Can some good parts of a residency application make up for bad parts?

[ThreadMaker]

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Say you have an applicant who took two years extra to graduate and has average LORs but ended up getting a 240 on the usmle step 1 and had a good personal statement, would the usmle score and personal statement make up for the late graduation and average LOR's? I mean would the program take a chance and maybe interview the applicant?

BTW, I know that once the applicant gets invited for a interview the interview become the most important part of the application. I know that for competitive specialties there would be no chance of an interview but what about specialties such as medicine and psychiatry?

 

[SouthernSurgeon]

Say you have an applicant who took two years extra to graduate and has average LORs but ended up getting a 240 on the usmle step 1 and had a good personal statement, would the usmle score and personal statement make up for the late graduation and average LOR's? I mean would the program take a chance and maybe interview the applicant?

BTW, I know that once the applicant gets invited for a interview the interview become the most important part of the application. I know that for competitive specialties there would be no chance of an interview but what about specialties such as medicine and psychiatry?

No one will really care about the personal statement. I'd say it's 1 person in 100, tops, who has a unique enough story or strong enough writing skills to really have an application changing PS.

Without knowing more specifics about your application it would be impossible to tell you more. When you say it took two extra years to graduate...is this because you took a leave of absence, or because you failed coursework and had to remediate?

Why are your LORs "average"? That's actually a pretty big red flag to a program...

 

[Winged Scapula]

No one will really care about the personal statement. I'd say it's 1 person in 100, tops, who has a unique enough story or strong enough writing skills to really have an application changing PS.

Without knowing more specifics about your application it would be impossible to tell you more. When you say it took two extra years to graduate...is this because you took a leave of absence, or because you failed coursework and had to remediate?

Why are your LORs "average"? That's actually a pretty big red flag to a program...[/QUOTE]

True. Most LORs make you sound like you walk on water. An "average" one would imply that you are actually below average, IMHO.

Unfortunately, without knowing more about your reasons for taking 6 years to graduate its hard to assess. A 240 USMLE Step 1 score is hardly so stellar that it would mask any other deficiencies. It might get you interviews if programs only do a cursory first glance at applications, however.

 

[ThreadMaker]

Well I must admit that I don't actually have any LOR's yet. I did a one month rotation in the US and I got a pass. I'm just assuming if the doctors there wrote a LOR that it wouldn't be glowing. I was actually hoping to do a observership in the US just get some more clinical experience and maybe get better LORs.

 

[SouthernSurgeon]

Well I must admit that I don't actually have any LOR's yet. I did a one month rotation in the US and I got a pass. I'm just assuming if the doctors there wrote a LOR that it wouldn't be glowing. I was actually hoping to do a observership in the US just get some more clinical experience and maybe get better LORs.

Ok...

So this is kind of like unpeeling an onion. Each new layer makes me want to cry a little more.

If you want useful advice, you need to give clear and complete information about your application.

Now you've revealed that you are an IMG with minimal US clinical experience who took/is taking 6 years to complete med school.

You will have a tough time being a competitive applicant without something else compelling.

 

[ThreadMaker]

Well I'm an IMG currently doing a internship in my country (I'm a US citizen) and am also studying for the usmle. I plan on going back home and doing some observerships after i'm done here. So I guess the reason I'm not giving you complete information is because I still have a lot to do.

I was just asking the question as a hypothetical.

 

[Winged Scapula]

Ok, so...

- you're a US citizen
- you went to medical school abroad
- it will be assumed the above was because you couldn't get into a US school (correct or not)
- you took 6 years to graduate instead of 4
- you only did 1 US rotation
- your grade for that rotation was a Pass
- you have no US LORs
- you have not taken any of the USMLEs
- we don't know what field you are applying for or in what geographic location

You are asking us to predict the future.

The fact is that you have a tough road ahead of you. No one can tell you whether or not you will match or how your application will be received with so many unknowns.

 

[ThreadMaker]

I think we may be making this a little too complicated. I'm hoping to apply to Psychiatry when the time comes. What I was simply trying to ask is would a high usmle score such as more than 230, make up for some other deficiencies in the application? The average usmle score for psychiatry I believe was 216 so I was assuming that a high score would make one stand out and perhaps make up for some other deficiencies.

I'm sorry if I didn't explain myself clearly the first time.

 

[ThreadMaker]

Also I mean more than 230 on both step 1 and step 2 ck so that the PD's don't think that the high score is a fluke.

 

[Winged Scapula]

I think we may be making this a little too complicated. I'm hoping to apply to Psychiatry when the time comes. What I was simply trying to ask is would a high usmle score such as more than 230, make up for some other deficiencies in the application? The average usmle score for psychiatry I believe was 216 so I was assuming that a high score would make one stand out and perhaps make up for some other deficiencies.

Perhaps. My sense is that a single score, a snapshot of 1 day performance, does not obviate the other issues I raised above, the most glaring being the extended education (for which we still don't know the reason) which more accurately reflects long term performance. Even with an average of 216 for Psych, a 230-240 isn't going to blow anyone away.

All you can do is study as hard as you can, obtain the best score possible and see what happens.

 

[gutonc]

I think we may be making this a little too complicated. I'm hoping to apply to Psychiatry when the time comes. What I was simply trying to ask is would a high usmle score such as more than 230, make up for some other deficiencies in the application? The average usmle score for psychiatry I believe was 216 so I was assuming that a high score would make one stand out and perhaps make up for some other deficiencies.

I'm sorry if I didn't explain myself clearly the first time.

The answer is "maybe." Nobody can predict the future. And in general, a high Step score won't make up for an otherwise weak application, but it might get you through a first screen.

But your application has more red flags than a May Day march in Beijing. You need to be gunning for a 250 on all 3 of the Steps.

 

[ThreadMaker]

But your application has more red flags than a May Day march in Beijing. You need to be gunning for a 250 on all 3 of the Steps.

Because a 250+ would make up for the other deficiencies?

 

[ThreadMaker]

Also as for the reason as to why I spent two extra years in medical school it was because of two reasons, one my dad lost his job and we were dealing with money problems (I went to medical school after high school in a 6 year MD program, so I still needed my dad to support me) and two I was planning on getting married but that ran into problems as well. I know that these are pretty weak answers but it is what it is.

It's important to understand that I felt that even though my record isn't solid the most important parts of my residency application (usmle scores) have not yet had a red flag on them since I haven't taken them. That's why I made this thread to see if I could perhaps use them as a way of bouncing back so to speak.

I know that noone can predict the future but perhaps some educated guesses as to what my next steps should be?

 

[gutonc]

It's important to understand that I felt that even though my record isn't solid the most important parts of my residency application (usmle scores) have not yet had a red flag on them since I haven't taken them. That's why I made this thread to see if I could perhaps use them as a way of bouncing back so to speak.

USMLE scores are NOT the most important part of your app. They are the things that will get your app through the filters. And if that works out for you and you get an interview, they will be used to compare your app to those of similar quality. For instance, my (fellowship) program has an 8 item score (scale of 1-5 for each item) for ranking. So even a 250+ on your Steps will only boost your overall score by <15%. Every program is different in how they rank applicants but a composite score taking multiple aspects of your app into account is pretty typical.

 

[gutonc]

Because a 250+ would make up for the other deficiencies?

Read my post again.

 

[ThreadMaker]

All you can do is study as hard as you can, obtain the best score possible and see what happens.

I guess this is the bottom line although I would ask you all to pray for me. haha