Can you get the PhD in anything?

[premeddreamsgone]

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I know that the MD/PhD programs out there are usually for like academic medicine/teaching, and that the two sort of go hand in hand. But can you do like an MD/PhD with the PhD like on global health/development/something policy or similar in nature still in that 7 year track? Or the PhD usually reserved for still more of the hardcore science.

 

[Pagan FutureDoc]

Look into different schools and you will see different things.

 

[TheBiologist]

well, I know there is MD/MPH which is masters in public health

but I am also curious about this; like, what if you wanted to do MD/PhD in history or mathematics or something

 

[Pagan FutureDoc]

Links to relevant info at a few top schools

Johns Hopkins
http://www.hopkinsmedicine.org/mdphd/curriculum/

Harvard
http://www.hms.harvard.edu/md_phd/program/index.html

Yale
http://medicine.yale.edu/mdphd/admissions/faq.aspx

Duke
https://medschool.duke.edu/educatio...ng-program/about-mstp-program/non-traditional


Looking over these links you can see that both Duke and Yale do occasionally let students do the PhD outside medically relevant areas.
Harvard and Hopkins don't seem to indicate they have any exceptions (I might have missed it though)

Sorry I can't pull actual quotes from the pages, I'm on my phone.

 

[Lucca]

Several schools offer funded positions in the social sciences and humanities. I think the most well known of those are Yale, Harvard and UChicago, and UTMB. You may convince any program to let you do this, but how successful you will be will depend on how amenable the institution is to the suggestion. Whether or not this is for you is a separate question, but several MD/PhDs have followed this path, including the former head of the FDA, the chief of the Presidential Committee in Bioethics (who is also a military officer), several faculty members who still continue to do work in the humanities and social sciences, and, famously, many global health professionals who are epidemiologists, ethicists, anthropologists, historians, and public health experts.

 

[eteshoe]

I agree w/ the above points. Just wanted to state this: OP, getting a PhD isn't something to be taken too lightly - you should have a reason for pursuing the degree (e.g. some career goal). With that type of framework in mind, it quickly becomes clear that even in the most amenable institutions/situations, a PhD can't really be on "any topic". Also if you pursue a humanities sort of PhD, you will almost certainly take longer to finish than some of the more basic sciences (I mostly say this because I don't think I've seen anyone finish the PhD in 3 yrs - at least not recently).

 

[aldol16]

I agree w/ the above points. Just wanted to state this: OP, getting a PhD isn't something to be taken too lightly - you should have a reason for pursuing the degree (e.g. some career goal). With that type of framework in mind, it quickly becomes clear that even in the most amenable institutions/situations, a PhD can't really be on "any topic". Also if you pursue a humanities sort of PhD, you will almost certainly take longer to finish than some of the more basic sciences (I mostly say this because I don't think I've seen anyone finish the PhD in 3 yrs - at least not recently).

Come on, we all know the MD/PhD PhD years are far too short even for the sciences. Y'all are tryna condense what it takes us grad students 5-6 years to do into 3 years (and we're not lazy!) 😛

 

[eteshoe]

Come on, we all know the MD/PhD PhD years are far too short even for the sciences. Y'all are tryna condense what it takes us grad students 5-6 years to do into 3 years (and we're not lazy!) 😛

lol maybe but the avg at my school tends to be around 4 yrs yrs. A good deal finish in 5 yrs with the occasional 6 yrs. The last person to do a 3 yr 0ne was like a decade ago. Hell I'm pretty sure I'll stay for 5 since I won a fellowship and I'm in no real rush to get back to the clinic.

