Can you go back and do an internship/residency?

[DVMoftheFuture]

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Hey all! So I was recently accepted into vet school and I've been crunching some numbers to look at how much debt I'll be in and how long it will take to pay off. It doesn't seem like it makes financial sense to do an internship and/or residency directly out of school because I'll only be able to make minimal payments on my loans. However, I've always hoped to end up specializing and not stay in small animal GP for my entire career. With that in mind, I am wondering if it is possible to do an internship and/or residency later in a veterinary career. For example, could I do small animal GP for 10 years, pay off my debt, and then pursue an internship and/or residency in emergency medicine? Thanks!

(Apologies if this has already been asked. I tried a search, but I only really found general internship/residency info.)

 

[RedLauren]

There’s no age or time requirement on when you can do a residency. It’s kind of like undergrad - most people go right after high school but not everyone. I would imagine it’s easier to land a residency shortly after your 4VM because the connections you make during your clinical rotations typically end up being references for the residency / internship process. This is all just what I’ve heard from other people.

 

[SoFloGryffindor]

Also, most of my veterinary mentors advise against this. It may be really difficult to switch from earning a higher annual income to earning a resident's income.

 

[WhtsThFrequency]

Also, most of my veterinary mentors advise against this. It may be really difficult to switch from earning a higher annual income to earning a resident's income.

I can imagine. Going from, say 70-100k as an established vet to 25k as an intern? Rough to say the least, especially if you have a house, family, etc.

 

[pp9]

Also, most of my veterinary mentors advise against this. It may be really difficult to switch from earning a higher annual income to earning a resident's income.

This, and I've been advised that in it can be hard for a GP to stay relevant/competitive for certain fields you want to break into. My experience is with zoo medicine, so that may be different in emergency medicine. Also...it's probably not unlikely to just lose momentum after you graduate. From where I'm sitting now, the thought of trying to get back into something as physically/emotionally demanding as an internship/residency 10 years after graduation, being almost 40, sounds exhausting.

I would talk to emergency clinicians at your school and get their thoughts on it. @LetItSnow practices at an emergency clinic so he might have some input on this?

 

[WhtsThFrequency]

It's possible, and clinical experience can actually make you a more competitive applicant in certain specialties...but there's a sweet spot. After more than...I'd say around 3-4 years out, coming back to specialize gets progressively more difficult because you don't have the connections and you've become more "set in your ways" in your particular practices. Not to mention the huge financial hit you would take, as well as the schedule/workload change.

 

[finnickthedog]

You absolutely can, but as others have pointed out it's probably easier to do a residency right away if you know you want to do one for various reasons.

I've asked about this a bit, but my reasoning is more so that I'm just not sure that I'll know I want to specialize right out of school and I wanted to make sure the option was still on the table for me if I changed my mind 10 years later or something.

 

[LyraGardenia]

Here's an older thread that discusses this topic! Finding the right job after vet school (I had to hunt to find it so don't feel bad, I just knew it had been discussed *somewhere* before)

 

[allygator13]

As others have said, it is possible but may be more difficult. Though lots of our clinicians at school have told us that they practiced for a few years then went back to residency, so definitely not impossible. As far as money and loans, you are right that you won’t be making much of an impact during those 4 years, but hopefully the income you’ll make on the other side (though this is specialty-dependent of course) will make up for some of that lost time.

 

[KCgophervet]

Agreed with what others have said, but I think one of the key things if planning to do this route is maintaining contacts and a demonstrated commitment to the specialty you're pursuing. For example, if a residency committee sees two applications that have been in GP for awhile post-graduation, one has great letters of reference from board specialists in the field who have kept in regular contact and has been attending annual conferences in that specialty vs. one who has "just" been working GP and has boarded specialist letters from people who kind of remember her from 4 years ago in vet school... one of those applicants will probably be looked on much more favorably than the other.

That being said, I feel like things are getting more and more competitive as more people go the specialization route so the longer you wait potentially the more competitive the applications (and your competition) gets.

Personally, I wouldn't recommend it. If you know for sure you want to specialize, get the experience and contacts in vet school and come out the gate pursuing that goal. If you're not sure and would be okay going GP, then go GP with the knowledge that you may or may not be able to specialize later.

