Can I match into EM at this point?

[Poit]

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Long story short: I shadowed an EM doc and I'm definitely interested in it, but I'm already halfway through M3 with no ECs for EM, when I've heard that admissions is more heavily weighted towards this than other specialties. What can I do at this point to increase my odds of matching, and how likely is it that I can?

Step 1: 233
M3 grades: average
Research experience: stronger than average
ECs: FM interest group, volunteered to interview med school applicants

 

[NeurologyHopeful2018]

Its all about the SLOE. You can have 210 Steps but upper 1/3 ranking on SLOEs will carry you to top candidate.

 

[whatisthisstuff]

You should be just fine.

ECs are not going to make the difference in whether or not you match/not. While EM might care about this stuff more (I don't really know) than other specialties, thats just because most other specialties couldn't care less. EM tends to be about away rotations and letters >> everything else. Your numbers are solid. You will want to do well on Step 2 as apparently EM likes that more than most. I don't think there is anything at this point that would put you at a disadvantage from the large majority of eventual other EM applicants. This is an example of SDN neuroticism.

 

[Poit]

You should be just fine.

ECs are not going to make the difference in whether or not you match/not. While EM might care about this stuff more (I don't really know) than other specialties, thats just because most other specialties couldn't care less. EM tends to be about away rotations and letters >> everything else. Your numbers are solid. You will want to do well on Step 2 as apparently EM likes that more than most. I don't think there is anything at this point that would put you at a disadvantage from the large majority of eventual other EM applicants. This is an example of SDN neuroticism.

I appreciate your post, but is the last line really necessary/accurate? Maybe I'm still in med school admission mode, where ECs can make/break you, but I've heard from many people than ER is getting pretty competitive, and places more value on longer-term, EC-backed interest. It sounds like this won't count against me, but I really don't think this is the "OMG I got an A- in O Chem, how will I ever become a doctor now!" sdn neuroticism. I'm just wanting to know what the best course of action is from here.

Edit: I'm thinking the title I gave this thread comes across as a bit neurotic.

 

[IMApplicant18]

Poit - you are misinformed. SLOE rules the day - as long as you PASS the boards above a minimal threshold - they determine if you match or not.

 

[Psai]

I appreciate your post, but is the last line really necessary/accurate? Maybe I'm still in med school admission mode, where ECs can make/break you, but I've heard from many people than ER is getting pretty competitive, and places more value on longer-term, EC-backed interest. It sounds like this won't count against me, but I really don't think this is the "OMG I got an A- in O Chem, how will I ever become a doctor now!" sdn neuroticism. I'm just wanting to know what the best course of action is from here.

Edit: I'm thinking the title I gave this thread comes across as a bit neurotic.

No one cares about ecs

 

[Redpancreas]

Long story short: I shadowed an EM doc and I'm definitely interested in it, but I'm already halfway through M3 with no ECs for EM, when I've heard that admissions is more heavily weighted towards this than other specialties. What can I do at this point to increase my odds of matching, and how likely is it that I can?

Step 1: 233
M3 grades: average
Research experience: stronger than average
ECs: FM interest group, volunteered to interview med school applicants

Absolutely. If you haven’t done your elective switch it to EM so you’re not going into your EM stuff cold. Then once you schedule 4th year, move stuff so that your Step 2 stuff comes first, followed by EM months to obtain your SLOEs. Bad News is there’s a lot of work to be done. Good News is its all ahead of you and within reach. Step 2 and SLOEs are the biggest game changers.

Year 1/2 grades: tier 3 factor, sounds like you’re average
Step 1: tier 2 factor, you’re average

——-Ahead of you:

LOR/SLOEs/STEP2/Video Exam all of which are important.

2/3rds of your cake is still to be baked and the third that is complete is right where the average MATCHED EM Applicant is. If you want emergency, start now and don’t look back. Otherwise, maybe you didn’t really want it. I had this idea at the same point as you and at the end of the day realized I preferred IM but both are obviously great fields.

 

[hallowmann]

...It sounds like this won't count against me, but I really don't think this is the "OMG I got an A- in O Chem, how will I ever become a doctor now!" sdn neuroticism...

And you'd be wrong. Listen to the other people in the thread.

 

[Psai]

Absolutely. If you haven’t done your elective switch it to EM so you’re not going into your EM stuff cold. Then once you schedule 4th year, move stuff so that your Step 2 stuff comes first, followed by EM months to obtain your SLOEs. Bad News is there’s a lot of work to be done. Good News is its all ahead of you and within reach. Step 2 and SLOEs are the biggest game changers.

Year 1/2 grades: tier 3 factor, sounds like you’re average
Step 1: tier 2 factor, you’re average

——-Ahead of you:

LOR/SLOEs/STEP2/Video Exam all of which are important.

2/3rds of your cake is still to be baked and the third that is complete is right where the average MATCHED EM Applicant is. If you want emergency, start now and don’t look back. Otherwise, maybe you didn’t really want it. I had this idea at the same point as you and at the end of the day realized I preferred IM but both are obviously great fields.

They only care about sloe and step. Thats literally it.