 

[Lucca]

Come on, we all know the MD/PhD PhD years are far too short even for the sciences. Y'all are tryna condense what it takes us grad students 5-6 years to do into 3 years (and we're not lazy!) 😛

Remember that MSTPs usually use med school to count for the grad school course requirements and that MD/PhDs don't have any responsibilities like teaching, TAing in fully
funded programs. How fast you get a PhD doesn't say anything about the quality of the PhD itself. Hell, I have some friends in undergrad with multiple first author papers who I honestly think don't really need to go to grad school to be competent and independent but of course will anyway. I'm sure they will hit the ground running and graduate in 3-4. There are also some
Md/PhDs who spend 6-8 years in the PhD...I remember seeing one at UCSF who was GS10
Lmao

 

[JustAPhD]

Remember that MSTPs usually use med school to count for the grad school course requirements and that MD/PhDs don't have any responsibilities like teaching, TAing in fully
funded programs. How fast you get a PhD doesn't say anything about the quality of the PhD itself. Hell, I have some friends in undergrad with multiple first author papers who I honestly think don't really need to go to grad school to be competent and independent but of course will anyway. I'm sure they will hit the ground running and graduate in 3-4. There are also some
Md/PhDs who spend 6-8 years in the PhD...I remember seeing one at UCSF who was GS10
Lmao

My old advisor told me once that he knew of a GS12 (!!!) at one of the other larger UCs. Insane. People in his class were getting their PhDs, doing a postdoc, and finding academic jobs before he even graduated.

 

[Lucca]

My old advisor told me once that he knew of a GS12 (!!!) at one of the other larger UCs. Insane. People in his class were getting their PhDs, doing a postdoc, and finding academic jobs before he even graduated.

makes me anxious just thinking about it lol

 

[eteshoe]

My old advisor told me once that he knew of a GS12 (!!!) at one of the other larger UCs. Insane. People in his class were getting their PhDs, doing a postdoc, and finding academic jobs before he even graduated.

Now that's insane

 

[baikal1]

lol maybe but the avg at my school tends to be around 4 yrs yrs. A good deal finish in 5 yrs with the occasional 6 yrs. The last person to do a 3 yr 0ne was like a decade ago. Hell I'm pretty sure I'll stay for 5 since I won a fellowship and I'm in no real rush to get back to the clinic.

I know that the MD/PhD programs out there are usually for like academic medicine/teaching, and that the two sort of go hand in hand. But can you do like an MD/PhD with the PhD like on global health/development/something policy or similar in nature still in that 7 year track? Or the PhD usually reserved for still more of the hardcore science.

A PhD is not "another degree". It's training you how to do research, and how you do research without supervision.

 

[Goro]

MD/PhD programs seems to be of two minds. One, like at my own grad school, the MD/PhDs did a thesis that was really more like a glorified MS. granted, this was world-class research, but still, they were out of the lab after three years and back in the clinic.

Other programs have the PhD part like any other PhD program...meaning if if takes you five years to do it, then so be it. I once briefly dated a woman who went to Baylor and had to do exactly that.

Remember that MSTPs usually use med school to count for the grad school course requirements and that MD/PhDs don't have any responsibilities like teaching, TAing in fully
funded programs. How fast you get a PhD doesn't say anything about the quality of the PhD itself. Hell, I have some friends in undergrad with multiple first author papers who I honestly think don't really need to go to grad school to be competent and independent but of course will anyway. I'm sure they will hit the ground running and graduate in 3-4. There are also some
Md/PhDs who spend 6-8 years in the PhD...I remember seeing one at UCSF who was GS10
Lmao

 

[Geo16]

I just wonder how students manage two degrees at the same time.
But at least now I know that we can earn PhD in anything we like, I can still pursue Earth Science..!!!

 

[JustAPhD]

I just wonder how students manage two degrees at the same time.
But at least now I know that we can earn PhD in anything we like, I can still pursue Earth Science..!!!

They don't really. The PhD research and any grad classes they may have to take are generally separate years from the MD work. And again, it comes down to your institution if they actually allow you to do your PhD in something non medically related (like Earth Sciences). At some schools, it won't even be a possibility.

 

[Geo16]

They don't really. The PhD research and any grad classes they may have to take are generally separate years from the MD work. And again, it comes down to your institution if they actually allow you to do your PhD in something non medically related (like Earth Sciences). At some schools, it won't even be a possibility.

Yeah, I kind of assumed that would happen. It'd be insane, handling med school curriculum meanwhile traveling to other campus to do research (or take graduate level courses).

This is just far from reality, but..
I should pursue PhD when I'm all done with med school or residency.. Do a part-time student perhaps?

 

[eteshoe]

A PhD is not "another degree". It's training you how to do research, and how you do research without supervision.

I mean that's true but you still receive a degree upon completion.