 

[orca2011]

I second everything that's been mentioned so far. One of my work colleagues is like uhh, 7 years out and applied through match this year and didn't match. Now, I obviously don't know the specifics of her application or anything like that so I don't know why things didn't work out (I do know she was going for a more competitive field just by # of spots available ). But it does make me wonder because we work at a hospital that has an established intern program so we stay pretty up to date on new studies and have a lot of collaboration between all specialties on a daily basis.

I personally keep going back and forth about going back to complete one (in derm). My main hold up is that there are some parts of ER that I like and I don't know if I want to take the income hit. I do try to maintain at least some contact with the local dermatologist here and may see if I can set up something a little more official (like a fake internship type thing) to fully determine if it's something I want to do. I also really was going to try to go to the conference this year but it's in Hawaii so not quite in the cards right now.

 

[pp9]

I second everything that's been mentioned so far. One of my work colleagues is like uhh, 7 years out and applied through match this year and didn't match. Now, I obviously don't know the specifics of her application or anything like that so I don't know why things didn't work out (I do know she was going for a more competitive field just by # of spots available ). But it does make me wonder because we work at a hospital that has an established intern program so we stay pretty up to date on new studies and have a lot of collaboration between all specialties on a daily basis.

I personally keep going back and forth about going back to complete one (in derm). My main hold up is that there are some parts of ER that I like and I don't know if I want to take the income hit. I do try to maintain at least some contact with the local dermatologist here and may see if I can set up something a little more official (like a fake internship type thing) to fully determine if it's something I want to do. I also really was going to try to go to the conference this year but it's in Hawaii so not quite in the cards right now.

Off topic, but the derm conference has had some great destinations. My roommate went when they held it at Disney, and now Hawaii?!

 

[orca2011]

Off topic, but the derm conference has had some great destinations. My roommate went when they held it at Disney, and now Hawaii?!

Right?? I really, really wanted to go, but I have a potential family trip to Ireland mid June and I just can't drop that money for two big trips (well, I could, but my credit card wouldn't be happy) when I'm potentially moving to a new apartment in the next month or so. If I wasn't doing the family trip, I'd sooo be off to Hawaii.

 

[JaynaAli]

Agreed with what others have said, but I think one of the key things if planning to do this route is maintaining contacts and a demonstrated commitment to the specialty you're pursuing. For example, if a residency committee sees two applications that have been in GP for awhile post-graduation, one has great letters of reference from board specialists in the field who have kept in regular contact and has been attending annual conferences in that specialty vs. one who has "just" been working GP and has boarded specialist letters from people who kind of remember her from 4 years ago in vet school... one of those applicants will probably be looked on much more favorably than the other.

That being said, I feel like things are getting more and more competitive as more people go the specialization route so the longer you wait potentially the more competitive the applications (and your competition) gets.

Personally, I wouldn't recommend it. If you know for sure you want to specialize, get the experience and contacts in vet school and come out the gate pursuing that goal. If you're not sure and would be okay going GP, then go GP with the knowledge that you may or may not be able to specialize later.

I agree with everyone, but especially this. My residency had the exact scenario she mentions in the first paragraph when we were interviewing applicants.

 

[KCgophervet]

I agree with everyone, but especially this. My residency had the exact scenario she mentions in the first paragraph when we were interviewing applicants.

(we did too)

 

[jmo1012]

It's possible for ECC, but it depends on what you're looking for. It will be mich, much harder to land an ECC academic program spot than a private practice one. Lots of pp's go unmatched and are looking for a good fit. You will almost certainly have to do either a rotating or ECC internship first before youd be remotely competitive for any of the residencies. Most residency committees are looking for letters from people who are actively working with you, can attest to who you are currently, and also have letters behind their names just fyi. Keeping in good contact with clinicians for school isn't going to be enough.

I personally can't imagine waiting to do this residency. There are certainly individual variations in other programs for other specialties that might make them more exhausting and challenging, but in my opinion, ECC is the hardest residency program. You will not work normal hours - you will work lots of weekends, swing shifts, overnights. You will work 12+ hour shifts regularly, many of them scheduled that way. After that shift, you will still be on call for ventilator cases, critically ill cases, post-arrest cases, and advice giving, on top of being on call for your own critically ill cases in the hospital. You will have credentialing requirements to complete, research and a paper to publish, rounds, journal clubs, and presentations to prepare for, and oh yeah, that whole thing called studying for boards. The demand of the residency is exhausting in a way that is different from the other programs (mostly related to the scheduling). You will spend a ton of time away from family and friends. My good friends are all my same year residents in other specialities and I still miss tons of things with them because of my hours (working evenings or weekends when people are hanging out, being off when everyone else is working).