 

[Redpancreas]

They only care about sloe and step. Thats literally it.

I’ve always wondered what LORs mean when they have SLOEs. I guess no one knows what the SVI means but I’m guessing it may have a grain of salt behind it given it’s the first year.

 

[Keladry]

I’ve always wondered what LORs mean when they have SLOEs. I guess no one knows what the SVI means but I’m guessing it may have a grain of salt behind it given it’s the first year.

From what I've heard from my home department/on the interview trail - LORs mean almost nothing (edit - as opposed to SLOEs, which mean almost everything). SVI means actually nothing. A few PDs said they watched the videos but none said it influenced their decisions of who to invite.

 

[rbnsafsadgf]

You can match in EM. You'll need to apply broadly if you are an average applicant but should match (>90% probability based on your step score).

Join your school's EM interest group ASAP and get an adviser in EM.

Look at the NRMP Charting Outcomes data.

 

[deleted245139]

They only care about sloe and step. Thats literally it.

No.... That's not it.
Yes, factors heavily, but I can assure you the application is vetted heavily... ECs DO matter. Are they make or break? No. Do they help sub-stratify candidates? Absolutely.

 

[Poit]

I could say the same to you.

And you'd be wrong. Listen to the other people in the thread.

 

[Poit]

Thanks. Helpful post.

Absolutely. If you haven’t done your elective switch it to EM so you’re not going into your EM stuff cold. Then once you schedule 4th year, move stuff so that your Step 2 stuff comes first, followed by EM months to obtain your SLOEs. Bad News is there’s a lot of work to be done. Good News is its all ahead of you and within reach. Step 2 and SLOEs are the biggest game changers.

Year 1/2 grades: tier 3 factor, sounds like you’re average
Step 1: tier 2 factor, you’re average

——-Ahead of you:

LOR/SLOEs/STEP2/Video Exam all of which are important.

2/3rds of your cake is still to be baked and the third that is complete is right where the average MATCHED EM Applicant is. If you want emergency, start now and don’t look back. Otherwise, maybe you didn’t really want it. I had this idea at the same point as you and at the end of the day realized I preferred IM but both are obviously great fields.

 

[hallowmann]

I could say the same to you.

Maybe I should have clarified. Worrying that you'll have no chance at EM because you don't have EM ECs by the middle of 3rd year is absolutely the same as worrying about not getting into med school with that A- in OChem. That's the part that you're wrong about (I thought it was clear with me highlighting just that line).

I never said ECs don't matter at all. The truth is you have more than enough time to show interest in EM with ECs, aways, subI's etc. Its not like you're 1-2 mos into 4th year and realizing you want to change your target specialty.

Relax. Take a deep breath. You're not talking about ENT, Ophtho, Ortho, Derm, RadOnc, etc. You don't need a year of research to demonstrate that you like EM.

 

[Gray Fox]

Its all about the SLOE. You can have 210 Steps but upper 1/3 ranking on SLOEs will carry you to top candidate.

Nawww...SLOEs rule the day, but a top candidate has 240+ step, outstanding core grades, and very interesting ECs (you wouldn't believe what some cats have done).
Top tier applicants are derm level applicants, usually top 10% on SLOE, and A LOT of these applicants took a year off (dual degree, research, etc. I count 5 MD/PhD on the trail).

But the SLOE is weighted most heavily. Insanely so.

Do well on your home and away EM rotations. Study hard for Step 2. IF you do well, you'll be fine. Work hard though--some of these away rotaters are absolute BEASTS.

 

[Gray Fox]

They only care about sloe and step. Thats literally it.

For competitive programs, this is false, per multiple PDs and interviewers.

Lot or misinfo on here: Exemplary LOR from high level player is super helpful -- my buddy got a letter from the chair? Or director? Of another field and told me that it was brought up in almost every interview in a positive way

 

[Tenk]

EM matching in a nutshell:

Most important: STEPs and SLOE. The step reason is obvious. SLOE actually encompasses a lot. It’s based off your knowledge, work ethic, and personality match to the EM community. This is why it carries so much weight. We are an ultrachill specialty and we don’t like lazy or annoying people working alongside us.

Medium importance: clinical grades, connections, EM research. These things will help you but won’t make or break you (unless really bad). Best connection you can make is with PDs.

Least important: nonclinical grades, non EM research, ECs. These are not that important and nothing to fuss over.

OP: your step is good. Don’t worry about not having a whole lot of EM ECs. This should be your priority list:

1) start planning your aways for fourth year ahead of time so when eras opens you will be good to go.
2) work really hard in your aways to get great SLOEs.
3) in the meantime meet with your local PD and become BFFs. Contact their secretary and schedule an actual meeting like an adult. Dress nice and show up early, it will show you are serious. PDs get a lot of smoke blown up their ass so it’s nice to have students you can rely upon. Explain your situation and look for any way to get involved with their department. Even if it’s nothing big, it will help get you in the cool kids club.
4) continue working hard third year and keep your grades up.
5) study hard and destroy STEP 2.
6) apply broadly to a lot of different programs and program types.
7) don’t be socially weird or lazy.

