Can I match into IM or EM if I am an "average" student without ECs??

[CarlosKleiber]

---

Members don't see this ad.

Hello - I want to match into IM or EM. I am currently an M1 and passed all my courses with a middle-of-the pack ranking amongst all my classmates at a public MD school. Say I continue this trend and is a middle-of-the-pack 50th percentile average student in my pre-clinical and clinical years, along with an unremarkable average Step 1 and 2 scores - would I have trouble matching into IM or EM program?

I originally wanted to volunteer at a research lab this summer - but is feeling really burnt out and just want the summer off. Does not having any ECs on my ERAS application raise any red flags?? I really really want my last summer off and visit my family in Korea. Thanks everyone!

 

[GUH]

Middle of the class is fine for IM, especially at an MD school.

 

[CarlosKleiber]

Middle of the class is fine for IM, especially at an MD school.

Thanks for your reply. What about the fact that I have no ECs? I really feel burnt out by the schoolwork and want to use my free time to relax myself. Can I afford to take WHOLE summer off after my M1 year? I feel kind of guilty about this...I had originally planned to do research.

 

[Winged Scapula]

Thanks for your reply. What about the fact that I have no ECs? I really feel burnt out by the schoolwork and want to use my free time to relax myself. Can I afford to take WHOLE summer off after my M1 year? I feel kind of guilty about this...I had originally planned to do research.

You are thinking like a pre-med.

With rare exceptions, ECs are not important nor do they significantly influence residency matching.

 

[bakedbeans18]

You are thinking like a pre-med.

With rare exceptions, ECs are not important nor do they significantly influence residency matching.

Surely this is not true for research in medical school, especially if published...

please correct me if I'm wrong?

 

[CarlosKleiber]

You are thinking like a pre-med.

With rare exceptions, ECs are not important nor do they significantly influence residency matching.

So my Step 1 & 2 score and clinical grades are most important factors right? If I can do above-average on those, then I should have no problem matching into IM or EM with little to no ECs right? Also - I do have significant research before med school - and did a whole bunch of first-author presentation at conferences. I also did an Honors thesis in undergrad. I don't know if these experiences before medical school counts for anything.

 

[Daodejing]

Surely this is not true for research in medical school, especially if published...

please correct me if I'm wrong?

Correct. Research, especially published, is huge for competitive specialties and top tier IM, not sure about EM but probably the same applies.

So my Step 1 & 2 score and clinical grades are most important factors right? If I can do above-average on those, then I should have no problem matching into IM or EM with little to no ECs right? Also - I do have significant research before med school - and did a whole bunch of first-author presentation at conferences. I also did an Honors thesis in undergrad. I don't know if these experiences before medical school counts for anything.

Undergrad research is a +, especially if it's in the specialty you end up applying to. Honors thesis...meh. Anything you do during med school holds more weight than what you did prior. If you have good boards and scores, you should be fine to match to IM/EM. Just remember that you will have to work harder to appeal to upper tier programs, if they interest you at all.

 

[bakedbeans18]

Correct. Research, especially published, is huge for competitive specialties and top tier IM, not sure about EM but probably the same applies.



Undergrad research is a +, especially if it's in the specialty you end up applying to. Honors thesis...meh. Anything you do during med school holds more weight than what you did prior. If you have good boards and scores, you should be fine to match to IM/EM. Just remember that you will have to work harder to appeal to upper tier programs, if they interest you at all.

When you say 'top tier" IM, you're really talking about the big 4, right? UCSF MGH B&W JHU? Or would you say the same holds for programs like say, Columbia, Vanderbilt, UMich, Northwestern, UTSW? I'm worried I might not publish in medical school :/

 

[Daodejing]

When you say 'top tier" IM, you're really talking about the big 4, right? UCSF MGH B&W JHU? Or would you say the same holds for programs like say, Columbia, Vanderbilt, UMich, Northwestern, UTSW? I'm worried I might not publish in medical school :/

I'm by no means an expert, but all of those programs you mentioned seem solid in such a broad field as IM. Check out the Internal Med specific forum, if you're interested. Regardless, work as hard as you can and you'll have fewer doors close on you. Not every med student will publish, and it's definitely not easy to do so, but be proactive in finding opportunities at your school. It's relatively much easier to get a pub from clinical research than basic...it's also usually less of a time commitment.

 

[dyspareunia]

Surely this is not true for research in medical school, especially if published...

please correct me if I'm wrong?

An average med student won't be matching anywhere (top tier IM) or into anything (rad/onc, plastics, derm) that pubs are extremely important or necessary. So it's kind of a moot point.

 

[Petypet]

I originally wanted to volunteer at a research lab this summer - but is feeling really burnt out and just want the summer off. Does not having any ECs on my ERAS application raise any red flags?? I really really want my last summer off and visit my family in Korea. Thanks everyone!

Summer research isn't that stressful if you have a good mentor. You can work 40 hours/week and get published easily in a 12 week summer stint. Heck, make it 10 weeks and spend 2 weeks in Korea. Maybe winged is right that ECs don't matter, but having 3 publications (all first author), several presentations (mix of talks and posters), and obtaining travel grants should help at some point. If nothing else, it gives you something to talk about.