Yes you'll also take a significant pay cut for 4-5 years, but I feel like that can potentially not be a big deal. I've know people who do that without it being a huge deal. I suppose it probably depends on what your expenses and financial committments look like. Probably a lot harder if you are the primary earner with kids, less terrible of you are single and just support yourself in a simple lifestyle.

Also for what it's worth, I've known a couple of people that worked ER for a few years at specialty hospitals with criticalists that didn't match :-/

 

[Ashgirl]

Hey all! So I was recently accepted into vet school and I've been crunching some numbers to look at how much debt I'll be in and how long it will take to pay off. It doesn't seem like it makes financial sense to do an internship and/or residency directly out of school because I'll only be able to make minimal payments on my loans. However, I've always hoped to end up specializing and not stay in small animal GP for my entire career. With that in mind, I am wondering if it is possible to do an internship and/or residency later in a veterinary career. For example, could I do small animal GP for 10 years, pay off my debt, and then pursue an internship and/or residency in emergency medicine? Thanks!

(Apologies if this has already been asked. I tried a search, but I only really found general internship/residency info.)

Ditto to what everyone has already said. It is definitely harder to go back after you are established in practice for various reasons.

One thing to think about is if you truly want to specialize. In emergency medicine, you have options! You can become an emergency doc without an internship right out of school (the option I am taking, as did @LetItSnow ), you can be an emergency doc with an internship (as one or two of my classmates are doing), or you can specialize and do the whole internship and residency thing and become a boarded criticalist (like jmo is doing).

 

[DVMoftheFuture]

Ditto to what everyone has already said. It is definitely harder to go back after you are established in practice for various reasons.

One thing to think about is if you truly want to specialize. In emergency medicine, you have options! You can become an emergency doc without an internship right out of school (the option I am taking, as did @LetItSnow ), you can be an emergency doc with an internship (as one or two of my classmates are doing), or you can specialize and do the whole internship and residency thing and become a boarded criticalist (like jmo is doing).

That's interesting. I hadn't been aware of that (although tbh I hadn't looked to much into it, as I'm aware there's a good chance my interests will change in vet school). Would you mind elaborating a bit? Is there an advantage to do the internship/residency thing as opposed to just going into emergency med right out of school? How do you get into emergency med without the internship/residency thing?

 

[DVMoftheFuture]

Thanks to everyone for the great replies! They were very helpful and informative! Looks like I'm going to have to decide if an internship/residency is something I want to do and commit to doing it right out of vet school. I appreciate all the help!

 

[Ashgirl]

That's interesting. I hadn't been aware of that (although tbh I hadn't looked to much into it, as I'm aware there's a good chance my interests will change in vet school). Would you mind elaborating a bit? Is there an advantage to do the internship/residency thing as opposed to just going into emergency med right out of school? How do you get into emergency med without the internship/residency thing?

So there are two main paths for ER. You can become an emergency vet (with or without an internship), or a fully boarded criticalist. As an emergency vet, you would be doing a lot of outpatient care (with some inpatient care, depending on your hospital), and plus/minus surgery (again, depending on your particular hospital). A boarded criticalist would theoretically (depending on where you go) be doing more inpatient/patients in ICU work and would be available for consultation for other services in case they have an inpatient that needs a lot of care/treatment.

For me, I shadowed both and discovered that I would rather be an ER vet than go the residency route. I've accepted an offer at a large emergency and specialty center right as I graduate and will not be pursuing an internship. For me, the pros of an internship (lots of experience, potentially good mentorship) could be found if I looked. I fully believe I will be getting a great mentorship and as for the experience thing? I'm okay if it takes me a little "longer" getting the caseload needed than someone else. The cons (working 80-100 + hours, treated like dirt, getting paid less than half that I will be getting paid), were not worth it if I wasn't going to pursue a residency. To me, anyway.