If you do all that I don’t see any reason you wouldn’t match EM. Good luck.

 

[jw3600]

EM matching in a nutshell:

Most important: STEPs and SLOE. The step reason is obvious. SLOE actually encompasses a lot. It’s based off your knowledge, work ethic, and personality match to the EM community. This is why it carries so much weight. We are an ultrachill specialty and we don’t like lazy or annoying people working alongside us.

Medium importance: clinical grades, connections, EM research. These things will help you but won’t make or break you. Best connection you can make is with PDs.

Least important: nonclinical grades, non EM research, ECs. These are not that important and nothing to fuss over.

OP: your step is good. Don’t worry about not having a whole lot of EM ECs. This should be your priority list:

1) start planning your aways for fourth year ahead of time so when eras opens you will be good to go.
2) work really hard in your aways to get great SLOEs.
3) in the meantime meet with your local PD and become BFFs. Contact their secretary and schedule an actual meeting like an adult. Dress nice and show up early, it will show you are serious. PDs get a lot of smoke blown up their ass so it’s nice to have students you can rely upon. Explain your situation and look for any way to get involved with their department. Even if it’s nothing big, it will help get you in the cool kids club.
4) continue working hard third year and keep your grades up.
5) study hard and destroy STEP 2.
6) apply broadly to a lot of different programs and program types.
7) don’t be socially weird or lazy.

If you do all that I don’t see any reason you wouldn’t match EM. Good luck.

Good post. I’d probably bicker that dedication to EM involvement prior or during medical school is more like medium importance and Em research is more like least; literally no one I’ve talked to on the trail has any significant EM research.
Otherwise this is a good blue print for matching acgme EM.

 

[Gray Fox]

Good post. I’d probably bicker that dedication to EM involvement prior or during medical school is more like medium importance and Em research is more like least; literally no one I’ve talked to on the trail has any significant EM research.
Otherwise this is a good blue print for matching acgme EM.

And literally everyone on the interview trail had significant research experience (honestly, i prob had least), and as a group, we talked and shared a lot (cuz we're neurotic). Even popular county programs were asking about how we could help them be bigger players/more influential in the EM research world. Otherwise, I agree, I think EM involvement should be medium importance.

 

[Poit]

EM matching in a nutshell:

Most important: STEPs and SLOE. The step reason is obvious. SLOE actually encompasses a lot. It’s based off your knowledge, work ethic, and personality match to the EM community. This is why it carries so much weight. We are an ultrachill specialty and we don’t like lazy or annoying people working alongside us.

Medium importance: clinical grades, connections, EM research. These things will help you but won’t make or break you. Best connection you can make is with PDs.

Least important: nonclinical grades, non EM research, ECs. These are not that important and nothing to fuss over.

OP: your step is good. Don’t worry about not having a whole lot of EM ECs. This should be your priority list:

1) start planning your aways for fourth year ahead of time so when eras opens you will be good to go.
2) work really hard in your aways to get great SLOEs.
3) in the meantime meet with your local PD and become BFFs. Contact their secretary and schedule an actual meeting like an adult. Dress nice and show up early, it will show you are serious. PDs get a lot of smoke blown up their ass so it’s nice to have students you can rely upon. Explain your situation and look for any way to get involved with their department. Even if it’s nothing big, it will help get you in the cool kids club.
4) continue working hard third year and keep your grades up.
5) study hard and destroy STEP 2.
6) apply broadly to a lot of different programs and program types.
7) don’t be socially weird or lazy.

If you do all that I don’t see any reason you wouldn’t match EM. Good luck.

Most helpful post. Thanks.

 

[jw3600]

And literally everyone on the interview trail had significant research experience (honestly, i prob had least), and as a group, we talked and shared a lot (cuz we're neurotic). Even popular county programs were asking about how we could help them be bigger players/more influential in the EM research world. Otherwise, I agree, I think EM involvement should be medium importance.

Specifically EM research?

 

[Tenk]

Good post. I’d probably bicker that dedication to EM involvement prior or during medical school is more like medium importance and Em research is more like least; literally no one I’ve talked to on the trail has any significant EM research.
Otherwise this is a good blue print for matching acgme EM.

Depends on the quality and type of programs you are interviewing at. When I was on the trail tons of people had research but I was interviewing at some well known programs. Also, if nobody else has research that’s even better for the person who does. Remember, this is a competition to stand out to a program as someone who is better than the other applicants. Also, keep in mind in order for programs to remain accredited, they need scholarly projects on the regular. A PD may latch onto someone interested in research in a research dry program because it will benefit the program. Lots of different pros for doing research, almost no cons other than it takes up time.

 

[Tenk]

Most helpful post. Thanks.

Sure. Good luck!

 

[valarmorghulis1]

Like everyone has said, SLOES are everything. I had zero EM ECs, (only one research project that I got into during MS3 but no pubs).
Had ****ty step 1 (high 210s) but awesome step 2 (high 250s). SLOES were HP/H/H. Got 19 interviews, 4 of those being top powerhouse EM programs