 

[eteshoe]

MD/PhD programs seems to be of two minds. One, like at my own grad school, the MD/PhDs did a thesis that was really more like a glorified MS. granted, this was world-class research, but still, they were out of the lab after three years and back in the clinic.

Other programs have the PhD part like any other PhD program...meaning if if takes you five years to do it, then so be it. I once briefly dated a woman who went to Baylor and had to do exactly that.

That's how my program tends to look at it.

 

[aldol16]

Remember that MSTPs usually use med school to count for the grad school course requirements and that MD/PhDs don't have any responsibilities like teaching, TAing in fully
funded programs. How fast you get a PhD doesn't say anything about the quality of the PhD itself. Hell, I have some friends in undergrad with multiple first author papers who I honestly think don't really need to go to grad school to be competent and independent but of course will anyway. I'm sure they will hit the ground running and graduate in 3-4. There are also some
Md/PhDs who spend 6-8 years in the PhD...I remember seeing one at UCSF who was GS10
Lmao

Yes, but TAing takes less work than you think (unless you get stuck in an upper-level course where you actually have to know your **** and study up on it). Lab TA is the best position out there - usually only took me 1-2 hours a week on top of the 3 hour lab period(s). Sure, there are fewer course requirements for MD/PhD students (depends on the PhD - if it's really closely allied with biomedical science, then you have almost no additional courses but if you're in, say, chemistry or biophysics, some programs will require several additional courses) but we only have to take courses for one year. It still takes us 4-5 years on top of that to complete our PhDs.

There are logistical limitations to how fast you can get a PhD without sacrificing quality of work - especially in a biological discipline where one has to wait for stuff to grow and incubate and everything. It's not as though you start at point A and there is a clear path with milestones leading to point B. It's more like you're at point A at the beginning of your PhD and you know you have to get to point B and point B is right in front of you but you have to circle the Earth to get to it from the other side. That's what most people don't understand about science PhD programs - most projects we start don't actually work! (It's not just a matter of coming up with a really good hypothesis - nature sometimes just won't be harnessed in the laboratory).

So 3-year PhDs are a rarity in the science academic world with the exception of MD/PhD students. I've never been to a defense by an MD/PhD candidate that matched the depth and breadth of work by PhD candidates - they simply didn't have enough time to do the work! I'm not saying that quantity of work attests to quality (hell, the Watson and Crick paper was just a few pages long) but doing a good job tying up all the loose ends in a project that does work takes a lot of time.

 

[aldol16]

My old advisor told me once that he knew of a GS12 (!!!) at one of the other larger UCs. Insane. People in his class were getting their PhDs, doing a postdoc, and finding academic jobs before he even graduated.

I know one PI whose graduate students routinely take a decade to graduate. And it's not because they're lazy.

 

[JustAPhD]

I know one PI whose graduate students routinely take a decade to graduate. And it's not because they're lazy.

Yikes.

 

[eteshoe]

I know one PI whose graduate students routinely take a decade to graduate. And it's not because they're lazy.

I know a few of the more "famous" PIs at my school that do the same thing (let's say overtly ambitious). IMO it really hurts the student more than helps since very few are willing to put up with another 5-6 yrs of postdoctoral training before looking for academic positions and even industry tends to be weary if one takes too long to complete their degree.

 

[aldol16]

I know a few of the more "famous" PIs at my school that do the same thing (let's say overtly ambitious). IMO it really hurts the student more than helps since very few are willing to put up with another 5-6 yrs of postdoctoral training before looking for academic positions and even industry tends to be weary if one takes too long to complete their degree.

Yeah, I think that some of those PIs are more self-centered than willing to help their students. From the PI's standpoint, it's beneficial for him/her to keep a talented graduate student around because the student can keep churning out good work without costing the PI too much in money or time. Getting a new graduate student entails training that student and there are no guarantees whether after training that student will be productive. From the graduate student's perspective, it's best for him/her to get out as quickly as possible so he/she can build a career in academia/industry. Because of this conflict, there is somewhat of a compromise where graduate programs generally take 5-6 years to complete - longer than medical or law degrees. But that has been creeping up year after year and now some PhD candidates are inching closer and closer to the decade mark.