dentistry has its perks. My previous corporate job was great. They ordered any instrument/material I wanted. I had great autonomy when it came to treatment plans and had a solid team. We ran regular emergency scenarios and practiced safe anesthesia. It was convenient for patients not having to travel to another office or if there was a patient next door getting a filling or hygiene who needed a consultation. It's also nice not having to worry about computer issues/equipment failures when you have the resources of a larger company. I think the future is in corporate dentistry.

However, that being said I currently work in a surgical (noncorporate) private practice and there's nothing like working in a setting where everyone is surgically oriented and "speaks the same language." There's really pros and cons to each but as long as the practitioner can care for patients in a safe and moral environment that is what matters IMO.
 
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