 

[235009]

As a US MD student the question isn't really whether you'll match but where when it comes to IM. For EM being average is perfectly fine as well but again the better you are the more choices you'll have with the caveat being that in EM the most desirable programs aren't in particularly desirable locations. Finally IM is becoming a lot more competitive than people think. You really have to have a solid above average application to match into programs well into the middle tier. A stellar application is required for the top tier programs and not just the "big four" that someone mentioned earlier which is a fabricated distinction no one makes.

 

[Winged Scapula]

Surely this is not true for research in medical school, especially if published...

please correct me if I'm wrong?

Research is not considered an EC generally; it's a separate category of activities.

The posters above are correct: it can be done during medical school and may be important at stronger programs, especially academic ones. But Step 1 should be your priority.

 

[Psai]

A cardiologist told us that to match IM, you just need to be alive and breathing.

 

[notbobtrustme]

A cardiologist told us that to match IM, you just need to be alive and breathing.

yea, that's probably true if you look at IM in aggregate. There are a LOT of programs out there and many of them are notorious IMG mills.

 

[Arkangeloid]

A cardiologist told us that to match IM, you just need to be alive and breathing.

What about sober? I've heard of some students at my school showing up inebriated to their residency interviews.

 

[Dr Lyss]

Whether you are content with "being in the middle" or not is up to you. You never know what you will end up in so it's always better to leave as many doors open but... You have to decide how much effort you are willing to put in.

When you interview for residency they will want to see what you did over the summer. Chilling at home visiting family is not usually an acceptable answer. Find something you can put on your CV in South Korea if you really want to go but doing nothing doesn't look very good, no matter what field you go into.

 

[bakedbeans18]

What about sober? I've heard of some students at my school showing up inebriated to their residency interviews.

Umm. How does that work? lol

 

[Kaputt]

What about sober? I've heard of some students at my school showing up inebriated to their residency interviews.

Sometimes I wonder if you're just making up all this crap you post. To get inebriated for a residency interview you have to be a hardcore alcoholic, considering most interviews start with breakfast.

Showing up hung over -- that's a different story. I've seen people drink a LOT at pre-interview dinners.

 

[Arkangeloid]

Sometimes I wonder if you're just making up all this crap you post. To get inebriated for a residency interview you have to be a hardcore alcoholic, considering most interviews start with breakfast.

Showing up hung over -- that's a different story. I've seen people drink a LOT at pre-interview dinners.

Sorry, "hung over" is what I meant. I dunno, it's just that all the people at my school talk about is drinking.

As for making stuff up, I wish I was making my problems up.

 

[auburnO5]

Sorry, "hung over" is what I meant. I dunno, it's just that all the people at my school talk about is drinking.

As for making stuff up, I wish I was making my problems up.

I drank at every one of my pre-interview dinners, and I think the applicants that abstained were looked at as weird by the residents (mostly because they were weird).

 

[Law2Doc]

I drank at every one of my pre-interview dinners, and I think the applicants that abstained were looked at as weird by the residents (mostly because they were weird).

Nothing wrong with drinking at the pre interview dinner if it's offered. The rule of thumb is you can drink if the guys hosting it are drinking. Drinking to the point you become hung over though is probably not a good idea. It's also not a good idea to drink something a lot harder than everyone else ( if everyone is sipping beer you don't order shots), or a lot more expensive than everyone else. (Everybody remembers the guy who ran up the bill ordering single malt scotch, and not in a good way.)

 

[auburnO5]

Nothing wrong with drinking at the pre interview dinner if it's offered. The rule of thumb is you can drink if the guys hosting it are drinking. Drinking to the point you become hung over though is probably not a good idea. It's also not a good idea to drink something a lot harder than everyone else ( if everyone is sipping beer you don't order shots), or a lot more expensive than everyone else. (Everybody remembers the guy who ran up the bill ordering single malt scotch, and not in a good way.)

Agreed. You would think these things would be common sense, yet I saw fellow applicants doing all of the things you mentioned. I was embarrassed for them.

 

[Law2Doc]

Agreed. You would think these things would be common sense, yet I saw fellow applicants doing all of the things you mentioned. I was embarrassed for them.

Yeah, there's usually someone who does this every season or two. Hopefully someone not that interested in the program.

 

[evilbooyaa]

Whether you are content with "being in the middle" or not is up to you. You never know what you will end up in so it's always better to leave as many doors open but... You have to decide how much effort you are willing to put in.

When you interview for residency they will want to see what you did over the summer. Chilling at home visiting family is not usually an acceptable answer. Find something you can put on your CV in South Korea if you really want to go but doing nothing doesn't look very good, no matter what field you go into.

For middle tier IM, it's fine.

Research (completely seaparate from ECs) is helpful for top of the line IM programs. I really don't think EM cares about research (like at all), but others can correct me if I'm wrong.

Research for undergrad counts if it resulted in publications, honors thesis probably doesn't matter though.